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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Hybrid Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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I HAVE FOUND THE ILLUSIVE MPG SWEET SPOT!


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146 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:10 AM

I just installed the logitech webcam driver on my laptop and will not be able to record (just monitor) as my old 10+ year old HP laptop won't support the logitech video software.

Me too.









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#22 OFFLINE   Jus-A-CMax

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

Its been mid 80s and my ambient temp actually touched 90 so yeah, lets settle this active grill shutters once and for all. Too many diverging opinions from the Engineers and the posters but I am glad ptjones and alike have the resources to try and figure this one out - these grill makes a big impact to the FE of the car.

 

Speaking of which, I think this ICE high mpg mode has it purpose. While imo, the P&G is still slightly superior since you are doing 2 regen cycles and saving gas there - the ICE High MPG will do a continuous burn of the gas throughout but where it has strong merit is the uphill gradient. There a long stretch going east on the 118 that is all upslope between 1st and Yosemite (the Gen knows this) and this mode is great for that stretch when it will recharge the batts high and speed just a tad above the 65mph. I have the numbers for one run that is from Oxnard to North Hollywood (~50 miles) with the ICE High MPG and I am just waiting for another job in Oxnard to run the same route with the P&G.

 

Such a fun car to drive and PLAY  :) 


Edited by Jus-A-CMax, 14 March 2013 - 11:48 AM.


#23 OFFLINE   mtb9153

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:32 PM

I'm going to try and interface my USB Logitech web cam with my MacBook Pro using Adobe On-Location software which in theory should allow me to capture live video feed onto my laptop hard drive. The only thing which might create a problem Is the length of the cable I will use to connect the webcam to my laptop inside the car. Stay tuned for more info. On a side note, I tried turning off the EV+ mode on my Max this morning. Drove down the street from my house about 2 miles to catch hiway 17 freeway. Almost immediately my mpg went from 40.3 to 43.2. To date since I bought my Max I've never got that high of an mpg reading for combined city and freeway driving with Ecodrive set to 60mph

#24 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:45 PM

Here are my observations from watching the active shutters on my C-Max for about 25 miles of driving with an ambient temperature of 89*F with no grill covers in place on fairly flat terrain.  I set up my webcam to monitor the shutters (would only fit through the lower grills) and set ETM to watch coolant temperature.  I ran about 15 miles or so at above 65 mph with spurts up to 80 mph.  Bottom line, my observations support ptjones tests.  It certainly would be better to record the shutters with commentary as to coolant temperature and speed during the test run but my laptop is too slow to support recording.

 

1) Turning on a/c opens the shutters. There appears to be no other contingent conditions.

 

2)  Below about  90*C coolant temperature the shutters remained closed except for 1).

 

3)  I did not observe speed alone affecting shutter position.  It would be beneficial to operate in city driving conditions to see if this still holds.

 

4)  Between about 90*C - 100*C the shutters could be in various stages of opening / closing.  I never saw a coolant temperature above 100*C.

 

5)  There appeared to be a time / temperature lag in opening / closing the shutters.  For example, sometimes when I reached 100*C, the shutters were not fully open. Many times when the coolant temperature was in the low 90*C and the shutters went fully closed. Most times I had to reach 95*C before the shutters would open and then the shutters would open to 1/2 way. So it wouldn't surprise me if the algorithm smooths the data and / or looks at rate of change and so forth so as not to continually change the position of the shutters.  I never saw a 3/4 shutter opening.

 

6)  Cruising below about 65 mph / low 90*C coolant temperature the shutters would remain closed. I noticed one time when the shutters opened to 1/4.   Also, below about 60 mph, I could not maintain coolant temperature above 90*C and the shutters remained closed.

 

7)  When the shutters would open / close (partially of fully), I would see a virtual immediate affect on coolant temperature.


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#25 OFFLINE   Jus-A-CMax

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:54 PM

Hey Plus 3, does using just the air flow (no A/C) effect the shutters? As you know, sometimes when you turn on the Climate, it automatically kicks in the AC and then I switch it off but leave the airflow on. Thanks for all the great research by the way - much appreciated  :) 


Edited by Jus-A-CMax, 14 March 2013 - 07:01 PM.


#26 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

Well, you can't think of everything.  I did not try it with just air flow only.  But I don't see why using the cabin blower would affect the shutter operation.  

 

Maybe MTB9153 can test it.  Although it only takes 5 minutes for me to tape the webcam and cable in place, I don't feel like trying it now.  



#27 OFFLINE   Hatchman

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:01 PM

Thanks for checking that out, Plus 3!  So they are controlled by coolant temp, well that and air conditioning.  Thanks!



#28 OFFLINE   Jus-A-CMax

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:13 PM

Well, you can't think of everything.  I did not try it with just air flow only.  But I don't see why using the cabin blower would affect the shutter operation.  

 

Maybe MTB9153 can test it.  Although it only takes 5 minutes for me to tape the webcam and cable in place, I don't feel like trying it now.  

No worries - thats an open question for the others then, thanks mate  :) 



#29 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:11 PM

Thanks Plus 3 for checking the shutters. For the record when I tested the shutters, they move in four steps starting at 190deg.F to 213deg.F or 6deg's per step. Most of my testing was done at 70mph were they went from closed to fully opened and back down. The shutters operate off the AC being on not the vent. I'm sure someone can try it out.

 

Plus 3 do you notice any MPG improvement at 89deg.F over 80 or 70deg.F? What kind of WT are you seeing Max?


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#30 OFFLINE   ceemax71

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:13 PM

If all else fails, read the manual. ;)

 

I got a 30 day subscription for the C-Max service publications (http://www.motorcraf...om/vdirs/SPubs/).

 

I found this in the workshop manual regarding the shutters:

 

Active Grille Shutter

The grille shutter actuator positions the grille shutters based on commands from the PCM. The grille shutter moves 90 degrees from fully closed to fully open and, based on the position commanded by the PCM, is set in 1 of 16 positions (approximately 6 degrees between positions).

 

During normal operation, the grille shutter may be partially to fully open when the engine is off depending on the ambient temperature. When the engine is started, a calibration of the grille shutter system occurs which typically takes 15-20 seconds. The grille shutter system performs the calibration sequence by detecting the end positions, open and closed. The calibration sequence can begin in either direction, open or closed, and continues until it is successful or a fault is sensed. A long pause may occur between the 2 portions (open/close) of the calibration sequence. Calibration of the grille shutter system cannot be manually requested, it only occurs as determined by the grille shutter actuator. If certain faults are present (shutter blocked or actuator error), a recalibration is initiated in an attempt to resolve the problem. If the problem is not resolved after a calibrated number of attempts (usually 3 or 4), a timer starts and sets a DTC when the timer reaches a predetermined limit.

 

The PCM communicates the desired position (open or closed) of the grille shutter based on various PCM inputs (vehicle speed, coolant temperature, ambient temperature, A/C system pressure, etc.).


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#31 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:48 PM

Actually, that makes the most sense from an engineering control perspective but again this now is the third Ford description of how the shutter system operates. When I monitored via the webcam the shutters correlated to coolant temp but the shutters didn't operate consistently between about 90C and 100*C - my point 5. I was varying speed as there was traffic. So since ambient temp was constant and no a/c, speed may have been the other major driver of the shutter operation that I observed and why the inconsistent operation. In your subscription, can you download and save / print files?

#32 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:19 PM

I think their explanation is illogical. If speed was important they would be closed all the time at least above 45mph for aero improvement, but the ICE is more heat the faster you go it needs the cooling power of being open.



#33 OFFLINE   Kidonedatone

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:08 PM

I had this experience too! Except my trick is I get it up to 70mph, then while in empower mode I try to keep the kW under the 3rd notch (starting from the 0 notch) It slows down little by little but you see the mpg bouncing around 40 and eventually kick into EV mode when (it will gradually slow down to around 65). Wash, rinse, repeat!



#34 OFFLINE   Maximus

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:20 PM

I think their explanation is illogical. If speed was important they would be closed all the time at least above 45mph for aero improvement, but the ICE is more heat the faster you go it needs the cooling power of being open.


What is illogical about their explanation ? It just says the system uses various inputs, it doesn't describe how they use those various inputs to determine the shutter setting.

#35 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:08 PM

What is illogical about their explanation ? It just says the system uses various inputs, it doesn't describe how they use those various inputs to determine the shutter setting.

It is illogical because they say speed effects the shutter opening and closing which it doesn't.



#36 OFFLINE   valkraider

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

Maybe it does. You have made a couple runs with a webcam.

There is an infinite combination of variables which could exist, and you have tested maybe 5.

It is entirely possible that speed is in fact used depending on the circumstances and that you just never matched those circumstances.

Or possibly there is a glitch, where speed is *supposed* to be used but maybe is being ignored erroneously.
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#37 OFFLINE   valkraider

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:59 PM

Again, I don't want to discourage anyone from tinkering and certainly I don't want to seem overly harsh.

I just find it highly unlikely that hobbyists with a webcam and a scan gauge we can outsmart a dedicated team of engineers working for years on a power train and performing tests in hundreds of environments with thousands of scenarios using millions of dollars in specialized monitoring equipment with full complete access into every sensor and its source code.

There is a reason Ford didn't put a cheap piece of plastic over the front to increase MPG. With bragging rights and lawsuits and all of the related stuff - if it was truly that simple they would have done it.

In fact - cheap plastic whatnots are EXACTLY how auto makers like to try and squeeze more dollars of profit out of a car.

You honestly think the engineers didn't consider aerodynamics or engine temperature in their design and testing?

My bet is that there is a glitch or anomaly which is reducing the effectiveness of the active shutters which may be improved in future models or possibly in current models with software upgrades. Especially as they get more and more data in from real world use.
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#38 OFFLINE   GUZZI

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:54 PM

Well said Valkraider!



#39 OFFLINE   Jbtbga

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:05 AM

Not to redirect this back to the original poster,  but I did replicate his results.  Don't understand why the ICE with what seems to be minimal Battery charging (but a nice, nearly full battery) improves mileage but I did pick up 1 - 2 mpg on last night's hwy trip. 



#40 OFFLINE   Generalbeluga

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

Thanks, Jbtbga!  I was hoping someone would try it out and verify my findings!  








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