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CMAX OEM tires are VERY efficient!


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100 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:28 PM

jack,

 

how did you mount your tag lower.  my tag is high like pauls,  and I think it looks better low..

 

 

From my post on the Energi forum:

 

It was actrually much easier than I expected, extremely simple, actually.

 

The stock front license mount is attached with 3 pop rivets.  These must be drilled out.  I went to the dealer's parts department and bought 3 replacement rivets, partly to see what I was getting into, partly to see what size hole to drill (1/4 inch diameter will do), partly for possible use in my new mounting, and partly as a hedge in case I needed to revert to the original configuration.

 

With the rivets out, I decided to replace the rivets with screws.  I found some black  rubber grommet nuts just about the right size. Actually they were a bit oversize.  I could have drilled the holes out a bit larger, but (still hedging) I decided to shave the grommets down.  (Having it to do over, I would enlarge the holes.)  I pressed the grommet nuts into all 3 original rivet holes and fitted them with machine screws and washers.  At this point I had a removable, replaceable, mount for the original position.

 

The stock unit mounts in three places.  The two top places are secured to black plastic between the horizontal chrome grille strips.  The lower centered one is secured to the body paint colored bumper cover.  To make the mounting in the lower posirion, I simply turned the mount upside down, retaining the single fastening location.  I then secured the new bottom two fastening locations to the lower grille slate with (releasable) nylon tie-wraps.  Prior to tightening down, I lined the (new) bottom edge of the mount with a rubber piece I made by splitting a length of automotive vacuum hose.  I hoped this would both prevent shifting an protect the paint from being marred. 
 

I simply left the two upper black grommet nuts in place.  They are hardly visible.  Actually they are less visible than the holes.

 

Actually,

Jack









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#42 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

65K is great.  How many times did you rotate the tires?

 

Thanks.

 

By the way, somewhere I posted a link to an article that says that the max tire pressure is for max load, not the pressure the tire become unsafe.  That pressure is much higher.

 

Paul,

 

Very nice tire life!  Thanks for mentioning the pressures.  What are your rotation habits?

 

I have also done about 70 k on Michelins on other cars, usually with tire pressure a bit above the door jamb sticker values and with MINIMAL tire rotations (maybe twice in the life of the tires), I usually do a rotation only when I observe a noticablly greater wear on the fronts, and I always rotate strictly front to back.  If i see any wear difference right to left (and I rarely do), I figure I need an alignment.

 

By the way, I see by the picture in your signature block that you have the front license plate mounted higher than the stock position.  you can see that I have mine lower than the most commonstock position.  I think that the common stock position breaks the lines of the grille outline and spoils the "Aston Martin" styling.  I like thee look of yours as well.

I rotated my tires every oil change and tire pressure gave even wear for 65K.  I actually don't have a front license plate, but showed how it would be mounted on the cover. :)

 

Paul



#43 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 03:22 PM

Paul, I'd be interested in your alignment check. Will this be your first alignment check?  Recently (last several tanks) I thought my car was not always tracking as well as it had in the past. When on the freeways, the car seemed to "drift more" and the steering wheel seemed ever so slightly off from "neutral" position.  There was no abnormal tire wear, but when I took the car in for the 14S04 recall last Wed., I had them check / do the alignment ($99 for alignment). The left rear toe was found to be at the edge of spec. at -0.01* (spec. is -0.01* to 0.39*) and the total rear toe in was below acceptable at 0.10* (spec. is 0.18* to 0.58*).  So, after adjusting the left rear toe in, the total toe came in at 0.31*.  The trust angle changed from -0.06* to +0.04* (spec -0.50* to 0.50*).  Although not out of spec., the tech also increased the front toe in on both sides.  Now after the alignment, I don't notice any tracking issues.

 

I've 27 k miles on my tires with tread wear at 7/32" rear and 8/32 front (as reported by dealer). My measurements about 7.5/32" front and just under 8/32 rear or about 13 k miles / 1/32" wear rate average.   So, I also expect to get around 65 k+ miles before I change them as I generally change at about 3-4 / 32" tread depth also.   My rotation schedule (for all new tires) is at 5 k miles and then 10 k miles thereafter.   I run 45 psi.  Modern tires should run virtually flat (no abnormal tread wear) for a wide range of inflation pressures above recommended.


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#44 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:26 PM

Paul, I'd be interested in your alignment check. Will this be your first alignment check?  Recently (last several tanks) I thought my car was not always tracking as well as it had in the past. When on the freeways, the car seemed to "drift more" and the steering wheel seemed ever so slightly off from "neutral" position.  There was no abnormal tire wear, but when I took the car in for the 14S04 recall last Wed., I had them check / do the alignment ($99 for alignment). The left rear toe was found to be at the edge of spec. at -0.01* (spec. is -0.01* to 0.39*) and the total rear toe in was below acceptable at 0.10* (spec. is 0.18* to 0.58*).  So, after adjusting the left rear toe in, the total toe came in at 0.31*.  The trust angle changed from -0.06* to +0.04* (spec -0.50* to 0.50*).  Although not out of spec., the tech also increased the front toe in on both sides.  Now after the alignment, I don't notice any tracking issues.

 

I've 27 k miles on my tires with tread wear at 7/32" rear and 8/32 front (as reported by dealer). My measurements about 7.5/32" front and just under 8/32 rear or about 13 k miles / 1/32" wear rate average.   So, I also expect to get around 65 k+ miles before I change them as I generally change at about 3-4 / 32" tread depth also.   My rotation schedule (for all new tires) is at 5 k miles and then 10 k miles thereafter.   I run 45 psi.  Modern tires should run virtually flat (no abnormal tread wear) for a wide range of inflation pressures above recommended.

My alignment was within spec. , but I had my alignment done at 25K when I noticed my tires feathering and making alot of noise. The Dealer had to replace an actual suspension part because you can't adjust the rear suspension. I had to reverse rotation of tires to wear down the feathering which took probably 20K at least.  Now having new tires on my car I'm still have alot of noise coming from the back of the car, so It's going back tomorrow morning to look at the bearings. I've been to my Dealer so many times that I get EV+ now! LOL :)

 

Paul


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#45 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 09:09 AM

Well it turns out I have had a bad left rear bearing for a long time and had it replaced yesterday and now my car is quieter now. YA! :)

 

Paul



#46 OFFLINE   Zathrus

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:20 AM

Well it turns out I have had a bad left rear bearing for a long time and had it replaced yesterday and now my car is quieter now. YA! :)

 

Paul

 

Did the bad bearing make noise?  I ask because I am hearing a sound from rear axle when coasting with window down. It's making a shhh.....shhh....shhh....shhh sound that varies with speed. Not sure if it is bearing or brake rub noise that I am hearing. Thanks.



#47 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:47 AM

Did the bad bearing make noise?  I ask because I am hearing a sound from rear axle when coasting with window down. It's making a shhh.....shhh....shhh....shhh sound that varies with speed. Not sure if it is bearing or brake rub noise that I am hearing. Thanks.

Yes it did and it sounded more like a grinding sound that changed pitch with speed. I would have it looked at, don't think it would be brakes, maybe bearings or tires. Good Luck :)

 

Paul



#48 OFFLINE   salsaguy

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:22 AM

Darrel, what you would suggest/recommend I get for my Passat SEL Premium when its time. Im on 21k mile now on my stock OEM Hankooks, which suck with their road noise and not the greatest feel and performance. Id like to get better fuel economy but still want good cornering and handling in All weather even though it doesn't rain here in So. Cal very much. You can PM if you want instead of posting here.

 

Thanks for doing the research on this. Tire selection is an important decision that unfortunately doesn't get the amount of in depth research it deserves. The process should also factor in the most common types of weather hazards faced by the region you reside.

 

I plan to go with these tires if anything happens to the current set.

 

http://www.tirerack....ay.jsp?ttid=138

 

Fuel economy is a factor but not my primary consideration in shopping for new tires. I have installed the Primacy MXM4 on my previous Jetta TDI and my current Passat TDI and they have performed well in various driving conditions. About 2 years ago we had a foot of snow in the DFW area and I was able to navigate the roads in my Jetta without too much drama. Although not equipped with LRR from the factory there has been no notable degradation of FE and big gains in wet/dry stopping and handling.

 

Primary I look for a balance of the best performing tire with the lowest rolling resistance. The money saved on fuel could quickly be offset by an avoidable accident if your tires had a little extra stopping power or handling capability. My region also tends to get sudden downpours leaving hydroplaning causing water on the roads so you need to properly prepare to avoid those situations.



#49 OFFLINE   salsaguy

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:04 AM

those Conti PureContacts with EcoPlus tech look very good for me after reading up on them......

 

Given your need for a tire with excellent wet traction, good fuel economy and good steering feel I would say check out the PureContact. I had them for awhile but I didn't like how rough they felt. It turns out most of the rough ride was due to them being an XL tire in my size (205/50/17). I switched them out for the Primacy MXM4 again in a smaller non-XL size and the ride was a little better but steering response was more vague. It also seemed like mpg went down slightly with the MXM4. Both tires had less than 1,000 miles on them during the testing.

If the PureContact lasts the full 70,000 miles or close to it then you'll be doing well economically speaking. As will any high tread wear LRR tire I would not expect a ton of launch traction so expect a bit of spin with all of that TDi torque. :)

http://www.tirerack....ay.jsp?ttid=166



#50 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:51 PM

Given your need for a tire with excellent wet traction, good fuel economy and good steering feel I would say check out the PureContact. I had them for awhile but I didn't like how rough they felt. It turns out most of the rough ride was due to them being an XL tire in my size (205/50/17). I switched them out for the Primacy MXM4 again in a smaller non-XL size and the ride was a little better but steering response was more vague. It also seemed like mpg went down slightly with the MXM4. Both tires had less than 1,000 miles on them during the testing.

If the PureContact lasts the full 70,000 miles or close to it then you'll be doing well economically speaking. As will any high tread wear LRR tire I would not expect a ton of launch traction so expect a bit of spin with all of that TDi torque. :)

http://www.tirerack....ay.jsp?ttid=166

 

I didn't realize that the LLR could save so much money.  Those PureContacts are looking good to me now.  

 

Though by the time I need tires I will be able to take advantage of other people's experience here.


Edited by obob, 15 July 2014 - 09:00 AM.


#51 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:35 AM

The test I saw on Tire Rack for Prius showed our tire got the best MPG's of all LLR tires and at 50psi I can't complain with performance in all conditions. IMO :)

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 15 July 2014 - 04:42 PM.


#52 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:38 AM

The issue is comparisons are unclear when no tires or vehicles are common between tests, and Tire Rack doesn't make it easy to find. Clicking the tire links in a test should bring you to that tire, but not so... right to "tires by brand."

 

The Conti test is particularly useless as there are no other LRR tires; Potenza, Primacy and P7 are not expected to equal Energy Saver/AS or Ecopia tires. I also see minimal difference; 0.33% and 0.1 mpg to second place, and only 0.7 mpg best-to-worst, a 2.33% range. The Prius used in the LRR test had a 3.8mpg range, a 7.5% difference.

 

I have owned may Conti tires over the years, but I would not buy them for a LRR applicatoin based on any of the data I see at Tire Rack.

 

Frank


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#53 OFFLINE   F8L

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:29 PM

The issue is comparisons are unclear when no tires or vehicles are common between tests, and Tire Rack doesn't make it easy to find. Clicking the tire links in a test should bring you to that tire, but not so... right to "tires by brand."

 

The Conti test is particularly useless as there are no other LRR tires; Potenza, Primacy and P7 are not expected to equal Energy Saver/AS or Ecopia tires. I also see minimal difference; 0.33% and 0.1 mpg to second place, and only 0.7 mpg best-to-worst, a 2.33% range. The Prius used in the LRR test had a 3.8mpg range, a 7.5% difference.

 

I have owned may Conti tires over the years, but I would not buy them for a LRR applicatoin based on any of the data I see at Tire Rack.

 

Frank

The tests are actually fairly controlled in that the same cars are used in the single test and often across multiple tests. In this case it is usually a 3 series BMW. However, tire size differences can and will change some characteristics. For example, the Energy Saver A/S may be the most efficient tire in a 195/65/15 but it may not be the most efficient in a 225/55/17. Since we only have the TireRack data to go by it is difficult to make a truly informed decision. If we had EU LRR ratings standards to go by this would be a lot easier.

 

I disagree with your assessment of the Contis. They are actually quite a bit better in terms of LRR than a lot of other regular tires and they compete well against other LRR tires. I would suggest choosing a tire based on your typical needs and safety and use LRR performance as a tie breaker. I.e If the Bridgestone Serenity Plus and the Continental PureContact look very appealing to you then you can use the lower rolling resistance of the PureContact as a tie breaker. My point is, max fuel economy is a great goal to aim for but make sure you take your safety and driving patterns (fast, wet, snow, slow etc..) into consideration. 


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#54 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 01:04 PM

In the Tire Rack Prius test the Michelin's were the best MPG's and I just replaced my Michelin's at 65K  miles.  I'm fine with the overall performance so I stayed with the best MPG's. :)

 

Paul



#55 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:24 PM

...They are actually quite a bit better in terms of LRR than a lot of other regular tires and they compete well against other LRR tires. I

You missed my point. I said I would not buy them "based on any of the data I see at Tire Rack."

 

Your statement may well be true, but the available data included only 1 manufacturer's low CRR tire line, which is how you stack the deck. Had the test included Energy Saver/AS or Ecopia models, one could reach rational conclusions regarding relative CRR. It didn't, so no rational conclusion can be reached.

 

The real issue I have with your posts is a propensity for confusing opinion with fact. Repeat baseless opinion long enough and folks will start believing it. I live in a fact-based world whenever possible, and will identify baseless opinions as such whenever possible.

 

And I'll note that I have a long-standing bias against Michelin summer tires, and for all types of Conti's, but personal bias is just another baseless opinion!

 

HAve fun,

Frank



#56 OFFLINE   F8L

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:46 PM

You missed my point. I said I would not buy them "based on any of the data I see at Tire Rack."

 

Your statement may well be true, but the available data included only 1 manufacturer's low CRR tire line, which is how you stack the deck. Had the test included Energy Saver/AS or Ecopia models, one could reach rational conclusions regarding relative CRR. It didn't, so no rational conclusion can be reached.

 

The real issue I have with your posts is a propensity for confusing opinion with fact. Repeat baseless opinion long enough and folks will start believing it. I live in a fact-based world whenever possible, and will identify baseless opinions as such whenever possible.

 

And I'll note that I have a long-standing bias against Michelin summer tires, and for all types of Conti's, but personal bias is just another baseless opinion!

 

HAve fun,

Frank

Well all I can say to your rebuttal is go buy the tires and test them yourself. I have and my experience with these tires closely resembles the information posted by TireRack during their testing. Furthermore, not every top shelf LRR comes in the same size as close rivals. This is especially true for low profile 17" tires which are usually in the Grand Touring or performance categories instead of passenger tire. E.g. the Prius comes equipped with 15" or 17" tires but the Energy Saver A/S is only available in a 15" size that is appropriate for this vehicle. So a customer searching for the most efficient 17" tire for the Prius is out of luck with regards to the Energy Saver A/S. In this instance does it matter that the ESAS is more efficient? Nope. 

 

http://priuschat.com...17-tire.118328/

 

http://priuschat.com...-review.120027/

 

http://priuschat.com...-review.105546/

 

http://priuschat.com...-review.110038/

 

http://priuschat.com...7-tires.115411/



#57 OFFLINE   F8L

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:51 PM

Here is a new test from TireRack with a couple of the tires CMax owners would be interested in.

 

http://www.tirerack....p?ttid=188&cid=

 

Summary:

June 6, 2014

Tires tested: Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus (Grand Touring All-Season, 215/60R16 95V)
  • What We Liked: Reasonable road manners
  • What We'd Improve: Wet weather performance
  • Conclusion: A contender in the category that is beginning to feel a little outpaced by newer tires

Continental PureContact w/EcoPlus Technology (Grand Touring All-Season, 215/60R16 95V)

  • What We Liked: Great wet and dry traction and responsive handling
  • What We'd Improve: Soften the ride a little
  • Conclusion: A very good option for drivers who want traction and confident handling

Michelin Premier A/S (Grand Touring All-Season, 215/60R16 95V)

  • What We Liked: Excellent wet weather grip
  • What We'd Improve: A small increase in ultimate dry traction
  • Conclusion: A very good blend of comfort and traction

Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus (Grand Touring All-Season, 215/60R16 95V)

  • What We Liked: A very smooth and quiet ride
  • What We'd Improve: Moderate increase in wet traction
  • Conclusion: One of the best-riding Grand Touring All-Season tires


#58 OFFLINE   pbk

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 10:00 AM

I replaced the OEM's with something else and mpg dropped from 43.5 to 37.5.  

 

I hate the stock tires - the darn things slipped on the paint stripes on a dry road.  As a result, it was only moderately bad news when my son hit a curb (10 mph) and the darn thing blew out the sidewall.  (Again, I have no respect for that stock tire.)

 

My wife hates the idea of ever being stuck someplace, and bought a set of run-flats - the Bridgestone "Drive Guard".  The traction is good, but the car feels "draggy", and even with a fuel-efficient driving style I see the mileage at 37.  I'll keep looking for a solution, but right now it is not the OEM's and not this Bridgestone.  is there anything in the Kumho family?



#59 OFFLINE   F8L

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 12:48 PM

I replaced the OEM's with something else and mpg dropped from 43.5 to 37.5.  

 

I hate the stock tires - the darn things slipped on the paint stripes on a dry road.  As a result, it was only moderately bad news when my son hit a curb (10 mph) and the darn thing blew out the sidewall.  (Again, I have no respect for that stock tire.)

 

My wife hates the idea of ever being stuck someplace, and bought a set of run-flats - the Bridgestone "Drive Guard".  The traction is good, but the car feels "draggy", and even with a fuel-efficient driving style I see the mileage at 37.  I'll keep looking for a solution, but right now it is not the OEM's and not this Bridgestone.  is there anything in the Kumho family?

No. Kumho doesn't make a good LRR tire IMO. Go have a look at the tires I recommended in the post above yours. For the best mix of safety (handling and stopping distance in wet and dry), longevity and fuel efficiency the Michelin Premier A/S and Continental PureContact are tough to beat right now. They are less efficient than the Energy Saver A/S but better in all other regards.



#60 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 12:49 PM

Kumho has limited LLR tires, but I've never researched them for the C-Max. I used some on my Prius-C, but quickly

traded that car in on the 13 C-Max. I didn't notice a change form the stock tires at all.

 

Are you saying you don't like the Michelin's ?








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