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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Hybrid Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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Tuft testing a C-Max

aerodynamic aids

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69 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   mtb9153

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:24 PM

Like camcorder's spec. but i won't be able to justify it. I will probably stay in the $400 range. O well :)  Check your PM

 

Paul

Here's another nice palm size camcorder with great specs and it comes with a neat clear acrylic housing for waterproof shots up to 16ft..  B&H priced at $398 and available on pre-order since it is new and wasn't available when I got my hdr-cx210 Sony HDR-AS100VR POV Action Cam + Live-View Remote Bundle  







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#42 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:21 PM

Frank need a cable? ...

Thanks, but I have the cable. It's just in the car... and I'm not remembering to bring it in with me! It's just a software problem.


Edited by fbov, 27 January 2014 - 06:21 PM.


#43 OFFLINE   RaPieR

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 01:24 PM

It's not a C-Max but interesting video I just saw on the Fusion.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=7o8xvuzyowU

 

Wonder if they have a similar video for the C-Max somewhere.

 

Found a snippet for the 5DR Focus which has a closer body style to the C-Max

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xjqINNH8Rzg


Edited by RaPieR, 29 January 2014 - 01:26 PM.

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#44 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:50 PM

Erect video snippet now available here.

 

This is a 20-sec. clip of the better of the two videos in 1080p so I trust you can see things.

 

HAve fun,

Frank


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#45 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:49 PM

Having problems viewing video in that tuffs are moving to fast and lack of contrast. I need to figure out how to slow motion it. Nice try, I have orange tuffs made but haven't got camera yet. :) 

 

Paul



#46 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:20 AM

You're missing the forest for the trees. The only thing you NEED to see is the tape holding the tuft.

 

If you see the tuft, it's laminar and he tuft tells you direction. 

Sides above the wheel wells, entire fishbowl back to the hatch, and a good portion of the rear glass (note divergence away from centerline).

 

If you can't see the tuft, it's turbulent and there is no direction.

Between the tail lights and below you can't see tufts. You also can't see them at the crease below the rear glass, where mtb's spoiler sits.

 

Then there's everything inbetween...

- Wheel well turbulence occurs in a region of high flow, so you see blurry tufts.

- Below the tail lights, you can see a transition going around the corner from laminar to turbulent

- While the upper rear glass has stable, slow flow, the lower portion picks up some of the turbulence between the tail lights

 

Slowing it down to 1/4 speed (i.e. repeat each frame 4x) does let you see the tufts in turbulent regions... I'm surprised how well they freeze! (Not bad for a $70 camera... )

 

What do you see now?

 

HAve fun,

Frank, who wishes he'd found Movie Maker sooner...


Edited by fbov, 06 March 2014 - 10:21 AM.

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#47 OFFLINE   C-MaxSea

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 01:05 PM

:future:  I still see Prius flanks in our future.  (glad I have a 2013 with beautiful hips)  Nick


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#48 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:03 PM

My Fathers Day gift was a new spoiler, or should I say getting to fabricate one....
Spoiler Fit Sm
Spoiler center detail Sm
Spoiler End detail Sm
Underside after rear Sm
Edge after No flash Sm
The idea was to use aluminum angle bar stock and find a flat spot where it would mount. When I finally crawled underneath, and realized I could use the front panel as a template, I knew I was onto something.
 
I started with  2" x 1/16" x 8' aluminum bar stock from Home Depot, a jigsaw with metal blade, and a pair of pliers. And a 5/16" Allen bit in place of the right Torx bit. First, remove the plastic panel between front lip and crossmember
- there are 7 screws (4 long from the tire spoiler, 3 short from the crossmember)

- there are 6 plastic plugs (pull center out to release the plug)

 

Then, cut out the bits on the bar stock

- cut a "V" in each side of the angle stock 36" apart, so you can bend it.
- use the plastic panel as a template for several features
relief for the panel under the engine (cut outs in plastic piece)
tangs that you will bend back into the two slots in the plastic piece
tangs with slots that will go under the three screws

- the tangs under the screws need a compound bend to follow the contour, up as little, then back down

- the tangs in the slots are very helpful aligning things, so you can locate attachment features

- the relief areas I just cut a slot and bent the section until it broke.

- watch length at the ends, and be sure to curve the top to match the contour of the plastic cover at the ends.

 

No idea if it works, but give me a few weeks. I've been running ~55mpg on the way to work lately, and this should show better at high speed, but we'll see.

 

HAve fun,

Frank


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#49 OFFLINE   Marc Smith

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 02:28 PM

bene reading this post.  and i was intruiged...  on my prius th eclear glass portion of the tailgate stayed clear, while the vertical glass  stayed dirty,  same coudl be said for my HHR  the HHR has a similar rear shape as our C-max.  flat back.  while the prius  is a bit more slippery.

 

do you guys ever remmebr back in the 80's 90's  the rear wings they had on wagons...  I think these were designed to move air flow over the back to help keep the glass clear.  Might it have also helped to divert airflow over the back to reduce drag...

005.jpg


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#50 OFFLINE   kostby

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 03:30 PM

That wing helped a little since there was no rear wiper, but drive on a dry dusty country gravel road, and it was pretty worthless. I don't think I drove one enough in the rain to remember if it helped or not. My father-in-law had a 1988 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser much like that one, in burgundy. It was like driving a Sherman tank, except it wasn't nearly as noisy, and you didn't have to stand up to see out… (Yes, I actually rode in a WW II-era Sherman when I was about 8 years old!) 

 

Like adding roof rack, that downturned edge probably adds enough drag to hurt mpgs a couple of tenths on a modern hybrid.

Ebay is full of the those "JDM" wings you see the kids add… http://www.ebay.com/...s-/33638/i.html

 

Wings probably didn't affect gas mileage significantly in 1988, because the car was already boxy and weighed two and a half tons, with a 140hp 307 4bbl and lock-up torque converter. It was rated at 15 city/22 highway, 18 combined. Who knows, maybe the rear wing actually helped handling at speeds above 140mph  ;)

 

My 2003 Vibe still has the factory-standard roof rack and crossbars, removable only with a major disassembly of the rack and some very-breakable plastic pieces and fasteners. I moved the bars rearward as far as possible, hoping to get them out of the wind because the roof peaks over the B-pillar and slopes down before the C-pillar. In 2005 the crossbars were made an extra-cost option, and I notice on Fuelly that the 05's seem to get slightly better mileage, but it could be because of a different grille design as well.


Edited by kostby, 16 June 2014 - 03:33 PM.


#51 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 04:21 PM

 

It's all about air flow. The seminal work on automotive aerodynamics is Hucho, and be prepared to spend $75 for a lot of math. Here's a link to a synopsis, containing about 5% of the book.

 

The story on wings/rear spoilers is they rarely reduce drag, and in some cases (Porsche) intentionally increase drag. If it keeps your (vertical) window clean, you pay for it at the pump. If it looks too small to do anything worthwhile, it's likely beneficial. C-Max has a good one; tufts are aligned to a spreading flow down the rear glass, and don't bounce around a lot until you get to the sheet metal. My back window stays a lot cleaner than the tailgate below it.  

 

To my eye, an HHR's body profile has very little in common with C-Max. Compare the profile with the aero template (Hucho link, Fig. 4). The C-Max is highest above the drivers' head, and drops back down, following the aero template perfectly from the front axel to the tailgate. Extending that profile far enough is the essence of a Kamm's work.

Cmax Side View_template.jpg

 

But as Hucho notes, there are other requirements, like stability in cross-winds. Very low drag shapes are typically highly unstable shapes. That's why Porsche has a speed-activated spoiler on all their 911-shape cars; they're very sensitive to cross winds without it! No fun driving a car that aims you off the road in cross winds. Add in trailing throttle oversteer and one can see why 911's are hard to drive fast.

 

HAve fun,

Frank


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#52 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 11:57 PM

I've been at it again with aluminum angle stock, this time side skirts.

 

The car has a plastic rocker panel cover with removable plastic fasteners on the underside  and fairly standard plug-style panel holders along the upper edge, behind the door. One fastener in the front, to the wheel well panel, and the rest on the underside. They look like this, with center plug pulled, and in total.

Skirt before fastner detail
Skirt rocker panel fasteners
 
I made the skirts from 1.5" angle stock, a pair of 8-footers, instead of 2" by mistake, but it's a good idea as it maintains 5" of ground clearance on the sides. The front is bent inward, to shed the wheel turbulence, and upward to match rocker panel contour. The back is bent outward, and the excess angle stock used to create an inner skirt angled inward, forming a wedge in front of the rear tire.
Skirt bottom
Skirt front detail beforfe
Skirt rear detail

 

To fabricate the skirt, I removed the drivers' side panels by prying the upper plugs out of their holes. I made both from this template, and installed the passengers' side with just the lower plugs removed. It's 1/4" too far forward on that side. The skirt is held on with a combination of 2-sided mounting tape and 9 pop rivets with backing washers.

Skirt riveting detail
Skirt font detail after
Skirt rear after detail
Skirt after detail front
Skirt after detail rear
 
As with the air dam, from a distance, you can't see a thing unless you know where to look. I painted all three with truck bed liner and it's a nice match to the black plastic rockers. I'm quite happy with the result, and hopefully, it'll last!
 
HAve fun,
Frank

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#53 OFFLINE   mtb9153

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 02:49 AM

Interesting idea Frank, wish I had thought of it



#54 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:41 AM

I'm of the opinion that we humans don't invent, we discover.

 

Innovative solutions are out there, but obscured by the limits of human perception and conception. The advance of technology that marks humanity as different from the rest of life on this planet, is a result of changes in the way we look at things. A rock is a rock, until we figure out how to break it to form a tool (stone age) or melt it to reveal the metal inside (bronze/iron age), or learn how to make it "just so." (as in the silicon wafers used to make solid state electronics).

 

That's one reason for posting our projects; other people may discover even better ways of doing things. As Sir Isaac Newton paraphrased Bernard of Chartres:

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants"

 

HAve fun,

Frank, the philosopher (in the classical sense)


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#55 OFFLINE   C-MaxSea

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 12:21 PM

Very good stuff Frank.  I'd say we are looking at Wunderkind II in the making, i.e. you are doing the very things that Ford will be throwing at the 2016/2017 redesign.  Toss on some more slippery (redesigned) rear flanks, add the new nex-gen battery, and voila Wunderkind II.  Wunderkind I being our current version of course.

 

According to my calcucomputations:

 

In extra good hands and weather, Wunderking I:   50 mpgs       (Our 'test vehicle', no mods, 45 mpg ECO cruising (+-1 mph), could push 50 mpgs with some effort, )

Similary                                          Wunderkind II:  60 mpgs        in extra good hands & subject to weather

 

Not having as much fun as you, yet,

 

Nick

 

(love the Giant's shoulders; we'd still be out there breaking rocks without them)


Edited by C-MaxSea, 03 July 2014 - 11:01 AM.


#56 OFFLINE   kostby

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 12:55 PM

Lowrider C, anyone?

 

Eibach has lowering springs  to drop it another ~30mm (1.18 inches) if you want to lower the car a bit more and make all that side-skirt ground-effects stuff work even better.

http://www.ford-acce...ticleNameId=575

Disclaimer: They're european C-MAX spring kits, but a fully opted British Grand C-MAX Titanium minimum published kerb weight is 1634kg/~3602lbs, almost exactly the North American C-MAX Hybrid published curb weight, at 3607lb.

http://carleasingmad...ax/kerb-weight/

http://www.ford.com/...ions/capacities


Edited by kostby, 27 June 2014 - 12:59 PM.


#57 OFFLINE   salsaguy

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:43 AM

Monoprice is the only place to buy any kind of cable where you wont get ripped off royally

 

Frank need a cable?  Go to Radio Shack, there must be one near you in NY.  For that matter go to B&H Superstore in Brooklyn if it is anywhere close to your town.  They are a city block long, massive store from what I've seen on their website.



#58 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:21 AM

Boy, this is a moldy oldie! See post 42. I got 10 18-inchers from Monoprice the previous Christmas, dispersed among family members, but not into my briefcase.


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#59 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:09 PM

Finally got my act together( sort of LOL) thanks to Frank. Here are pics of new mods. Wheel well covers and hard foam spoiler with Velcro attaching to under cover. 

Wheel well cover
Tire Air dam1
:)
 
Paul

Edited by ptjones, 02 July 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#60 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:08 PM

That's one reason for posting our projects; other people may discover even better ways of doing things. As Sir Isaac Newton paraphrased Bernard of Chartres:

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants"

Interesting that he didn't say "do more work" or "get somewhere faster" but that he had "seen further".  As you say, "the way we look at things".  The transistor got invented because they were trying to do it, they could "see" that it should work.  Someone didn't stumble across it.  I wonder though, might Sir Isaac have been looking back (history) as well as forward?  Sometimes we need to do that too.  The big issue with highway mileage is drag coefficient.  Cut it from 0.29 to 0.113, power needed goes down, smaller engine, less weight, less rolling resistance, etc, and your 70 mph mileage goes from 40 to 80.  Yes, 0.113 is possible - looking back about 75 years!.


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