Laurel Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 How anyone bought the recommended 17 winter tire size? If so, what did you get and how much did they cost? We didn't put winter tires on last year, but we want to go to snow country this year so want to buy some winter tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Looking at snows for a hybrid means you're interested in rolling resistance as well as winter performance. Recognizing that, Tire Rack included mpg in their most recent snow tire test. It lead me to buy Michelin X-Ice as the best combination of ice and dry road performance with the lowest RR. Tire Rack has a very niced web site for price comparisons. I won't discuss prices here, except to say that X-Ice will cost you $34 extra per tire for stock 225/50's compared with 215/55's. Per my discussion above, I'd recommend the 215 on performance grounds as well. Rev per mile is 803 stock vs 791 for the 215/55's, about 1.5%. Have fun,Frank Edited October 3, 2013 by fbov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) I'm not having fun so far Frank. The dealership just phoned with a quote for tires and rims for $3800! I nearly fainted with that quote. He said he was shocked himself and they will be phoning around and get back to me next week. I have a message left at Kal Tire and he is supposed to get back to me in a few minutes. I haven't heard of Tire Rack but I will google--likely not a Canadian thing. I'm pretty sure my husband did not pay much more than $3800 for his big honking Lexus SUV snow tires with rims. I am not driving a Rolls Royce here, but the price seems to reflect that I am LOL. Update: Kal Tire will put on 17" Nokian Nordman snowtires with aluminum rims for $1700. So the deed is done. They sound totally adequate for my needs and that price includes $200 worth of pressure sensing monitors. I'm happy. Edited October 3, 2013 by Laurel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiesel1 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) I'm not having fun so far Frank. The dealership just phoned with a quote for tires and rims for $3800! I nearly fainted with that quote. He said he was shocked himself and they will be phoning around and get back to me next week. I have a message left at Kal Tire and he is supposed to get back to me in a few minutes. I haven't heard of Tire Rack but I will google--likely not a Canadian thing. I'm pretty sure my husband did not pay much more than $3800 for his big honking Lexus SUV snow tires with rims. I am not driving a Rolls Royce here, but the price seems to reflect that I am LOL.Don't buy factory wheels and don't buy tires from the dealer You can buy aftermarket wheels and save $2000 if you feelthe need to go to a smaller wheel and tire package. Otherwise, buy the 17 inch tires. It crazy to buy new factory wheels from the dealer. Edited October 3, 2013 by drdiesel1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) I bought the Kal Tire package for $1700 including installation. I phoned the dealership back and told them not to look for a better deal than the $3800 as I was buying from Kal Tire. I'm not sure what after market tires are, but I bought Nokian Nordman snow tires with aluminum rims painted silver and they have the pressure sensors too. I Edited October 3, 2013 by Laurel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 "Aftermarket" is anything other than OEM... Ford or aftermarket are all possible choices. Nothing to be concerned about assuming they pick a wheel that meets Ford specs. The one that gets missed a lot is centerbore - the size of the centering hole - as that should be a snug fit. You don't want the lug nuts to be responsible for centering the wheel on the axel, just to keep it tight. Some aftermarket wheels need spacers, which I avoid. There's a discussion here. The Nordman looks very similar to Hakkapeliitta Q's we ran years ago; a very good snow tire. Are your studded? It will be interesting to compare the impact on the car's performance between the Nokian's and Michelins, and whatever other brands and sizes of snows folks try. Have fun,Frnak Laurel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpr Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Hello, I'm looking at the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 XL and I was wondering what would be the driving difference between the 215/55R16 and the 215/60R16? Thanks Edited October 4, 2013 by lpr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Revolutions per mile differences will affect speedo/odo calilbration and so fuel mileage readouts relative to a GPS-based mileage. Here are X-Ice specs (click specs tab). A 215/55 has a shorter sidewall than a 215/60, so it has a smaller diameter and more rev/mile. The difference, 823 vs. 796, brackets the OEM tire's 803 rev/mi. +1% one way, -2.5% the other. On the road, you'd have the normal differences that result from lower aspect ratio, but they'd be very subtle as 55>60 is a very small change. You'd accelerate faster, but would be traveling slower than you think. Unless you have reasons to want 16's (like cost), the 215/55-17's offer the advantages of a narrower contact patch in the stock wheel size with a 791 rev/mi., +1.5% Have fun,Frank, who bought 215/60-16's on steel wheels BTW, I only talk rev/mi. when discussing rolling performance because it assumes rated load @ rated pressure, which is a heck of a lot closer to reality than static diameter and circumference measurements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 "Aftermarket" is anything other than OEM... Ford or aftermarket are all possible choices. Nothing to be concerned about assuming they pick a wheel that meets Ford specs. The one that gets missed a lot is centerbore - the size of the centering hole - as that should be a snug fit. You don't want the lug nuts to be responsible for centering the wheel on the axel, just to keep it tight. Some aftermarket wheels need spacers, which I avoid. There's a discussion here. The Nordman looks very similar to Hakkapeliitta Q's we ran years ago; a very good snow tire. Are your studded? It will be interesting to compare the impact on the car's performance between the Nokian's and Michelins, and whatever other brands and sizes of snows folks try. Have fun,FrnakThey don't have studs. Thanks for all the information Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Revolutions per mile differences will affect speedo/odo calilbration and so fuel mileage readouts relative to a GPS-based mileage. Here are X-Ice specs (click specs tab). A 215/55 has a shorter sidewall than a 215/60, so it has a smaller diameter and more rev/mile. The difference, 823 vs. 796, brackets the OEM tire's 803 rev/mi. +1% one way, -2.5% the other. On the road, you'd have the normal differences that result from lower aspect ratio, but they'd be very subtle as 55>60 is a very small change. You'd accelerate faster, but would be traveling slower than you think. Unless you have reasons to want 16's (like cost), the 215/55-17's offer the advantages of a narrower contact patch in the stock wheel size with a 791 rev/mi., +1.5% Have fun,Frank, who bought 215/60-16's on steel wheels BTW, I only talk rev/mi. when discussing rolling performance because it assumes rated load @ rated pressure, which is a heck of a lot closer to reality than static diameter and circumference measurements.When my tires were new the odometer was off by -1.5% and now with 37K it is -1.4% . Smaller tires would fix that problem but make speedometer under more. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Paul,That's a tiny change... but it got me thinking about how much tire pressure and wear affect revolutions/mile, and so speedo/odo cal. WearPer Tire Rack, Michelin makes the OEM tires with 9.5/32" of tread depth.- I'll calculate using unloaded dimensions; there's a consistent 3% difference between loaded and unloaded radius. - Assuming a 3/32" threshold for "worn out," one expects a 6.5/32" change in radius over life, or a 13/32 change in diameter, 0.406" The result is a 1.6% change in static diameter over life. PressureMichelin rates the OEM tire at 1433 lb.@51psi. Tread width is fixed at 8.2". Contact patch length will vary with pressure.- from Pascal's LawForce = pressure x area, so contact patch area = force / pressure, or 1433 / 51=28.8 sq. in.- assuming square corners (a bad assumption), contact patch length = area / tread width- the hard part is calculating the radius change due to a "flat spot" the length of the contact patch(Warning, trigonometry)Loaded R = static R x (1 - cos(x)),where x = asin(contact patch length / static diameter) The result is a 0.3% change in rolling diameter going from 51psi to 38psi., up to 0.6% if you go down to 30psi. Have fun,Frank ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 This is a bit of a cross post, but let me add here that my steel wheels have 16x6.5-50 is stamped in the metal; 16" wheel, 6.5" wide with a 50mm offset (love the mixed units, don't you?) The centerbore is 2.5" = 63.5mm and Ford uses a 5 x 108mm bolt circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeNivem Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Nokian makes an excellent tire, so kudos on that selection, by the way. But what I really wanted to discuss was the first post in this thread, which mentioned that the owner's manual does not recommend using chains. Do you think the manual says that only because they mean traditional chains, which would be too large for the limited available space in our wheel wells? I assume so. And based on that assumption, I bet something like these would be alright... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HZA2LK...any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbob Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 But what I really wanted to discuss was the first post in this thread, which mentioned that the owner's manual does not recommend using chains. Do you think the manual says that only because they mean traditional chains, which would be too large for the limited available space in our wheel wells? I assume so. From another thread, this document does mention what type of chains will fit: http://www.motorcraftservice.com/content/pdf/2013_CMAX_Modifer_Guide.pdf CarpeNivem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeNivem Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 From another thread, this document does mention what type of chains will fit: http://www.motorcraftservice.com/content/pdf/2013_CMAX_Modifer_Guide.pdf Oh, excellent. Thank you. So then, the chains I linked to earlier will fit. Good to know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Paul,That's a tiny change... but it got me thinking about how much tire pressure and wear affect revolutions/mile, and so speedo/odo cal. WearPer Tire Rack, Michelin makes the OEM tires with 9.5/32" of tread depth.- I'll calculate using unloaded dimensions; there's a consistent 3% difference between loaded and unloaded radius. - Assuming a 3/32" threshold for "worn out," one expects a 6.5/32" change in radius over life, or a 13/32 change in diameter, 0.406" The result is a 1.6% change in static diameter over life. PressureMichelin rates the OEM tire at 1433 lb.@51psi. Tread width is fixed at 8.2". Contact patch length will vary with pressure.- from Pascal's LawForce = pressure x area, so contact patch area = force / pressure, or 1433 / 51=28.8 sq. in.- assuming square corners (a bad assumption), contact patch length = area / tread width- the hard part is calculating the radius change due to a "flat spot" the length of the contact patch(Warning, trigonometry)Loaded R = static R x (1 - cos(x)),where x = asin(contact patch length / static diameter) The result is a 0.3% change in rolling diameter going from 51psi to 38psi., up to 0.6% if you go down to 30psi. Have fun,FrankI have raised my tire psi from 45 to 50 and plan to move front to back the tires, Rears have more tread and will see what effect that has on GPS mileage. The difference was 1.38% on my record breaking trip. I'm thinking it might go to 1.5%. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbob Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Looking at snows for a hybrid means you're interested in rolling resistance as well as winter performance. Recognizing that, Tire Rack included mpg in their most recent snow tire test. It lead me to buy Michelin X-Ice as the best combination of ice and dry road performance with the lowest RR. Tire Rack has a very niced web site for price comparisons. I won't discuss prices here, except to say that X-Ice will cost you $34 extra per tire for stock 225/50's compared with 215/55's. Per my discussion above, I'd recommend the 215 on performance grounds as well. Rev per mile is 803 stock vs 791 for the 215/55's, about 1.5%. Have fun,Frank I just received my 215/60R-16 Michelin X-Ice tires today from tirerack. Picked up a cheap scissor jack to install one temporarily to make sure everything fit. Ordered a hydraulic jack that will go low enough to get under the C-Max low-rider, the one I use on the F-150 only goes down to 7.5". Hopefully the 60 degree clear weather will continue, winter tends to start in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil1336 Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Since relocating to South Florida from Massachusetts in 1998, the only reminder I have of Winters past is the Ice Scraper I kept as a souvenir. Can`t say I miss De-Icers, Dry Gas, Studded Snow Tires, Engine Core Block Heaters, and the other joys of Old Man Winter. Have to admit though, three things that come to mind that we do miss here in the Tropics. Runny Noses, Chap Lips, and Wool Rash, oh well...... Izzy and obob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAZ Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 I vote to ban Phil1336...jk obob, Laurel and Izzy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Why? We still have the better deal - at least snow melts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joh L Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ran 16" R60 16's studded last winter--good results. The 17's vacation in the garage.Bought the rims from ford dealer. Run about 1% slow according to GPS.Location upstate hilly New York Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obob Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I was curious about this as well, but after glancing at the Focus ST forums they are able to clear 16" wheels on their cars. I assume that the C-Max and ST probably have similar sized front calipers so I bought a used set of 16" 5x108 wheels that I'm going to use for winter. You can use any of the widely available tire size calculators to make sure your new set of tires match the size of the OEM spec:http://www.kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator I'm going with 215/60R16 which are pretty close at 1.2% faster than stock. 225 50 17 25.858 225 50 16 24.858 215 55 16 25.311215 55 15 24.311215 55 17 26.311 205 60 15 24.685205 60 16 25.685205 60 17 26.685 Here are some diameter I got from a diameter calculator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbot13 Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Reviving this thread...I just checked Tirerack's Winter tire "preferred package"for the 2013 C-Max SEL and they were 215/65/15 size tires. Using the kouki.co.uk link, that was only a 0.6% in speed than the stock wheels. Doesn't look like anyone here considered the 15" wheels, they're certainly cheaper. Now I'm just wondering whether they will clear the brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 The size they sell will depend on the brand they want you buy. Take a look at Tire Rack's "build your own" packages. They only offer 3 brands in a 15" size, indicating the 215/65-15 is not a very common size. The 16" packages have 19 tire options, and the 17's, 25 options. With tires, unless you want a specific tire that's only a good match in a 15, you're better off having a bunch of choices. I went with 215/60-16s on Ford steel wheels... and paid far more than you would! Tire prices are down!! I also went with X-Ice 3, and can make a good argument that Michelin got the rolling resistance right with these snows. HAve fun,Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNY Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Would the 15" rims clear the calipers? might depend on how the rim is made. I Just got my Michelin Xice 3 snow tires today from TireRack. Went with 215/55/R17 which were almost $30/ea cheaper than the stock size of 225/50/R17. They were least expensive and in stock. only about 3/8" difference in size. I Will get them mounted this weekend, hopefully. I'll run the snows on the stock rims and put the stock tires on New rims for the summer . Edited November 25, 2015 by WNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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