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Oil Quality and Change Interval

oil TBN viscosity

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79 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 07:26 PM

Attached File  oil results.pdf   37.27KB   9 downloads

 

I tabulated my oil data, which includes TBN, is a result of consistently following the oil change indicator. I need to add Paul's recent addition. 

- all TBNs are below 2, as low as 0.5 for the first change after I took ownership.

- my flash point and fuel contamination seem worse with 0W20 synthetic, compared with 5W20 Ford blend.

 

HAve fun,

Frank









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#62 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 10:20 AM

I think there might be some confusion on miles on unit, some are Odometer miles and mine is ICE miles.  I personal think ICE miles are what's important, ICE miles % can vary between 30% to 70% as compared with Odometer miles. So it's possible to have 10k on odometer and only 3k on ICE, it would be a waist of money and oil to do a oil change. IMO :) Does anyone know how long Mobil 1 is good for just sitting in oil pan? That could be what determines when to change the oil. Going to Mobil site they're talking about changing oil annually. And again my last oil change was about one year/14k ICE miles and BlackStone Labs said my oil was still good. :)  

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 30 March 2017 - 10:35 AM.


#63 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 06:15 PM

Does anyone know how long Mobil 1 is good for just sitting in oil pan? That could be what determines when to change the oil. Going to Mobil site they're talking about changing oil annually. And again my last oil change was about one year/14k ICE miles and BlackStone Labs said my oil was still good. :)  

You can go up to 2 years with Mobil 1 in the sump IF you reach full oil temperature on at least 80% of your trips.  (Short trips, acid build-up in oil, shortens life since oil doesn't get hot enough on some short trips.)   Synthetic base oils are very oxidation stable so heat doesn't hurt it much, but acid build-up from too many short trips mean you shouldn't go over 1 year in those engines.

Personally, I would only do 2 years if I had Mobil 1 Extended Performance or Mobil 1 Annual Protection  (not Mobil 1 AFE) or Amsoil SS oil in the sump with a Fram Ultra glass fiber media oil filter which lasts longer.   Just to be on the safe side for very little extra $$$ spent, like $5 more expense if using Mobil 1 Ext Perf instead of AFE.


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#64 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:07 AM

In my case I drive to many miles per year( 30k mi.+) which works out to 15k ICE miles so i'm not going to be going much farther than a year. :)

 

Paul



#65 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 09:28 AM

MaxHeadroom, you mention the Fram Ultra, and other, filters as good - do you think they are better than the Mobil 1 Synthetic filter?  It often comes with the oil in an "oil change special".



#66 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:21 PM

MaxHeadroom, you mention the Fram Ultra, and other, filters as good - do you think they are better than the Mobil 1 Synthetic filter?  It often comes with the oil in an "oil change special".

Fram Ultra is better than even the latest version of the Mobil 1 synthetic oil filter.

The reasons why:  Mobil 1 Synthetic oil filter is really using only about half synthetic (glass fibers) media, and half cellulose (wood fiber) filter media.

 

By comparison, Fram Ultra has a full-synthetic (100% glass fiber) dual layer media with wire-backing, none of which the Mobil 1 oil filter has.

On top of all that, the 4548-12 standard performance tests show the Fram Ultra gets more tinier particles out than Mobil filters. (99% at 20 microns vs. 30 micron threshold).

 

Bottom line:  Fram Ultra holds more potential garbage (grams) before it clogs than Mobil 1 oil filter, and the Ultra filters smaller junk out.

 

Not as good as Fram Ultra, but better than Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil filters:

--- Royal Purple oil filters

--- Amsoil EaO oil filters

--- MicroGreen oil filters 

Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil filters are slightly better than Fram ToughGuard (TG) oil filters, BTW....  Fram's Ultra is the king though.



#67 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 02:31 AM

Fram Ultra is better than ...

Can you show us the evidence for these claims? Your link to the 4548-12 performance testing is missing.

Frank



#68 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:20 PM

Can you show us the evidence for these claims? Your link to the 4548-12 performance testing is missing.

Frank

The Fram website has it, and the Mobil 1 website has it. ...  It just doesn't get any easier to google that, or just go those websites.

http://www.fram.com/...tic-oil-filter/

https://mobiloil.com...nce-oil-filters

Amsoil and Royal Purple oil filter results are out there too.  I'm way to lazy to repeat a past search on those.  Feel free.

 

Let's say you don't care about 4548-12 results, as some don't:

Then, just get the Fram Ultra based on wire-backing and full-synthetic glass fiber media, which can't be debated.   Actually 4548-12 is important here, but not the only thing.



#69 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 01:36 AM

I asked for data, not installation instructions or marketing pieces. 

 

You got nothing behind this stuff, right? No data, just unproven claims and excuses... why do you waste our time?

 

Frank



#70 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:49 AM

IMO Experience trumps everything else :), like I said before I have 151K mi and I don't use a noticeable amount in 14K ICE miles and Blackstone Labs Report is the best I have had. So using FORD oil filters and Mobil 1 is plenty good enough for the ICE to out last the car. Spending anymore is a waist of money unless the oil filter improves MPG's like maybe K&N. :) 

 

Paul 



#71 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:23 PM

I asked for data, not installation instructions or marketing pieces. 

 

You got nothing behind this stuff, right? No data, just unproven claims and excuses... why do you waste our time?

 

Frank

You are missing the info.  Don't be confused.   I can't hold your hand anymore.

The 4548-12 test results are on the websites, for those who are able to find it there.

Hint:  Look for the asterisk statements to support their efficiency claims.

Those 4548-12 statements are from actual tests performed.  And Fram Ultra construction is a fact.

So take your weird attitude somewhere else and leave it to us engineers to evaluate facts.


Edited by MaxHeadroom, 05 April 2017 - 12:26 PM.


#72 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 01:15 PM

IMO Experience trumps everything else :), like I said before I have 151K mi and I don't use a noticeable amount in 14K ICE miles and Blackstone Labs Report is the best I have had. So using FORD oil filters and Mobil 1 is plenty good enough for the ICE to out last the car. Spending anymore is a waist of money unless the oil filter improves MPG's like maybe K&N. :)

Thats basically true, you can't go too wrong using those two filters, as they at least both have silicon ADBV, my minimum requirement.

 

For your extra long oil change time/miles, I'd try to use the best though, so why mess around with inferior equipment since its cheaper or about as cheap?

 

As for expense, Fram Ultra is actually cheaper than the M1 filter.  Mobil charges more because the consumer doesn't know, and they often buy it to "match" their Mobil1 oil purchase (emotion), all marketing tricks.



#73 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 12:52 AM

... So take your weird attitude somewhere else and leave it to us engineers to evaluate facts.

You are no engineer. 

 

Engineers can answer simple questions. That may seem weird to you, but then, you're more of a lawyer than a technical person. 



#74 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 07:52 AM

Engineers can answer simple questions.

You can't even find the simple 4548-12 results when I give you the web page link!

What a pure idiot.



#75 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 10:49 AM

Thats basically true, you can't go too wrong using those two filters, as they at least both have silicon ADBV, my minimum requirement.

 

For your extra long oil change time/miles, I'd try to use the best though, so why mess around with inferior equipment since its cheaper or about as cheap?

 

As for expense, Fram Ultra is actually cheaper than the M1 filter.  Mobil charges more because the consumer doesn't know, and they often buy it to "match" their Mobil1 oil purchase (emotion), all marketing tricks.

I have never used a M1 filter, just FORD and K&N.  :)

 

Paul



#76 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 01:04 AM

For the record...

first link: "www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter/" 

second link: "mobiloil.com/en/oil-filters/performance-oil-filters"

 

Marketing pieces and installation instructions are not data. Send me a link to data if you can, back off on your claims if you can't. 

 

Simple. 

 

Frank


Edited by fbov, 09 April 2017 - 01:05 AM.

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#77 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 09:32 AM

For the record...

first link: "www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter/" 

second link: "mobiloil.com/en/oil-filters/performance-oil-filters"

 

Marketing pieces and installation instructions are not data. Send me a link to data if you can, back off on your claims if yo

Simple. ((You keep harping and whining about "installation instructions", very strange behavior.  Who cares.))

The 4548-12 statements are on those web pages.  Sorry if you can't find it.  Try the footnotes maybe.  Heard of that?   Is it that you don't believe multipass performance statements?  Tin-foil hat for you then, since those claims are checked by competitors quite easily and very often, by engineers I've met.



#78 OFFLINE   markd

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 10:36 AM

Please keep it civil, we lost Dr. Dashboard for agressive posting.
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#79 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 01:08 PM

... Tin-foil hat ...

... for the guy who can't post a simple link.

 

This is what a link to data looks like. 

https://avt.inl.gov/...eryCMax2158.pdf

Select it and you will learn about performance capabilities of your car's HVB.

 

I'd give you a different link if you asked about other data. This is how adults respond to reasonable questions. Proof of claims is always a reasonable question. 

 

If you have nothing of value to post, please abstain. 

 

I'd also be careful; you've riled up the foil hat guys. Time to check the Korbomite shielding in your apartment before the counter-attack. 

 

Have fun,

Frank


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#80 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 09:55 PM

Attached File  Bov Oil data 170627.pdf   38.74KB   2 downloads

 

Latest update. This change is the first requested at 12 months instead of 10K miles, so mileage is 1500 miles low... but ICE miles is within 200 of prior data, so I'm pretty much expecting similar data, with a higher residual level of TBN. And that's what I get, once you account for oil content (Mb and Mg are oil additives).  

 

There's also a mini-experiment going, comparing 5W20 and 0W20 for impact on oil dilution by fuel, and associated reduced flash point. I had seen an average of 0.9% fuel using 5W20 Ford blend, and 2.65% using 0W20 full synth. This change was a repeat of AFE 0W20 oil, but with a difference. My daughter had the car in Vermont, and I drove it home just before the change, including a good 3 hours at ~70 MPH on the last leg. This is exactly what's needed to get oil hot, not just the engine. 

 

This time, with a heating step before the change, there's only trace fuel, and flash-point is back at 400F like it was 30K miles ago. 

 

That leaves run mode as the most likely cause of the fuel contamination. And it's likely a subtle process, as I've included one of Paul's oil analyses, which shows no fuel even with a lot higher ICE miles on the oil. But he's on the highway regularly, with cross-country trips while I was just driving back roads to work...

 

Have fun,

Frank 


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