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Any maintenance for C-MAX transmission?


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41 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:44 PM

I have had the issues described above on occasion.  Sometimes, I do have multiple windows with threads, gallery, and so forth open for long periods of time. So, fbov is likely correct. 









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#22 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:18 PM

I came across this post in a loudspeaker forum. I know the poster, and have no reason to doubt his veracity. I can't say if he's with Ford, but it's clearly a major vendor. When he speaks of quality, I listen, as he's responsible for my favorite speakers

 

No drain plug and no dipstick, maybe we're trying to tell you something. wink.gif Most modern automatic transmissions are fill-for-life. We do not want or see a need for anyone to be inside unless there is a failure of some kind and even then they should be qualified. Transmission fluid does not need to be drained and changed over the life the vehicle in most situations. Interesting tidbit, I work in the Quality division and I see the warranty data of not just us, but of all of the manufacturers that we benchmark. Over the last several years our warranty charts have been rescaled down by a factor of 10. Current warranty numbers would barely show up on the charts of twenty years ago, they'd almost look like a flat line. That's how good things are getting these days.

 

Kind of makes sense for Ford to recommend a 150K miles tranny service...

 

HAve fun,

Frank


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#23 OFFLINE   webcontrol

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:49 AM

Thanks for that information. I had a Chrysler before, that transmission totaled after 40,000 miles.  In my Toyota and Lexus, they all have drain plug underneath and fill hole on top.  From what I saw, transmission fluid start changing color after 50,000 miles. From what I heard from transmission shop, whenever fluid color changed, it should be replaced.  50,000 miles is beyond most factory warranty, so that people probably go to transmission shops to fix them, instead of dealer--where they charge more in most cases.

 

Toyota sold a lot more cars. One reason is they know people want to keep their cars for long time, so that they designed easy maintenance in their cars.  Most American cars don't design the transmission drain plug on them.  If you talk to transmission shop owners, you will find out that most cars fixed there are American cars.  Everything will break.  The one lasting is the one easy to maintain.


Edited by webcontrol, 24 March 2014 - 12:52 AM.


#24 OFFLINE   robertiv

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:24 AM

Why do you assume everyone else can?

 

My issue is weak passords, "weak" as in they don't last the session. I open a few threads and I'm no longer logged in to any of them. Previously open threads no longer allow me to reply. My base page (New Content) requires an active password to open, yet after opening a few new threads, I'm no longer logged in on any thread, includinge New Content!

 

It's an inability to recognize actions taken by logged-in members. Failure to forward credentials from one web page to another on the same site. How is that a local issue?

 

This sounds like it might be a cookie issue. Do you have cookies turned off for the forum website?



#25 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:42 AM

I would assume cookie settings don't vary from one link to the next, so the presence of this reply box under your message tells me my settings are correct.

 

The fact that I will not be able to post this reply without again logging in demonstrates the problem. The next link in the forum opened without credentials, as a guest, so I can't reply to anything until I log in.

 

THIS IS A PROBLEM. I usually just go silent... and silence kills forums like nothing else!

 

Not having fun,

Frank, who has put this message on the clipboard so I don't ahve to retype it.

 

Here's some irony... That next link where I was no longer recognized still managed to open on the first unread post. How does it know what I've read?


Edited by fbov, 09 April 2014 - 10:44 AM.


#26 OFFLINE   TopherTheME

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:21 PM


No drain plug and no dipstick, maybe we're trying to tell you something. wink.gif ....

 

 

 

Yes they are. Why would you ever need to replace the fluid on an eCVT? There are no belts or brakes that typical AT's have. All the major components that produce particles and contaminants the C-Max trans doesn't have so why would you have to ever replace the fluid? The only reason is if the fluid breaks down over time and its properties change, such as viscosity and surface tension. If the fluid can maintain those properties for 150k miles (which synthetic polymer based lubricants can) then you should never need to replace it.



#27 OFFLINE   Tomasz Karwowski

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:50 PM

I replaced transmission oil cooler in my c-max hybrid 2013 - how to check fluid level ?? On cold or hot engine?? Only turn off a plug and check ?? I do not have Motorcraft MArcon LV in Poland . I have only :

 

 

RAVENOL ATF F-LV Fluid

with specification :

  • FORD XT-10-QLVC, XT-10-QLVD
  • FORD Mercon LV,
  • Ford WSS-M2C-938A,
  • Motorcraft XT-10 DLV,
  • ?Motorcraft XT-10-QLV?

Can I mix it?? And how ?? By this plug??

 

Thanks for help = Ford Auto Poland do not have any service manual for cars from US and they afraid to touch it.  


Edited by Tomasz Karwowski, 06 August 2014 - 01:51 PM.


#28 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 02:42 PM

I replaced transmission oil cooler in my c-max hybrid 2013 - how to check fluid level ?? On cold or hot engine?? Only turn off a plug and check ?? I do not have Motorcraft MArcon LV in Poland . I have only :

 

 

RAVENOL ATF F-LV Fluid

with specification :

  • FORD XT-10-QLVC, XT-10-QLVD
  • FORD Mercon LV,
  • Ford WSS-M2C-938A,
  • Motorcraft XT-10 DLV,
  • ?Motorcraft XT-10-QLV?

Can I mix it?? And how ?? By this plug??

 

Thanks for help = Ford Auto Poland do not have any service manual for cars from US and they afraid to touch it.  

Welcome Thomaz  :)

 

This is the spec. for the transmission fluid: WSS-M2C938-A MERCONĀ® LV.  So, it looks like the RAVENOL ATF F-LV Fluid is okay to use.

 

Here's the drain and fill plug locations.  The check plug location was shown in an earlier post in this thread.  Also, see my post here on temperature and other instructions.

 

gallery_167_32_4991.png



#29 OFFLINE   Tomasz Karwowski

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

Thanks for this pictures. They are very helpful. 

 

Everything i should do is: 

 

1. Run engine 1 min (run and drive or only ready too drive? )

2. Turn off and wait 5 min 

3. Check the level and fill by this plug ( i don't want to fill by fill plug because i don't know how much I must too add - I don't know what is the capacity of transmission oil cooler - 0.2-0.6 L ??) 

4. run engine 1 min

5. turn off and wait 5 min

6. check the level again and fill if needed ??

 

I know - i have many questions but I have never a car with eCVT transmission.  



#30 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 04:08 PM

Typically what I've done on my other cars (like VWs) when changing transmission fluid / checking level with no dipstick is to do the service after the car has been off for a while and when the ambient temperature is above the specified check level temperature which in this case is 20C.  Then, I add fluid to overfill slightly via the fill plug.  So, if you believe that you lost up to 0.6 L, I'd add 3/4 L via the top fill plug. Then, run the engine for one minute.  The transmission pump only runs when the engine is running.   This will ensure that fluid has circulated through the cooler and it should be full.  You do not have to drive the car. Then, turn off and wait 5 minutes.  Remove the check level plug and excess fluid should drain out.  If no fluid drains out, you'll have to add more fluid - that's why I like to add excess fluid and not have to repeat the process because I didn't add enough initially.  

 

If you don't want to use the top fill plug when filling, then a funnel like the one below makes sense for filling via the check plug (but also will likely make top filling easy). You can suspend the funnel above the check plug from the hood with a line to the check plug.  Insert the end of the line in the fill plug and open the valve on the funnel allowing fluid to fill the transmission to the until fluid drains out.  The problem is that you can't overfill.  So, once you start the engine and run for one minute, you might have to repeat the process several times via the check plug to ensure the oil cooler is full. 

 

5917857_f260.jpg


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 06 August 2014 - 04:12 PM.

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#31 OFFLINE   RobMax

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 01:26 PM

Just to confirm what someone else said earlier, Ford recommends transmission fluid change at 150,000, according to page 423 of the 2014 owners manual. That being said, does anyone know who makes the CVT in these cars? I would assume it's still Aisin, the Japanese company that made the CVT in my FEH, but that transmission apparently had no fluid change needed, according to both the owner AND service manuals I read. If still Aisin, I wonder why the difference in maintenance...

 

EDIT: And.... answered my own question. Funny I searched for answers on this before I bought my car and don't remember seeing this article: 

http://wardsauto.com...omy-new-hybrids


Edited by RobMax, 20 August 2014 - 01:28 PM.


#32 OFFLINE   vmmvmmm

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:53 PM

I think anyone wanting to get into the guts of their car and figure it out/work on it is cool, and more power to you.  I, however, would not waste the time and money changing the transmission fluid in this case.  CVT's are much different than traditional transmissions, and manufacturing tolerances are tighter than ever.  If you do it as a hobby, great.  If you're doing it to save your transmission, it's probably not necessary.



#33 OFFLINE   Tomasz Karwowski

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 09:29 AM

I've added transmission oil - 5l few weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I was drive without oil (1500km) (there was some oil in converter - but I do not know how much.

 

How can I check the transmission now?? There is no problems whit car and gear changes (800km whit oil). Fuel economy is OK - 5.3-7l/100km (43-33 MPG).

47-43mpg - highway, 37-33mpg on short distance (1-2miles) at cold engine.



#34 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 10:11 AM

I've added transmission oil - 5l few weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I was drive without oil (1500km) (there was some oil in converter - but I do not know how much.

 

How can I check the transmission now?? There is no problems whit car and gear changes (800km whit oil). Fuel economy is OK - 5.3-7l/100km (43-33 MPG).

47-43mpg - highway, 37-33mpg on short distance (1-2miles) at cold engine.

It appears that the dry fill capacity of the transmission is 5.4 L. The only way to check that the transmission has the correct level is by the check plug.  If you added 5 L initially from the check plug (your post 29 procedure) and you couldn't add anymore fluid at step 6 you are likely at the proper level.  But as I said before, The best way is to add more fluid from the top plug than is needed (for example 6 L) and then at step 3 let the excess fluid drain out from the check plug.  In this way you know the transmission has the right amount of fluid.  I also doubt that even if the transmission is a few 100 ml low it will likely not matter given the transmission holds 5.4 L of fluid and you added 5 L to the transmission that probably had some fluid in it to begin with.



#35 OFFLINE   Tomasz Karwowski

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 10:30 AM

I check the level and it is correct. I hope that my transmission will work properly after driving without oil. Wait-and-see.


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#36 OFFLINE   rgrenov8

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:34 PM

Anyone know if there are any differences between the hybrid and the energi transmissions?



#37 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:20 PM

Anyone know if there are any differences between the hybrid and the energi transmissions?

There doesn't seem to be any difference other than maybe gear ratio.  We are not sure on that.  Change fluid at 150K miles. :)

 

Paul



#38 OFFLINE   GSMacLean

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 11:40 AM

Yes they are. Why would you ever need to replace the fluid on an eCVT? There are no belts or brakes that typical AT's have. All the major components that produce particles and contaminants the C-Max trans doesn't have so why would you have to ever replace the fluid? The only reason is if the fluid breaks down over time and its properties change, such as viscosity and surface tension. If the fluid can maintain those properties for 150k miles (which synthetic polymer based lubricants can) then you should never need to replace it.

 

Why? Simplified, the lubricity of the gear oil comes from the hydrocarbon and added polymer molecular chains. These molecular chains are broken up over time simply by being repeatedly crushed between gear teeth - like the many gear teeth present in a planetary transmission. This reduces lubricity and allows wear.



#39 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 10:50 AM

Why? Simplified, the lubricity of the gear oil comes from the hydrocarbon and added polymer molecular chains. These molecular chains are broken up over time simply by being repeatedly crushed between gear teeth - like the many gear teeth present in a planetary transmission. This reduces lubricity and allows wear.

Bunk.

 

This is the result of "classical" thinking, a method that led us to the Earth-centered universe, among other things. It seems reasonable that if a hammer can break a stone, a gear can break an oil molecule. The statement above was not spoken by an organic chemist. The flag is the "crushing between gear teeth." An organic chemist would know better on two fronts, size and strength.

 

Metals are held together by chemical bonds. So are oil molecules. The chemical bonds are far stronger than the mechanical stresses imposed in a properly designed gear train. This is not cutting edge stuff; gears are very well known, and profiles designed to maintain contact area so film strength of the lubricant isn't compromised.

 

It's a film of oil that lubricates a gear, a layer many molecules thick. Unlike the metal lattice in the gear, the oil molecules are like little strings that refuse to tangle with one another. They are long compared with the metal finish, but much smaller than the metal's surface finish in cross section. When you get metal-on-metal contact, the oil isn't in the way, it's hiding in the surface texture, in very small groups now that the film has been broken.

 

A little research yields the real reasons oils degrade - chemical breakdown due to high temperatures, oxidation, or, ironically, entrained air (micro-dieseling I hadn't heard of).

http://www.machinery...5/oil-breakdown

http://www.machinery...radation-causes

 

 Have fun,

Frank


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#40 OFFLINE   bluefever

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:40 AM

has anyone possibly taken any pictures of where the drain, fill and check plugs are on the c-max?








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