ptjones Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Unless you lease. Then the money comes off the purchase price. I'm leasing my 2016 for three years, then buying it on a three year load. Actually cheaper than buying it out right.I'm wondering if you compared the total cost leasing and buying for 6 yrs vs buying for 6 yrs? Usually Leases aren't that great of a deal. :sad: Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) I'm wondering if you compared the total cost leasing and buying for 6 yrs vs buying for 6 yrs? Usually Leases aren't that great of a deal. :sad: PaulFord currently is offering incentives (includes FIT credit) on leasing of $8,257 on the Energi as shown below. The issue is the residual value and market price when the lease is up. You may be able to buy a used C-Max for less than the residual value when the lease is up. In which case, you should walk away from the lease. This lease shows a monthly payment of $259 for 36 months or $9,324. You can buy it for $27,930 (includes Retail Bonus Customer Cash of $1,900 and XPlan discount) and 0% financing for up to 60 months. Of course you can always negotiate and likely get a better deal than the XPlan. Let's assume you use the $4006 FIT credit to reduce the $27,930 to $23,926. The monthly payment for 60 months would be about $399 per month. So, after 36 months you'd still owe $9,570 and have paid $14,356. To further complicate matters, let's say you invested the difference in payments to a tax free fund for 36 months. So, the future value of an investment of $140 a month at say 3% after tax return would be about $5,267 or one is ahead about $267 leasing vs purchasing after 36 months due to the investment. If I walk away from the lease after 36 months, I'm out-of-pocket about $9,057 since I invested the difference in payment. This means that if I buy the C-Max and choose to sell the C-Max after 36 months of ownership, I need to sell it for $9,570 (the amount I still owe) + $14,356 (the amount paid for financing for 36 months) - $9,057 (the net amount I paid to lease) = $14,869 to break even with the lease. How does this amount compare with the actual residual value of the lease in the contract. Let's assume Ford charges nothing for the lease just like the 0% financing for 60 months. Then, the residual value would likely be $21,573 - $9,324 = $14,249 which is virtually the same as one needs to sell the car for if one owned it. :) Ford then is indifferent to whether one leases the car or finances the car through them. It's the consumer's choice. However, although Ford may be indifferent to lease vs buy, a consumer needs to consider many more factors into his lease vs buy decision. Each consumer will likely have a different view depending on their situation. There is no right or wrong answer. It depends. Edited April 24, 2017 by Plus 3 Golfer ptjones and JAZ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) I'm wondering if you compared the total cost leasing and buying for 6 yrs vs buying for 6 yrs? Usually Leases aren't that great of a deal. :sad: PaulIn my case, they made it worth my while. I would never have been able to get the tax rebate on my own - that was a major factor. That was the main point of my post, responding to a post about not being able to claim the tax rebate. Mine was a complicated deal. I had to turn in my former lease 6 months early - the miles were really weighing on my mind, and now they don't. But they gave me 12K off in rebates, and also covered 1/2 of the lease turn in fees. I considered buying out the lease immediately, but it is much better to finish the lease and then buy - about 30 bucks per month better. So I didn't finance it. You are correct, all things being equal, it is generally better to buy. EDIT: There is one other factor - with a lease at this residual, I can walk away from the car if it turns out bad. I don't think it will; my 2016 Energi is a nicer drive and just seems all around better than my 2014 was. Edited April 25, 2017 by stevedebi ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 In my post above on leasing vs buying, I didn't mention the heavier discounts on MY 2016 Energis until 7/5/2017 if you can still find them. For example, the discounts for leasing are $13,007 (includes FIT credit) and for purchase are $8,500. Add in the FIT credit if purchasing and one can own a 2016 C-Max Energi (XPlan pricing) for about $19,000 or perhaps less. The 2016 Hybrid will be about $20,000 with all discounts and XPlan pricing. So, why buy a Hybrid if the Energi costs less? Of course, one needs to see a dealer as one might even get either for less. ptjones and obob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 I always use the Z plan and what amazes me is the discount I can get if I buy a F150, my brother in-law buys one every four years and always gets about twenty grand off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted May 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) 720 C-MAX Hybrids and 749 C-MAX Energi Hybrids sold during April 2017 for 1469 combined sales. Once again, the Energi plug-in Hybrid models continue the recent trend of out-selling the Hybrid models. Here's an interesting way of putting C-MAX monthly sales in perspective with F-150 monthly sales. Exactly the same chart as above, but the top is now scaled for 70,000, instead of 4,000.Why?Ford sold over 70,000 F-150's last month. Ford has sold a grand total of 86,000 C-MAX Hybrids and 36,000 C-MAX Energi Hybrids, a grand total of slightly less than 123,000, EVER, far less than two months of F-150 sales. Clearly US C-MAX sales don't really matter much in the big picture, except perhaps for EPA fleet averages.Ford is a TRUCK company. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2017/05/sales/april17-sales.pdfhttp://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ As always, prior month charts and table are removed because current month entries contain all prior data. Edited June 3, 2017 by kostby ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 And again FORD is pushing the Energi with Dealers. :sad: Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiling Jack Posted May 6, 2017 Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 Yes. And the "beat" goes on.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 I wonder if FORD knew that so many CMAX Hybrids were coming off leases and they wouldn't be able to compete with them? :headscratch: It is curious that I see CMAXes all the time now. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMax Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 This past January we traded in our 2013 C-Max SE with 95,000 for a 2016 C-Max SEL. Leather seats, backup cam, heated front seats really top of the line model. It had 4000 miles on it and had never been owned by anyone so it was sold as a brand new car to us with a full warranty. Total price included taxes was $21,000.00 and they gave us a generous $7000.00 for our 2013 model. I had the car totally checked and serviced at my local dealer and they said it is in perfect condition. The only sad part here is the C-Max won't be available the next time we get a new car! ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowStorm Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 But I'm just hoping the new Model E line-up will have an even better version with under-floor batteries! Enjoy your new car. markd and ptjones 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted June 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) 880 C-MAX Hybrids and 950 C-MAX Energi plug-in Hybrids sold during May 2017 for a total of 1830.Once again, assisted by attractive leases, incentives, and perhaps the less expensive Energi SE Hybrid, Energi plug-ins outsold the Hybrids. Led by a 76.58% year-over-year increase in Energi plug-in Hybrid sales, combined C-MAX sales were up 24.57% year-over-year, one of the few bright spots in Ford passenger car sales in May. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2017/06/01/may-17-sales.pdfhttp://www.hybridcars.com/may-2017-dashboard/http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ Interesting footnote: Ford has over half-a-million unsold cars, trucks, and SUV's in inventory. That's a 59-day supply, on average, and right at the theoretical ideal of a 60-day supply. As always, prior month table and charts are removed because current month images contain all prior data. Edited July 8, 2017 by kostby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZgman Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 Do you have a sales breakdown by state? I ask because every time I go to California, I see about 4 or 5 times as many C-Maxs as here in AZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted July 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) I read the Ford.com monthly sales report like this one https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/06/01/may-17-sales.html and list sales numbers specific to C-MAX Hybrids and C-MAX Energi Hybrids. Ford reports an overall number, but other two sources, insideevs.com and hybridcars.com further break out sales by Hybrid and Plug-In Hybrid (Energi). Ford doesn't usually break out sales by state in their public monthly sales calls and reports, unless it was a new sales record. (e.g. "Texas Ford dealers sold a record 17,000 F-150's during the month of March, 20xx." Occasionally the other two publications might list specifics in the articles accompanying their monthly sales reports, but not on a regular basis. It's easy to understand why you see more Ford hybrids in California:1. More residents: 39 million residents in California, vs 7 million residents in Arizona2. State exemptions for some single-occupant hybrid-type vehicles in carpool lanes. California continues to offer single-occupant 'diamond lane' or 'carpool lane' exemptions for selected plug-in-hybrid vehicles, battery-electric vehicles, and others: https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm California residents who purchase plug-in hybrids like the C-MAX Energi Hybrid models, battery-electric vehicles like the Ford Focus Electric, and fuel-cell vehicles like the Toyota Mirai FCV can also qualify for rebates. As more and more Californians choose energy-efficient vehicles, the rules keep changing:https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aqip/cvrp.htm Edited July 2, 2017 by kostby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raadsel Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 Additionally, gas is more expensive in California; about 70 cents more than the national average currently. ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZgman Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Gas here in Casa Grande, AZ last week was $1.99 at Sam's Club, in Santa Rosa, CA 2 weeks ago, it was $2.99 obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) I payed $1.85 for Reg in Columbus, GA at a Raceway Station last night. :) BTW that was for my F150, not MADMAX. :) Paul Edited July 4, 2017 by ptjones obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) A combined 1902, 966 C-MAX Hybrids and 936 Energi Hybrids sold in June 2017, down about 10% from year ago sales.Ford car sales were down 23% from year-ago results, though truck & SUV sales continue at a record pace. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2017/07/03/june-17-sales.pdfhttp://insideevs.com/june-2017-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/http://www.hybridcars.com/june-2017-dashboard/ Charts and tables are updated. As always, prior month chart and tables are removed because latest post contains all prior data. Edited August 3, 2017 by kostby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 $2.05 here in Indianapolis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted August 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) A combined 1839 C-MAX Hybrid and C-MAX Energi Hybrids sold in July 2017.995 C-MAX Hybrids and 844 C-MAX Energi Hybrids sold during July 2017, a slight 1.5% decline from 2016. For the second month in a row, C-MAX Energi Hybrid models outsold Fusion Energi Hybrids.Larger incentives on C-MAX or maybe a constrained 2018 Fusion Energi Hybrid supply? https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2017/08/01/july-17-sales.pdfhttp://insideevs.com/july-plug-in-ev-sales-strong-in-the-us/http://www.hybridcars.com/july-2017-dashboard/ As always, prior month chart and tables are removed because latest post contains all prior data. Edited September 6, 2017 by kostby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) A combined total of 1714 C-MAX Hybrids and C-MAX Energi Hybrids were sold during August 2017.1009 C-MAX Hybrids and 705 C-MAX Energi Hybrids sold during August. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2017/09/01/aug-17-sales.pdfhttp://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/http://www.hybridcars.com/august-2017-dashboard/ As always, prior month chart and tables are removed because latest post contains all prior data. Edited October 5, 2017 by kostby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Sales are up again selling more Hybrids than NRG's. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted October 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) 820 C-MAX Hybrids and 683 C-MAX Energi Hybrids sold in September 2017 for a combined total of 1503, a 5.3% increase over 2016. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2017/09/30/17sept-sales-release.pdfhttp://www.hybridcars.com/september-2017-dashboard/https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ As always, prior month chart and tables are removed because latest post contains all prior data. Interesting sales figures for a numbers nerd:About 25% of all Fords sold during September were fleet sales. Ford sold over 7000 Hybrids in September, but the vast majority were Fusion Hybrid sedans, not C-MAX Hybrid hatchbacks! About 33% of Ford Fusions sold in September were Hybrids or plug-in Energi Hybrids, 7000 of 21000. For comparison, 100% of C-MAX's sold in the US are hybrids or plug-in hybrids. ;) The Ford Fusion Hybrid sedan was the best-selling Hybrid vehicle in the US during September 2017, with 6326 sold, more than second-place Toyota RAV4 at 5759, and Toyota Prius Liftback at 5722. The fourth best-selling US hybrid was the GMC Sierra mild-hybrid pickup truck with 2992. The C-MAX Hybrid comes in thirteenth for the month, just behind the Lexus RX400/450h, but ahead of the Toyota Prius V wagon. Anyone recall that Toyota once avoided comparing the Prius V wagon to the C-MAX because the vehicles weren't in the same category? Among plug-in hybrids, the Toyota Prius Prime was the top-seller with 1899, and Chevrolet Volt was second with 1453 sold. Ford Fusion Energi Hybrid was ranked third with 763 sold, and the Ford C-MAX Energi Hybrid closely following in fourth place with 683 sold. Edited November 3, 2017 by kostby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted November 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 1092 C-MAX Hybrids and 569 C-MAX Energi Hybrids sold during October 2017 for a total of 1661 combined. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2017/11/01/oct-17-sales-rls.pdfhttp://www.hybridcars.com/october-2017-dashboard/https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ As always, prior month chart and tables are removed because latest post contains all prior data. Edited December 6, 2017 by kostby obob and ptjones 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted December 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) 939 C-MAX Hybrids and 523 C-MAX Energi Hybrids sold during November 2017 for a total of 1462 combined. If you're keeping score, 1,462 is 0.69364381% of November 2017 Ford US combined sales of 210,771 vehicles. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2017/12/01/nov17-sales-rls.pdfhttp://www.hybridcars.com/november-2017-dashboard/https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ As always, prior month chart and tables are removed because latest post contains all prior data. Edited January 5, 2018 by kostby obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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