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Energi but not use the plug / Pointless?


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33 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Hybrid dude

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:17 PM

Would there be any point in getting an Energi if one doesn't have an easy way to plug it in, for example, living in an apartment building?

In other words, can an Energi recharge itself, simply by driving and braking, and thus be able to go 20+ miles on EV without being plugged in?

 

Or, would it require so many more driving miles to charge that the savings wouldn't be worth it?

 

Disregard cargo space and price for this hypothetical situation.









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#2 OFFLINE   Wnuk

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:44 PM

Those with an energi may know more but i believe the energi have two HV batteries. The larger batter is for the 20 miles on EV alone. Once that batter depletes then you are running on the second smaller batter in hybrid mode like a regular CMAX. The larger battery does not get recharged by coasting, braking, or ICE runs. It needs to be plugged in to recharge it.



#3 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:53 PM

Would there be any point in getting an Energi if one doesn't have an easy way to plug it in, for example, living in an apartment building?

In other words, can an Energi recharge itself, simply by driving and braking, and thus be able to go 20+ miles on EV without being plugged in?

 

Or, would it require so many more driving miles to charge that the savings wouldn't be worth it?

 

Disregard cargo space and price for this hypothetical situation.

 

Probably not unless you have access to public charging stations and can spend the time necessary to allow a full charge.

 

There is only one HVB (not two like Wnuk believes).  It's my understanding that when the EV allocated portion of the HVB is depleted, the NRG operates in "hybrid mode".   So,in normal driving, the PCM algorithm would operate the system like a C-Max Hybrid. There would likely be little opportunity to increase energy storage much beyond the normal limits of hybrid operation.  One exception would be If you had significant elevation change for many miles, there would likely be excess energy that could be captured and stored in the NRG that would otherwise go to waste in the Hybrid once the HVB in the Hybrid was full.

 

I'm not aware of any way to run ICE in the NRG solely to charge the HVB.  Even if there was a way, it would be significantly less efficient to charge the NRG with ICE vs kWh from the local utility.


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#4 OFFLINE   jdbob

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:27 PM

I'm not aware of any way to run ICE in the NRG solely to charge the HVB.  Even if there was a way, it would be significantly less efficient to charge the NRG with ICE vs kWh from the local utility.

 

Unfortunately there isn't. Normally it would be very inefficient to charge the HVB from the ICE. However there are good reasons to have that mode and other manufacturers offer it (even the Volt I think). For instance, if you find yourself entering a city center where there a fees for emissions or where only emissions free vehicles are allowed and you've already gone into hybrid mode. These restrictions are coming soon to some European cities, and who knows, maybe even to the states in a couple of decades.

 

There is nothing in the hardware to prevent an Energi model from doing this, it's just a matter of Ford doing the software, yeah - right. I'd be surprised if they ever fixed the bug where it drops out of EV-Later when you turn the car on and off.



#5 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:13 PM

With the NGR you can add EV miles to the battery after the hybrid portion has been filled up. I have been able to

add 7 miles of EV power by regen on hill descents out here in CA. I could have managed more, but wanted to use

the EV power. The other advantage of the NRG is if you live in an area that has carpool lanes, it qualifies for HOV

stickers (here in CA anyways) so you can run the lane with only 1 person in the car if you get the stickers.

 

IMO, the rebates on the NRG make it about the same price as a Hybrid. You could always change area's/living places

in the future and utilize the EV charging part of the car. If you didn't buy the NRG, you wouldn't be able to if things changed.

The price aside, I would only buy the NRG.........It's the only choice for me even if, I couldn't use the plug-in charging right away.

 

For me, battery overhead is the only shortcoming of the Hybrid C-Max.

You'll learn to add EV mileage to the battery over time and you'll be glad you purchased the NRG, IMO :happy feet:


Edited by drdiesel1, 22 August 2014 - 08:18 PM.

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#6 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:38 PM

Haven't I also heard that the NRG has a compressor driven heater (a heat pump) so you can have heat without running the ICE?



#7 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:41 PM

Haven't I also heard that the NRG has a compressor driven heater (a heat pump) so you can have heat without running the ICE?

Nope. It has an electric heating element with a closed loop control valve to circulate coolant into the heater core without

warming the engine block. It works off the HVB power supply.


Edited by drdiesel1, 22 August 2014 - 10:41 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:51 PM

Sorry, what is NRG? Just an abbreviation of ENERGI? 



#9 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:20 AM

Sorry, what is NRG? Just an abbreviation of ENERGI? 

YES.



#10 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:40 AM

I can understand how ICE is handy to avoid writing "Internal Combustion Engine". 

 

But IMHO we can all muster up the energy to type ENERGI, no?

TTYL


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#11 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:36 AM

I can understand how ICE is handy to avoid writing "Internal Combustion Engine". 

 

But IMHO we can all muster up the energy to type ENERGI, no?

TTYL

It's become NRG, just like all the other acronyms since the early 80's and especially in the hybrid sites.



#12 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:45 AM

Would there be any point in getting an Energi if one doesn't have an easy way to plug it in, for example, living in an apartment building?

In other words, can an Energi recharge itself, simply by driving and braking, and thus be able to go 20+ miles on EV without being plugged in?

 

Or, would it require so many more driving miles to charge that the savings wouldn't be worth it?

 

Disregard cargo space and price for this hypothetical situation.

Have you talked to your apartment management about an EV? Do you have an assigned parking space? Do you park in a garage or outside?

 

I brought up the idea casually to our community manager at our apartment complex last winter. One day I was at the office to pick up a package and he came over to me excitedly to say that the family that owns our apartment complex is a big fan of EVs and that they want to encourage residents to "go green" by driving electric. That set things in motion where now we have a Focus Electric. Our community manager is planning to get an EV soon to replace his 8-cyl turbo Mercedes that gets less than 15 MPG and costs him over $100/week in gasoline.

 

You never know what can happen if you ask the question.


Edited by hybridbear, 23 August 2014 - 07:46 AM.


#13 OFFLINE   Hybrid dude

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:33 PM

Thanks for the advice. It's a condo and yes, I have an assigned outside spot. I also do a lot of work with the association. I'm sure if I wanted a charging station, I could convince the trustees, but I would have to pay the entire bill, which, from various electrician's quotes, will be thousands, not including the actual charging unit.



#14 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:20 PM

Just for grins after seeing this thread I tried to see how much I could regen on a short highway trip on level roads while in hybrid mode with a depleted battery.  I have a scangauge II that gives me the battery SOC in numerical percentages.  I was able to charge 10% back (3 miles estimate) by simply switching back to "EV Now" mode before I came to a full stop from highway speeds (55-70mph) and returning to "EV Later" (hybrid mode) before taking off.  I will now add this strategy to my out of town trips!   :shift:

 

 

Yes, there are some owners who only get charges from public stations, work, or visiting family/friends.  Then there are others who never charge and only bought a PHEV for the HOV stickers.


Edited by fotomoto, 24 August 2014 - 02:25 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 03:07 PM

Just for grins after seeing this thread I tried to see how much I could regen on a short highway trip on level roads while in hybrid mode with a depleted battery.  I have a scangauge II that gives me the battery SOC in numerical percentages.  I was able to charge 10% back (3 miles estimate) by simply switching back to "EV Now" mode before I came to a full stop from highway speeds (55-70mph) and returning to "EV Later" (hybrid mode) before taking off.  I will now add this strategy to my out of town trips!   :shift:

 

 

Yes, there are some owners who only get charges from public stations, work, or visiting family/friends.  Then there are others who never charge and only bought a PHEV for the HOV stickers.

You don't need to switch back and forth to gain an EV charge buildup.  Just leave it in EV later and continue to build it.



#16 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

Thanks for the advice. It's a condo and yes, I have an assigned outside spot. I also do a lot of work with the association. I'm sure if I wanted a charging station, I could convince the trustees, but I would have to pay the entire bill, which, from various electrician's quotes, will be thousands, not including the actual charging unit.

You do know the NRG comes with a 120 voltage charging cord, right ? Most condo's have a 120 volt outlet in/near the parking stalls.

The supplied charger has a 25 foot cord. If an outlet is close, just plug it in.


Edited by drdiesel1, 24 August 2014 - 03:10 PM.


#17 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:21 PM

Um........you could get in alot of trouble plugging in your Energi into parking lot 120v outlets.  Most strata councils and/or landlords would object to drivers helping themselves to electricty that is communal.  It's one thing to plug in your vacuum for 20 minutes...



#18 OFFLINE   Hybrid dude

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 01:34 PM

Nice to know it comes with a 110 cord and aware of communal electricity consequences, the depiction of which would perhaps make a funny New Yorker cartoon.


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#19 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 03:40 PM

Thanks for the advice. It's a condo and yes, I have an assigned outside spot. I also do a lot of work with the association. I'm sure if I wanted a charging station, I could convince the trustees, but I would have to pay the entire bill, which, from various electrician's quotes, will be thousands, not including the actual charging unit.

Is there an electrical supply near your space? As is mentioned above all you'd need is a 120V outlet, nothing more.

 

Our apartment complex paid for the 240V EVSE unit for us because they want to encourage residents to switch to EVs. They have an electrician on the maintenance staff who could do the installation. They did not bother to run this circuit to a separate meter because that would have been expensive. They just wired our 240V charging station into an existing panel that had open capacity. We then pay them a fixed rate of $35 per month for our electricity use. This was calculated based on a couple assumptions:

  1. We'll drive about 1000 miles/month
  2. We'll achieve the EPA rating for Wh/mi which accounts for charging losses

To validate these assumptions we're using one of the trip odometers to track our monthly mileage and electricity use. I then save these pictures and send them to our community manager.

 

You might be able to work out a similar arrangement.

 

Their goal was to promote EV adoption by residents by providing free access to 240V EVSEs for any residents who own a plug-in vehicle. They also do not want to make a profit on the electricity because they believe that would be unethical, thus the method for calculating electricity use and payment. However, payment must be simple, thus the fixed amount per month.


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#20 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 11:37 PM

35 bucks it what I see as additional on my PG&E bill, so that's a great deal you have with the management.








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