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Energi but not use the plug / Pointless?


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33 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   MichaelM

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:49 AM

At one point in time our local power company had a rebate program (up to $2500) to help with the cost of installing a 240v EV charging station for homeowners. Don't know if it could extend to condo/apartment complexes, but may be worth investigating. I decided to go with hybrid C-Max so I don't know if it was only during the initial gov't rebate phase or if it was a green initiative that is ongoing. 

 

Plug-in Electric Vehicle Incentive Program

To help customers make the transition to using plug-in electric vehicles in Michigan, Consumers Energy is offering a limited incentive program for home charging stations.

Volt%20Charging%20cropped-sized.jpg?n=21Qualified Consumers Energy electric customers who enroll in the program will be able to receive a reimbursement of up to $2,500 from Consumers Energy to help cover the purchase, installation and required home wiring of a Level 2 charging station.
Any cost or expenses beyond $2,500 are the responsibility of the customer.

This program is limited only to the first 2,500 participants.

Get the PEV Reimbursement Application and download the Consumers Energy's Plug-in 


Edited by MichaelM, 02 September 2014 - 10:24 AM.








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#22 OFFLINE   Hybrid dude

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 07:09 AM

Since a lot of time has gone by since the date of my original post, and there are many more C-Max owners, I'd like to know if anyone has further thoughts on this topic of using an Energi but never plugging it in.

 

Thanks



#23 OFFLINE   livesmith

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 11:13 AM

Since a lot of time has gone by since the date of my original post, and there are many more C-Max owners, I'd like to know if anyone has further thoughts on this topic of using an Energi but never plugging it in.

 

Thanks

I've got a 2013 Energi.  If you got one and never plugged it in you'd only be at a negative state.

-You'd spend more money to get the car

-You'd spend more money on gas since you'd get worse mileage.(more weight in the car and a lower final drive ratio)

 

If you don't plug it in, you've essentially got a slightly worse version of the C-Max Hybrid.

 

That said, if you happened to go down something like Pike's Peak routinely then yes you would be able to fill up the larger battery and use it later so in that particular scenario you *might* end up with better overall mileage depending on conditions...


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#24 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 12:12 PM

Since a lot of time has gone by since the date of my original post, and there are many more C-Max owners, I'd like to know if anyone has further thoughts on this topic of using an Energi but never plugging it in.

 

Thanks

I keep track of the cost of electric, and calculate if it would be cheaper to run gas only in my Energi. So far I'm still saving around 4-5 bucks per fill up. It all depends on how expensive the gas is and how much electricity costs. I think the break even point is around 2 dollars at the moment here. But gas is at 2.75 in LA right now, and electric is around 14.5 cents per KWH.

 

You would be lugging around 300 extra lbs of weight, but it would achieve good MPG in town. I get 45 when I go all hybrid mode in town.

 

For a new purchase, it makes little sense, unless the price is the same for the Energi and Hybrid because of incentives. It was pretty close when I leased in 2014.



#25 OFFLINE   markd

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 05:10 PM

I don't have an Energi but I spend $175 a month for electricity and $20 a month for gas. I didn't think it was worthwhile.

#26 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 11:38 AM

I don't have an Energi but I spend $175 a month for electricity and $20 a month for gas. I didn't think it was worthwhile.

I spend between 200 and 400 a month for electricity, and around 30 per month for gas - I generally fill up once per month or maybe every 6 weeks.

 

Both gas and electric are expensive in LA.


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#27 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 12:53 PM

I've lurked on this thread for a long time and read most of the responses.  Some of the answers that occurred to me have been discussed, but several have not.

 

Thought I would sum up.

 

Here's smiling Jack's list of the top 10 advantages of the C-max Energi vs. the Hybrid that can be realized even if you don't plug in:

(several of which have been discussed in posts above)

 

10.  The rear load floor is between waist and thigh high - the perfect height to load and unload heavy objects without straining you back.  Think of a case of beer, for example.

         (No kidding - I REALLY enjoy this!)

 

9.  When the Energi rear seats are folded down there is a rise where they meet the rear load floor.  This means that you can put a slide-able package there and not need to worry that it will slide back when you "floor it."

 

8.  The Energi has a larger gas tank.

 

7.  The Energi can deliver more power to the wheels.  IIRC it is about 30 HP.  This, combined with the Energi's lower final drive ratio can make the Energi quicker in acceleration (particularly at street speeds) in spite of its greater weight.

 

6.  The heavier battery in the rear results in more even front-to-rear weight distribution.  This should promote better handling.

 

5.  (As has been discussed above)  You might qualify for an HOV sticker.

 

4. (Also as ha been discussed) The Energi could be cheaper to buy.  As was the case when I bought my 2013 new, the current sticker prrice of a Energi is higher than the (similarly equipped) Hybrid SEL by almost exactly the amount of the Federal tax credit; so if you qualify for the whole amount of that credit and you also qualify for a state tax benefit or rebate, the Energi would be cheaper in the end.

 

3. (Also as has been discussed)  It is indeed possible to re-charge the whole battery without plugging in, either while under ICE power or while regen braking.  Depending upon the nature of your trips, this could result in significant boosts in EV range and/or overall mpg.

 

2.  The charging port on the front fender is like a Badge of Honor.  The green-wise public definitely notice it and admire you for it.  In some circles its a status symbol.  I even got a  "thumbs up" form a Tesla driver.

 

1.  (to be continued)


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#28 OFFLINE   C-MaxSea

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 09:00 PM

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee EEE;  If we didn't  :wub2: :love_shower: :wub2: our Non plug-in CMH so much, we'd drive an ENERGIII !
 

Good points SJ, but ...................


Edited by C-MaxSea, 05 June 2016 - 10:48 AM.


#29 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 12:02 PM

I've lurked on this thread for a long time and read most of the responses.  Some of the answers that occurred to me have been discussed, but several have not.

 

Thought I would sum up.

 

Here's smiling Jack's list of the top 10 advantages of the C-max Energi vs. the Hybrid that can be realized even if you don't plug in:

(several of which have been discussed in posts above)

 

10.  The rear load floor is between waist and thigh high - the perfect height to load and unload heavy objects without straining you back.  Think of a case of beer, for example.

         (No kidding - I REALLY enjoy this!)

 

9.  When the Energi rear seats are folded down there is a rise where they meet the rear load floor.  This means that you can put a slide-able package there and not need to worry that it will slide back when you "floor it."

 

8.  The Energi has a larger gas tank.

 

7.  The Energi can deliver more power to the wheels.  IIRC it is about 30 HP.  This, combined with the Energi's lower final drive ratio can make the Energi quicker in acceleration (particularly at street speeds) in spite of its greater weight.

 

6.  The heavier battery in the rear results in more even front-to-rear weight distribution.  This should promote better handling.

 

5.  (As has been discussed above)  You might qualify for an HOV sticker.

 

4. (Also as ha been discussed) The Energi could be cheaper to buy.  As was the case when I bought my 2013 new, the current sticker prrice of a Energi is higher than the (similarly equipped) Hybrid SEL by almost exactly the amount of the Federal tax credit; so if you qualify for the whole amount of that credit and you also qualify for a state tax benefit or rebate, the Energi would be cheaper in the end.

 

3. (Also as has been discussed)  It is indeed possible to re-charge the whole battery without plugging in, either while under ICE power or while regen braking.  Depending upon the nature of your trips, this could result in significant boosts in EV range and/or overall mpg.

 

2.  The charging port on the front fender is like a Badge of Honor.  The green-wise public definitely notice it and admire you for it.  In some circles its a status symbol.  I even got a  "thumbs up" form a Tesla driver.

 

1.  (to be continued)

Just a note on HOV here in CA. The stickers have run out. You can register for the waiting list - if the legislature approves more stickers, they will issue them.

 

They ran out in December of 2015.


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#30 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:11 AM

bIn theory.

 

I kind of skimmed the thread and know there is mention of hill regen capacity but thought I would add some more on that.

 

I considered buying a house in Hawaii.  It was up a long long way up and steep.  To get to anything there was only one road down to the main road. There are situations like this in other areas.  So the idea would be to leave enough room in the battery to not waste the daily or multiple daily elevation drops, or just use gas to truly respond to the question of the thread.  In Hawaii and other places, this could work the other way too.  Like living at sea level and then making the trip to one of those telescopes on top of a mountain on a daily basis if you worked up there.  Just fill up the battery at home, or use the gas engine and charge it back up on the way down.  That's like 13800 feet.  

 

Note: I am not sure the C-Max battery could take so much charging, but perhaps a Tesla could.

 

Also need to consider the effect of humidity and salt on a hybrid in some areas of Hawaii.


Edited by obob, 01 July 2016 - 05:48 PM.


#31 OFFLINE   jackalopetx

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 08:55 AM

I've lurked on this thread for a long time and read most of the responses.  Some of the answers that occurred to me have been discussed, but several have not.

 

Thought I would sum up.

 

Here's smiling Jack's list of the top 10 advantages of the C-max Energi vs. the Hybrid that can be realized even if you don't plug in:

(several of which have been discussed in posts above)

 

10.  The rear load floor is between waist and thigh high - the perfect height to load and unload heavy objects without straining you back.  Think of a case of beer, for example.

         (No kidding - I REALLY enjoy this!)

 

9.  When the Energi rear seats are folded down there is a rise where they meet the rear load floor.  This means that you can put a slide-able package there and not need to worry that it will slide back when you "floor it."

 

8.  The Energi has a larger gas tank.

 

7.  The Energi can deliver more power to the wheels.  IIRC it is about 30 HP.  This, combined with the Energi's lower final drive ratio can make the Energi quicker in acceleration (particularly at street speeds) in spite of its greater weight.

 

6.  The heavier battery in the rear results in more even front-to-rear weight distribution.  This should promote better handling.

 

5.  (As has been discussed above)  You might qualify for an HOV sticker.

 

4. (Also as ha been discussed) The Energi could be cheaper to buy.  As was the case when I bought my 2013 new, the current sticker prrice of a Energi is higher than the (similarly equipped) Hybrid SEL by almost exactly the amount of the Federal tax credit; so if you qualify for the whole amount of that credit and you also qualify for a state tax benefit or rebate, the Energi would be cheaper in the end.

 

3. (Also as has been discussed)  It is indeed possible to re-charge the whole battery without plugging in, either while under ICE power or while regen braking.  Depending upon the nature of your trips, this could result in significant boosts in EV range and/or overall mpg.

 

2.  The charging port on the front fender is like a Badge of Honor.  The green-wise public definitely notice it and admire you for it.  In some circles its a status symbol.  I even got a  "thumbs up" form a Tesla driver.

 

1.  (to be continued)

 

The hybrid and Energi both have a 115hp electric motor right? So why only 30hp to the wheels from electric? Can the battery not handle that much amperage?



#32 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 09:28 AM

The hybrid and Energi both have a 115hp electric motor right? So why only 30hp to the wheels from electric? Can the battery not handle that much amperage?

 

Exactly !

 

Both the Hybrid and the Energi are limited by the amount of current that can be delivered to the electric motor, but the Energi can deliver more current.



#33 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 10:33 AM

Exactly !

 

Both the Hybrid and the Energi are limited by the amount of current that can be delivered to the electric motor, but the Energi can deliver more current.

I wonder about that, I know if my HVB is charged 55-60% SOC in the morning when it's cold my CMAX has surprising acceleration to 35mph when ICE turns on. :) I think it is a little more than 2 BARS power draw.  I suspect the HVB heats up pretty quickly do to it's smaller capacity, which limits current draw. ;) 

 

Paul 



#34 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 05:59 PM

I wonder about that, I know if my HVB is charged 55-60% SOC in the morning when it's cold my CMAX has surprising acceleration to 35mph when ICE turns on. :) I think it is a little more than 2 BARS power draw.  I suspect the HVB heats up pretty quickly do to it's smaller capacity, which limits current draw. ;)

 

Paul 

 

Paul,

 

Yes, and ithe acceleration is perhaps even more "surprising" in the Energi.

 

It has been well discussed on the Energi forum, and I believe pretty well accepted that the larger battery pack in the Energi can simply deliver more current, but still not enough to max out the motor.

 

Jack


Edited by Smiling Jack, 02 July 2016 - 06:19 PM.







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