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EV+ mode?


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36 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:27 PM

Forgive me for not searching, but I've been wondering about this for some time and never seen it mentioned.

 

Does anyone here *really* know how the EV+ mode works?  I understand the concept -- it "learns" how you drive in certain places you visit all the time, and then can switch to the battery and drain it a lot further down, right?  But I have assumptions and questions about this.

 

1) It only works when it "knows" you are coming to an end to your trip, right?  I mean, if it's going to drain the battery all the way down it does so on the assumption that you will then stop and the next time you start up you will then switch to the engine to charge it up again?   Is that true?

 

2) How often does it need to have you visit the same place?

 

The reason these two questions/issues occur to me is that the ONLY time (in 1500 miles so far, which I admit isn't a lot but it IS over the exact same routes over and over) it switches to EV+ mode for me is the very short time I get within a couple of blocks of our home.  It never does so coming back over those two blocks (when I start back out) which is why I assume 1).  

 

But it also never does it when I come to a stop at any of my tennis venues, which over the last six weeks I have done dozens of times, all driving in exactly the same way (I'm a creature of habit, so it isn't as if I change the speed or the manner in which I drive, which is *very* carefully).  I keep thinking that ONE day it will "know" those places but it never does and in terms of learning the route home to my garage it seemed to know that pretty quickly (within a couple of weeks of owning the car) so at this point I've been to those places at least as many times without any EV+ mode.

 

I'm not overly concerned about this -- I get good mpg and I think of the EV+ mode as just a kind of happy bonus that reminds me I'm nearly home.  But I'd love to know if anyone understands this in more detail so I can stop at least wondering.









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#2 OFFLINE   Jus-A-CMax

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:34 PM

EV+ allocates additional charge when you are near the most common stopping point. However, there is a limit to the SOC and then the car will kick in ICE to recharge if you go below that. The CMax does NOT allow you completely drain the Li-Ion - no way. I typically do not let it get that low as I do not want the car to start in ICE when I just turn it on, jus my peeve.

 

You can teach your CMax to learn the EV+ spot by turning the car ON&OFF (like you are starting the car and then turning it off) cycle about 11 times. I've had at most 3 locations on EV+ and I have not seen anymore number than that. Now, it will kick into the EV+ mode typically about 500 - 600 yards from your destination. I have one on the golf range and when I drive past it on the highway and not quite there yet, it will turn on - then it will turn off and as I come around to the entry road, it will find it and turn on back the EV+ so it's "circular range limit", if you get my drift.


Edited by Jus-A-CMax, 27 August 2014 - 03:36 PM.

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#3 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:44 PM

Logically, one would think that the EV+ algorithm would get the GPS coordinates and compute the distance to EV+ locations when the car is started and periodically thereafter.  

 

On start up EV+ does not come on if one is already inside the EV+ turn on range of an EV+ location.  Then, as Jus experiences once outside the range of an EV+ location, GPS turns on when he enters the EV+ range of the golf course, then turns off when he's briefly goes back outside the range, and then back on when he renters the EV+ range of the golf course.

 

So, the algorithm "knows" when you enter or exit an EV+ range.  All it needs to do is to compare your current location with your EV+ locations.  If you are inside EV+ range on start up, no EV+.  If your are outside the EV+ range, EV+ will turn on when you enter an EV+ range.



#4 OFFLINE   kostby

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:30 PM

Unless you live near a black-hole...

 

There are apparently some "shadows" in GPS satellite coverage, perhaps because of the orientation of the GPS antenna within the vehicle dashboard that seem to affect our EV+.

When I approach home from the north, the car gets within 100-150 yards before EV+ activates. From the south and from the east, it's closer to 500 yards. It's impossible to approach home from the west because we live on the last north-south road in the subdivision, without any access from the west.

 

One other note: A dead 12-volt battery apparently clears any stored EV+ locations.


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#5 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:43 PM

I assume then from the "turn the car on and off about 11 times" that that's about how many times it takes for a location to get stored.  If so, I ought to be approaching this (or right at it) with both of my tennis locations (I play at two places, each two times a week, and we've had the car coming up on six weeks).  For fun I'll wait and see if in the next week or two it "remembers" both of them.

 

Again, it's no big deal but just something I wonder about (I really don't know if it truly gets you better gas mileage or not -- there's no such thing as a free lunch and I assume that running the battery that far down just means it will have to get that much more charged the next time you start off).



#6 OFFLINE   scottwood2

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 09:04 AM

This tech is cool and it would make sense to me for a plug in.  I am having a hard time understanding this for a standard hybrid.  is there a loss in SOC for the vehicle just sitting there where you want the charge to be low?  Maybe I could see this helping in the colder months where the ICE has to warm up anyway so it can charge the battery while warming up.  Is there something else I am missing? 

 

Thx



#7 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 01:57 PM

I assume then from the "turn the car on and off about 11 times" that that's about how many times it takes for a location to get stored.  If so, I ought to be approaching this (or right at it) with both of my tennis locations (I play at two places, each two times a week, and we've had the car coming up on six weeks).  For fun I'll wait and see if in the next week or two it "remembers" both of them.

 

Again, it's no big deal but just something I wonder about (I really don't know if it truly gets you better gas mileage or not -- there's no such thing as a free lunch and I assume that running the battery that far down just means it will have to get that much more charged the next time you start off).

It's 11 key cycles in a certain period of time. We've found that locations visited once a week do not register. Locations visited three times a week do. I'm not sure about places visited twice a week.

 

This tech is cool and it would make sense to me for a plug in.  I am having a hard time understanding this for a standard hybrid.  is there a loss in SOC for the vehicle just sitting there where you want the charge to be low?  Maybe I could see this helping in the colder months where the ICE has to warm up anyway so it can charge the battery while warming up.  Is there something else I am missing? 

 

Thx

The theory is that on start up the ICE will be cold and thus will not be able to turn off immediately. Thus, having a low SOC allows the car to place more load on the ICE during that warm-up period. I don't find it useful because I know that I can get better gas mileage by keeping my SOC near half when arriving home because it allows me to get out to the main road before engaging the ICE the first time. Then, acceleration on that road is long enough to get the ICE up to operating temp in the summer so I never have the ICE running at idle. If I have too low an SOC when I get home then the ICE turns on too early and I sit at a red light with the ICE idling.


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#8 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 02:39 PM

Those are great observations, HB.

 

Well, I guess we'll find out about the "two times a week" as if it doesn't get to EV+ by next week it will be proven to be false (because by then I will have surely gone to both tennis venues at least 12 times, each twice a week).  As I said, I don't particularly worry about it because I'm not sure it makes much difference in the long run and, quite frankly, if the only time it ever gets to plus mode is when we come home that's "special" (since my wife only works part time and I'm retired there isn't any place other than home we drive to more than twice a week.  Well, some weeks the supermarket, I guess.  Have to keep an eye on that and see).



#9 OFFLINE   ScubaDadMiami

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 10:57 PM

I know that I can get better gas mileage by keeping my SOC near half when arriving home because it allows me to get out to the main road before engaging the ICE the first time. Then, acceleration on that road is long enough to get the ICE up to operating temp in the summer so I never have the ICE running at idle. If I have too low an SOC when I get home then the ICE turns on too early and I sit at a red light with the ICE idling.

I do the same sort of thing. If I don't have enough charge when I approach my home EV+ zone, I'll intentionally do a 2 bar burn to force one last charge that will get me inside of my parking garage, to my spot, and then still have enough juice for my exit to the roadway on my next departure.

 

When ICE first turns on, it will stay on long enough to warm up. I plan for that to be the time when I get my first charge of the departure. Since the first start up will actually draw down juice from the HVB while the initial ICE warm up phase is going on (you'll see the arrow for the battery pointing down even though you have ICE running), when I am exiting the building and pulling out onto the roadway, I try to feather the pedal enough to EV slowly to about 25 to 30 MPH, having the HVB meter down to the lowest possible state before ICE makes its initial start. On most days, this makes the first half mile from my building's driveway exit all EV, making the timing of my first charge cost very little in fuel while getting the most charge on the HVB.

 

BTW, even when it is 96F outside, ICE still goes through a brief warm up phase during the initial start. So, ICE will initially run for a while no matter how warm it is.

 

You might think it would just be a good idea to turn off EV+. However, I leave it on to keep more choices available. There are times where things just don't work out, and I get home with less than an optimal charge. It happens.


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#10 OFFLINE   C-MaxSea

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:37 PM

+1 HB & Scuba.  We do everything we can to make the first ICE burn meaningful, IOW moving, and preferably on a flat or elevating grade, never descending. 
  
Ultimately for us I think EV+ may just be fluff - we still try to make it home with plenty of charge regardless of the EV+, and EV+ makes us work harder to do that - forced burns like Scuba. (Always nice to have enough charge to leave (or sneak around) the neighborhood in glorious EV silence :) )

Also, cracks me up to be 250' below our house (below a bluff) on a road and have the EV+ kick in with a major hill climb to go - EV, ya sure. ;)  Fortunately this is not our normal approach.

Nick


Edited by C-MaxSea, 30 August 2014 - 11:42 AM.


#11 OFFLINE   ScubaDadMiami

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:17 AM

Also, cracks me up to be 250' below our house (below a bluff) on a road and have the EV+ kick in with a major hill climb to go - EV, ya sure. ;)  

It makes sense that many people would want to stretch the battery as they arrive at home or work, and that an initial charge at start up would average out pretty well for them. I guess that this is probably why Ford developed the idea of EV+.

 

On the other hand, once you know what's what, you can manipulate to give even better numbers for your personal situation. Everybody from :noobie: to :superhero: wins.



#12 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 06:56 PM

There must be more to the algorithm than a simple radius/position sensor.  If I approach home from a direction that has a lot of hills and traffic, where I drive more aggressively EV+ does not activate. 

 

However, if I come from the other direction, on a relatively flat road with very predictable traffic, where I can coast and use EV more, EV+ engages within a mile from home or less.  If I deviate from that route by block  or two EV+ does not engage. 

 

The way it behaves, I think it might have at least partial route learning within a certain radius, but I am not a Ford engineer so I really don't know.


Edited by jestevens, 27 April 2015 - 07:01 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 12:30 AM

There could also be a minimum "time off" requirement in the algorithm.  We now have 2 EV+ locations but they are both where the car is left "overnight".  There are many other locations we have visited far more than 11 times and often at least once a week but no EV+.  After all, why set an EV+ location if the engine isn't going to really cool off?  (Maybe Jus' golf range stays open all night?)  Plus, I expect Ford wanted to limit the frequency of EV+ happening.



#14 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 09:33 AM

There must be more to the algorithm than a simple radius/position sensor.  If I approach home from a direction that has a lot of hills and traffic, where I drive more aggressively EV+ does not activate. 

 

However, if I come from the other direction, on a relatively flat road with very predictable traffic, where I can coast and use EV more, EV+ engages within a mile from home or less.  If I deviate from that route by block  or two EV+ does not engage. 

 

The way it behaves, I think it might have at least partial route learning within a certain radius, but I am not a Ford engineer so I really don't know.

All EV+ does is to increase the power level threshold of when ICE would otherwise come on.  I have never seen anything close to a one mile "range" for EV+ (but I don't pay much attention to it anymore) and I virtually always have a relatively high SOC approaching home as I slow down from high speed driving about 1+ miles from home. Since it is relatively flat and since the threshold will also increase at higher levels of SOC of the HVB, it is easier to stay in EV mode a long time sometimes until I get about 1/4 mile (street wise) or about 1/8 mile (as the crow flies) from home when EV+ illuminates and the ICE on threshold increases.  I suggest you look at the Empower Screen and you will see the Engine On/Off threshold level increase in EV+ mode.   Here's a quote from the owner's manual: "The EV indicator will display EV+ when this mode is active. You should see this approximately 1/8 mile (200 meters) from a frequent destination."

 

Wnen one drives aggressively, it is very likely that the power demand exceeds the threshold and ICE kicks in or one depletes the SOC in EV mode such that the threshold is lowered and it it more difficult to engage EV mode. 

 

 

Here's what Ford says in a news release: When the feature identifies frequent destinations, the way electric power is used changes. Specifically, when within a radius of 1/8 mile, or 200 meters, of a frequent stop, the vehicle has increased capability to stay in electric-only mode, the internal combustion engine stays off, and an “EV+” light appears on the dashboard.



#15 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 11:01 AM

Odd this would come up today. I have an Energi, so I usually don't end up in hybrid mode, but yesterday I stayed overnight away from home, and I arrived having run on hybrid mode for several miles. It went into EV+ near my destination. By then the battery was pretty low.

 

I was surprised this morning when I hit my start button - the ICE fired up! That is an odd feeling for the Energi.

 

I agree with other comments, that the EV+ mode is probably best left to the Energi models, where it gets us home with that last bit of battery, and then everything is charged up overnight. I kind of wonder if they used identical programming in the two vehicles so far as SOC is concerned, and EV+ got left over. After all, the Energi uses the hybrid programming on the highway - it is identical except that when going down long hills, the larger HVB allows more energy to be stored.

 

I got 46.5 in pure hybrid mode, BTW. But it was late and I wasn't trying many techniques. I can usually get 50-55 MPG in pure hybrid.



#16 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 01:16 PM

Here is a Puzzler:

 

My EV+ mode seems to work fine except for certain occasions.  Both my home and my office are set as EV+ locations, as are some othe frequent destinations.  Generally when I approach any set destination, the EV+ comes on and works correctly. Two exceptions, however, do occur for my most frequent destinations, home and the office.  When I travel directly from home to the office or from the office to home, EV+ does not come on.   If I leave home and go to another location (e.g. the post office) and then to the office and then back home,  EV+ comes on at the post office and at the office, but not at home.  Similarly, if I go from my home to my office, then to the post office and then later home, EV+ does not come on at my office, but does come on at the post office and at  home.  

 

Can anyone explain why?

 

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Edited by Smiling Jack, 29 April 2015 - 01:17 PM.


#17 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 01:44 PM

Here is a Puzzler:

 

My EV+ mode seems to work fine except for certain occasions.  Both my home and my office are set as EV+ locations, as are some othe frequent destinations.  Generally when I approach any set destination, the EV+ comes on and works correctly. Two exceptions, however, do occur for my most frequent destinations, home and the office.  When I travel directly from home to the office or from the office to home, EV+ does not come on.   If I leave home and go to another location (e.g. the post office) and then to the office and then back home,  EV+ comes on at the post office and at the office, but not at home.  Similarly, if I go from my home to my office, then to the post office and then later home, EV+ does not come on at my office, but does come on at the post office and at  home.  

 

Can anyone explain why?

 

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Can't really answer that one, apparently the 2014 Energi is different. My EV+ comes on every time I approach an EV+ destination. It is funny in the morning because one of my EV+ destinations is my in-laws house, which is right across from the school where I drop off the kids, so I end up in EV+ for essentially no reason, which then stops about a quarter mile from their house.



#18 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 02:57 PM

I drive past the dealership on the way to work. After SW upgrades, I frequently get EV+ driving by.

 

And as I've said before, EV+ is beneficial for hybrids, because it's best to store Li-ion batteries at low charge levels. High charge levels and heat are the enemy, especially in tandem. If I always park at low SOC, I've done my part.

 

As to Jack's issue, I can only add that I see both a distance and a temperature effect. The distance at which EV+ engages seems SOC dependent; a smart move in my book - more charge to drain, so start draining sooner. It also won't activate if the engine's cool. Took a while to split out short trips from engine temp, but I EV+ more easily in summer!

 

Have fun,

Frank



#19 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 03:40 PM

Interesting replies from Frank and Steve, but no correct answer yet.

 

(Yes, there is a known, definite, single, correct answer.)


Edited by Smiling Jack, 29 April 2015 - 03:42 PM.


#20 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 04:24 PM

Interesting replies from Frank and Steve, but no correct answer yet.

 

(Yes, there is a known, definite, single, correct answer.)

OK, I'll take a stab. Is it because Ford is tracking the time and location, and attempting EV+ only at final destinations?








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