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Get you C-MAX Hybrid Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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Best Highway Cruising Speed for MPG's

MPG Highway

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67 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   scottwood2

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 08:17 AM

For those that may not understand some of the highway mileage techniques mentioned, here is a picture of one application.

 

attachicon.gifHighway.jpg

 

1) Set the left screen to Empower.

2) Run the ICE enough to raise the indicated battery charge level to almost full.

3) Moderate the throttle so the white part of the load display (far left) is only slightly above the blue battery envelope. Keep the engine running. Don't let it go into electric. This will take some work and your right foot might get tired.

 

When all of this is working you can get an instantanous mileage reading as shown in the picture (60MPG) depending on conditions. Provided the road is flat and you don't come across traffic, you can keep this up for a while. Remember that if the ICE load falls inside of the battery envelope, the ICE will shut off and you will be running on electric only. This may seem great but as soon as the battery charge level drops and the ICE restarts the instantaneous mileage will drop. Then, it will take more work to get back to the state you were in before.

So if I am reading this right, the ICE is charging up the battery, supplying power to the wheels and the EV mode is also working?  I did not think of this before but the charging motor and drive motors are separate, I think?  









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#42 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 01:06 PM

Yes--sometimes the electric drive AND the ICE are both on--and charging the battery. 

 

I'm kind of on SnowStorm's side--I needed a nap after reading Rifleman's instructions (sorry, it sounded like a ton of work) but mainly I question the long term benefits over a 3 or 4 hour journey versus the magnificent ECO cruise.    


Edited by Adrian_L, 09 September 2014 - 05:55 PM.


#43 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 02:15 PM

P&G and Drafting isn't for everyone, but it's worth about 4mpg. Keeps me from being board on long trips. :shift:

 

Paul

 

I was curious about drafting and read the first couple pages of this thread.

 

FYI - http://www.bobistheo...opics/1152576/2

 

some quotes from the thread

 

"Mythbusters tested this & found that drafting behind a semi DOES save gas, but they also made a point to say that it should never be done because it's 100% unsafe."

 

"the mythbusters had a dodge magnum if i remember right. At 100 feet they had like a 10% increase"

 

"I was in the trucking business for 42 years retired now but I hated it when a car tailgated me.

I found that if I let my trailer drift over onto the shoulder and throw a few stones that got them off of my tail."

 

"Fuel mileage increased by a ton, around 50% or more if I remember correctly, following about 2 feet behind the semi"



#44 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 02:22 PM

So if I am reading this right, the ICE is charging up the battery, supplying power to the wheels and the EV mode is also working?  I did not think of this before but the charging motor and drive motors are separate, I think?  

Not quite. ICE has already charged up the battery and in HPRifleman's example.ICE is not being used to charge the battery further    

 

What is happening is like I stated in a prior post (Ford quote from manual and the graph).  .  MG1 (the generator) and MG2 (the traction motor) and ICE are physically connected via the planetary gear set.  To maintain this negative spit mode operation in the example, the conditions need to be "right" - generally flat or slight downhill terrain, high HVB SOC (algorithm will  run ICE / MG1 very, very little to charge HVB further) and usually the driver needs to control the throttle (speed / load requirements) to enter this mode,  In this mode, the PCM uses MG1 to slow down ICE rpm by operating as a motor (not a generator) and thus speeds up..  Thus, MG1 effectively "bleeds off" rpm from the gear set so ICE can slow down.   ICE rpm decreases to a more efficient operating point given the load requirements.  MG2 always spins proportionately with the wheels. The PCM then controls MG2 to make up any load requirement differences of ICE supplied power by either generating energy (regeneration) or by using energy (traction motor).  Thus, MG2 not ICE makes up minor difference in load like slight speed increase / decrease, like terrain changes (slight up / down hills) and so forth. 

 

The reason the instantaneous FE goes up is that is ICE is running very efficiently at lower rpm and virtually all the energy from ICE is propelling the car and not charging the HVB.  If one has a manual / DSG transmission in another car, it's similar to up-shifting to a higher gear to decrease ICE rpm from the lower gear.  This allows ICE to run more efficiently.  The drawback in a conventional car is that there may be very little torque for acceleration (the engine is lugging) in the higher gear  In the hybrid, this lack of ICE torque is made up by almost instantaneously by  MG2 should one want to accelerate quickly. 


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 09 September 2014 - 05:50 PM.

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#45 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 02:32 PM

I was curious about drafting and read the first couple pages of this thread.

 

FYI - http://www.bobistheo...opics/1152576/2

 

some quotes from the thread

 

"Mythbusters tested this & found that drafting behind a semi DOES save gas, but they also made a point to say that it should never be done because it's 100% unsafe."

 

"the mythbusters had a dodge magnum if i remember right. At 100 feet they had like a 10% increase"

 

"I was in the trucking business for 42 years retired now but I hated it when a car tailgated me.

I found that if I let my trailer drift over onto the shoulder and throw a few stones that got them off of my tail."

 

"Fuel mileage increased by a ton, around 50% or more if I remember correctly, following about 2 feet behind the semi"

I posted this before.

 

gallery_167_32_20917.jpg


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#46 OFFLINE   HPRifleman

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 05:46 PM

At 55 and "Provided the road is flat and you don't come across traffic", Eco-Cruise will do the same thing with no work at all.

 

Not in my experience. Every time I try to use Eco-Cruise I get lower mileage than I do with the manual method of keeping the battery charged and the engine load just above the electric threshold.



#47 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 06:11 PM

Interesting.  Have you ever been able to compare ICE rpm between Manual-Cruise and Eco-Cruise at the same speed and load conditions (battery "fully" charged as you showed it)?  Maybe Eco settles out at a different (higher?) rpm for some unknown reason.  Will try and keep an open mind but still not convinced. ;)



#48 OFFLINE   scottwood2

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:26 AM

Not quite. ICE has already charged up the battery and in HPRifleman's example.ICE is not being used to charge the battery further    

 

What is happening is like I stated in a prior post (Ford quote from manual and the graph).  .  MG1 (the generator) and MG2 (the traction motor) and ICE are physically connected via the planetary gear set.  To maintain this negative spit mode operation in the example, the conditions need to be "right" - generally flat or slight downhill terrain, high HVB SOC (algorithm will  run ICE / MG1 very, very little to charge HVB further) and usually the driver needs to control the throttle (speed / load requirements) to enter this mode,  In this mode, the PCM uses MG1 to slow down ICE rpm by operating as a motor (not a generator) and thus speeds up..  Thus, MG1 effectively "bleeds off" rpm from the gear set so ICE can slow down.   ICE rpm decreases to a more efficient operating point given the load requirements.  MG2 always spins proportionately with the wheels. The PCM then controls MG2 to make up any load requirement differences of ICE supplied power by either generating energy (regeneration) or by using energy (traction motor).  Thus, MG2 not ICE makes up minor difference in load like slight speed increase / decrease, like terrain changes (slight up / down hills) and so forth. 

 

The reason the instantaneous FE goes up is that is ICE is running very efficiently at lower rpm and virtually all the energy from ICE is propelling the car and not charging the HVB.  If one has a manual / DSG transmission in another car, it's similar to up-shifting to a higher gear to decrease ICE rpm from the lower gear.  This allows ICE to run more efficiently.  The drawback in a conventional car is that there may be very little torque for acceleration (the engine is lugging) in the higher gear  In the hybrid, this lack of ICE torque is made up by almost instantaneously by  MG2 should one want to accelerate quickly. 

Thx for the great explanation.  I love all the tech in this car.   :love_shower: 



#49 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 01:22 PM

I was curious about drafting and read the first couple pages of this thread.

 

FYI - http://www.bobistheo...opics/1152576/2

 

some quotes from the thread

 

"Mythbusters tested this & found that drafting behind a semi DOES save gas, but they also made a point to say that it should never be done because it's 100% unsafe."

 

"the mythbusters had a dodge magnum if i remember right. At 100 feet they had like a 10% increase"

 

"I was in the trucking business for 42 years retired now but I hated it when a car tailgated me.

I found that if I let my trailer drift over onto the shoulder and throw a few stones that got them off of my tail."

 

"Fuel mileage increased by a ton, around 50% or more if I remember correctly, following about 2 feet behind the semi"

The best compromise for me is about 50ft. and the amount of improvement is dependent on the direction of the wind. Probably 2-4mpg improvement. Drafting is beneficial 55mph up, especially 80mph LOL. :) 

 

Paul 



#50 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:11 PM

I think drafting is a great idea, provided the driver doesn't violate the 2 second rule. 

 

At 60 miles/hour, you cover 176 feet in two seconds, so that is the minimum safe distance behind a semi.



#51 OFFLINE   Jus-A-CMax

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:17 PM

Drafting...its inevitable to get those chips on the windscreen, I scored a couple. Also you leave yourself open to :airquote: el-weirdo truckies - one started acting the fool by slowing down to a ridiculous 45 mph on a 70 mph freeway because I was drafting him and I recall I wasn't even as close. Other than that, they are pretty good.

 

Now manual vs eco = Manual would win but you're working hard at it. I've done > 500 miles manual and it was not a HUGE difference at the end - something stupid like 3 MPG difference at end. Thats say 43MPG > 500 miles vs 47MPG. 

 

The smart thing to do is to know when to call which drive mode - eco, manual, and when to BLIP.....you young grasshoppers  :baby:


Edited by Jus-A-CMax, 10 September 2014 - 02:18 PM.

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#52 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 09:40 AM

As you can see from Plus 3 Golfer anything more than 100ft back is useless as far as Drafting is concerned. Have been drafting since 74 (The Great GAS Crisis) with no accidents. Drafting is only for those willing to pay attention 100% of the time what is going on around them and ready to react immediately. IMO :) 

 

Paul



#53 OFFLINE   kaptnk228

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 10:29 AM

Wow!!  I wish I could get above 40 mpg at 65 mph.  We run on cruise control and push the vehicle to use the battery when I see it charged.

 

Here is what I remember about my engineering design vehicle course.

 

There are two different types of loses:  Rolling and aerodynamic.   At around 60 mph and above aero starts to exceed rolling due to the increase according to the square of the velocity.  The cod of drag is built into the vehicle.  The C-Max has a high celing and most likely not the lowest projected frontal area.  I hated the Toyota corolla's small size that I had difficulty (only 6ft tall) getting in and out.  I will take the C-Max any day.

 

So the faster we go, the more fuel we use.  Some suggest increasing the tire pressure which does help but you don't want to exceed the max or even get too close to it IMHO.  The Michelin tires that come with the vehicle are the best out there.  Going to another make might make things worst.  At 70 mph, we get 35-37 mpg.  Again tail winds and head winds do and will effect your numbers along with hills.  Remember to check pressure in the cold weather as it will drop down in winter and increase in summer.

 

Nissan post amazing numbers with their CVT's even with what appears to be an old engine design.  Ford uses a eCVT.

 

At high way speed there are only small gains from the hybrid and mpg largely depends on the ICE.  Therefore the best engine is the Mazda Sky with their 14:1 CR  Efficiency is directly proportional to the Compression Ratio period.  It may be possible to get 50 mpg at 70 mph with this engine.  Tests with this engine in other hybrids showed great or outstanding results.  The Ford approach with a different cycle and a CR of 12.3 falls short here.  Mazda typically sell this engine with a CR of 13:1 but they have run it with 14:1 CR.  A small diesel engine may help also.  Gas seems to cost a lot less these days than diesel fuel.


Edited by kaptnk228, 17 January 2015 - 10:35 AM.


#54 OFFLINE   wb8nbs

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:48 AM

Wow!!  I wish I could get above 40 mpg at 65 mph.  We run on cruise control and push the vehicle to use the battery when I see it charged.

 

Here is what I remember about my engineering design vehicle course.


 

At high way speed there are only small gains from the hybrid and mpg largely depends on the ICE.  Therefore the best engine is the Mazda Sky with their 14:1 CR  Efficiency is directly proportional to the Compression Ratio period.  It may be possible to get 50 mpg at 70 mph with this engine.  Tests with this engine in other hybrids showed great or outstanding results.  The Ford approach with a different cycle and a CR of 12.3 falls short here.  Mazda typically sell this engine with a CR of 13:1 but they have run it with 14:1 CR.  A small diesel engine may help also.  Gas seems to cost a lot less these days than diesel fuel.

 

The Mazda engine is also, like Ford's an Atkinson cycle design which spoils the compression ratio advantage.



#55 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 06:59 PM

Here in Florida I've been consistently getting around 42mpg when going 75+, so it's not all that difficult (although it brings down my total mpg average.  Sigh).



#56 OFFLINE   wb8nbs

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 06:23 PM

Not quite. ICE has already charged up the battery and in HPRifleman's example.ICE is not being used to charge the battery further    

 

What is happening is like I stated in a prior post (Ford quote from manual and the graph).  .  MG1 (the generator) and MG2 (the traction motor) and ICE are physically connected via the planetary gear set.  To maintain this negative spit mode operation in the example, the conditions need to be "right" - generally flat or slight downhill terrain, high HVB SOC (algorithm will  run ICE / MG1 very, very little to charge HVB further) and usually the driver needs to control the throttle (speed / load requirements) to enter this mode,  In this mode, the PCM uses MG1 to slow down ICE rpm by operating as a motor (not a generator) and thus speeds up..  Thus, MG1 effectively "bleeds off" rpm from the gear set so ICE can slow down.   ICE rpm decreases to a more efficient operating point given the load requirements.  MG2 always spins proportionately with the wheels. The PCM then controls MG2 to make up any load requirement differences of ICE supplied power by either generating energy (regeneration) or by using energy (traction motor).  Thus, MG2 not ICE makes up minor difference in load like slight speed increase / decrease, like terrain changes (slight up / down hills) and so forth. 

 

The reason the instantaneous FE goes up is that is ICE is running very efficiently at lower rpm and virtually all the energy from ICE is propelling the car and not charging the HVB.  If one has a manual / DSG transmission in another car, it's similar to up-shifting to a higher gear to decrease ICE rpm from the lower gear.  This allows ICE to run more efficiently.  The drawback in a conventional car is that there may be very little torque for acceleration (the engine is lugging) in the higher gear  In the hybrid, this lack of ICE torque is made up by almost instantaneously by  MG2 should one want to accelerate quickly. 

 

So you're saying never kick in the electrics? You might as well have bought a Focus for $6k less and not have the weight of the batteries. I had an 09 Focus, my personal  best was 46 MPG on a 400 mile trip to northern Wisconsin.



#57 OFFLINE   ScubaDadMiami

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 03:34 AM

So you're saying never kick in the electrics? You might as well have bought a Focus for $6k less and not have the weight of the batteries. I had an 09 Focus, my personal  best was 46 MPG on a 400 mile trip to northern Wisconsin.

If you only drive highway all the time, then there would be choices that are just a good as the C-MAX, some maybe better, if all that you are doing is considering fuel economy and the initial cost of the vehicle. However, there can be other trade-offs that could also factor into the final evaluation, such as space in the vehicle and comfort. There is a vehicle out there for everybody, and, depending on the circumstances, that doesn't always come down to the same factors.

 

I know that I really appreciated having all of that extra space for gear, during my cross country trips in my C-MAX, especially when I was getting great fuel economy for those trips. I also liked riding up higher off of the road than I would in a lot of other cars that also get great fuel economy. I liked the ease of getting into and out of my C-MAX. Things like that are something that I consider just as much as I consider the importance of the fuel economy.

 

It's all a question of the type of driving that you end out doing. I like having a vehicle that gets 50-60+ city and 45-50+ highway while holding a great deal of cargo or five passengers. If that is not your top priority, then you should get what works best for what you do.


Edited by ScubaDadMiami, 02 February 2015 - 03:35 AM.

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#58 OFFLINE   scottwood2

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 06:50 AM

If you only drive highway all the time, then there would be choices that are just a good as the C-MAX, some maybe better, if all that you are doing is considering fuel economy and the initial cost of the vehicle. However, there can be other trade-offs that could also factor into the final evaluation, such as space in the vehicle and comfort. There is a vehicle out there for everybody, and, depending on the circumstances, that doesn't always come down to the same factors.

 

I know that I really appreciated having all of that extra space for gear, during my cross country trips in my C-MAX, especially when I was getting great fuel economy for those trips. I also liked riding up higher off of the road than I would in a lot of other cars that also get great fuel economy. I liked the ease of getting into and out of my C-MAX. Things like that are something that I consider just as much as I consider the importance of the fuel economy.

 

It's all a question of the type of driving that you end out doing. I like having a vehicle that gets 50-60+ city and 45-50+ highway while holding a great deal of cargo or five passengers. If that is not your top priority, then you should get what works best for what you do.

At the auto show I went and looked again at the Honda Fit.  This was on my list of cars.  I like the design of the car.  Great interior use and great FE.  I can also get in and out of this car pretty good.  I really like the car but the feel is very different from the C-Max.  I feel safer and more like I am in a premium vehicle in the C-Max.  


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#59 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 09:41 AM

So you're saying never kick in the electrics? You might as well have bought a Focus for $6k less and not have the weight of the batteries. I had an 09 Focus, my personal  best was 46 MPG on a 400 mile trip to northern Wisconsin.

It depends on conditions.  The electrics can help with FE to an extent on the highway but not like in city / suburban driving .  In general, at highway cruising speeds ICE in hybrids and non-hybrids should be operating at high efficiency.  Thus, FE can be similar in both at high speeds.  In either, one can employ hypermiling techniques and increase FE.  Since the hybrid can store energy, it should have an advantage over a non-hybrid especially in rolling terrain where road load varies which may be offset by the increased weight of the hybrid over the non-hybrid.

 

But, a $6 k price difference is hard to make up in a hybrid even with a $4 gas price.  $6 k buys 1500 gallons of gas.  At 30 mpg in a non-hybrid and 40 mpg in a hybrid, that's a simple payback at 180,000 miles (no time value of money) to break even.  Even if the numbers were 35 mpg vs 50 mpg, the payback is still high at 175,000 miles. But, as others have said there are other reasons to buy the C-Max over a non-hybrid.


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 02 February 2015 - 09:46 AM.

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#60 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 01:58 PM

I hate driving econoboxes. Most hybrids are econoboxes. They have a terrible ride. Very uncomfortable

and the road noise is unbelievable. The overall size is small and makes me feel vulnerable in traffic.

 

All my previous non hybrid cars were domestics and carried a price tag around 25K. They were all loaded

with high trim levels. The average price over the years never changed much. I had 2 Prii and hated them.

(see econobox above) The C-Max came along and changed all that. I only paid 28.5K for my 303A Energi

and it's a pleasure to drive. The FE is just the icing on the cake. It's not always about payback for buying a

hybrid car. Comfort and safety are more important to me.

 

I get paid back when I sign the paperwork and enjoy saving as I drive it. :happy feet:


Edited by drdiesel1, 02 February 2015 - 02:00 PM.

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