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Yellow wrench, See Owner's Manual

check engine light

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21 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   CAcreeks

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 05:11 PM

I am posting this in case it helps somebody else. There are similar problems posted, but not identical to this.

 

A few days ago after power-on, a message appeared saying "See Owner's Manual" and I had to press OK before getting the ready to drive message. Several times before this, during power-on the Sync system said "shutting down to save power" and then "performing routine maintenance" or similar. So it seems there was some kind of battery problem, although the Alerts screen said nothing about it.

 

Anyhow, I kept driving back and forth to work, until my key fob could no longer open the doors. It being Thanksgiving, the Ford dealer was closed, so I disconnected the auxiliary battery. This is the 2nd time I have done that in 24,000 miles.

 

Battery disconnect solved the problem, but the Check Engine light (below) appeared until this morning, when everything went back to normal. I will start carrying a wrench from our old Volvo's repair kit in case this happens again when I'm on the road.

 

Is there a way to get the code for the Check Engine error?

 

Attached Files









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#2 OFFLINE   SPL Tech

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 06:27 PM

Check engine light typically refers to an emissions problem. There is a separate light for low voltage which is red and looks like a battery.

You can get the code with an OBD2 scanner, which is quite cheap and can even be found at some Wal-Marts. The OBD2 port is right next to the driver's left knee.



#3 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 06:44 PM

And most auto store chains will scan the code for you for free as well, like Pep Boys or Auto Zone.



#4 OFFLINE   CAcreeks

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 03:23 PM

Thanks for the help! I will buy an ODB scanner, only $18 on Amazon.

 

Going to Auto Zone or Pep Boys would waste a lot of gasoline, especially since Ford downgraded the EPA mileage estimates on the C-Max. ;)



#5 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 04:29 PM

Thanks for the help! I will buy an ODB scanner, only $18 on Amazon.

 

Going to Auto Zone or Pep Boys would waste a lot of gasoline, especially since Ford downgraded the EPA mileage estimates on the C-Max. ;)

 

Be aware that most generic scanners won't read most proprietary DTC's. Don't be surprised if the 18 dollar

toy comes back with not DTC's stored.  Take it to the dealer and have them record ALL the stored DTC's

and information from all the control modules. Make sure they're aware you want a copy of everything in the systems.

 

This is information you'll need to know if this fault resets after a fix, or if it's a new issue if the light comes back on later.



#6 OFFLINE   SPL Tech

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 06:52 PM

Be aware that most generic scanners won't read most proprietary DTC's. Don't be surprised if the 18 dollar

toy comes back with not DTC's stored.  Take it to the dealer and have them record ALL the stored DTC's

and information from all the control modules. Make sure they're aware you want a copy of everything in the systems.

 

This is information you'll need to know if this fault resets after a fix, or if it's a new issue if the light comes back on later.

I thought OBD was a universal language?



#7 OFFLINE   Bill-N

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 12:02 AM

I thought OBD was a universal language?

 

Yes and no.  Some codes are standardized by EPA; others are manufacturer specific.



#8 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 12:30 AM

I thought OBD was a universal language?

 

Hahahahaha!  The only "universal" info is misfires and emissions system dtc's as far as the DOT regulations.

 Everything else is considered proprietary  information and not required to be available unless you're will to pay for it.

 

Sanp-On, Auto Engenuity and maybe a few other scan tools, might have upwards of 80% to 90% info coverage.

The only one that has 100% is the Ford IDS scan tool. It's the factory tool. Save your 18 dollars for gas or lunch.


Edited by drdiesel1, 01 December 2014 - 12:31 AM.


#9 OFFLINE   SPL Tech

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 04:05 AM

Well it would be nice to find a way to scan codes yourself. It would be really nice if the HUD just told you the code. I doubt it would be hard for them to program that. It's best to avoid the stealership as much as possible. They charge like $150 just to read a code, something that doesent cost them a cent. Dealershits are literately the worst possible place to conduct any form of business.


Edited by SPL Tech, 03 December 2014 - 04:07 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   kostby

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 01:49 PM

Well it would be nice to find a way to scan codes yourself. It would be really nice if the HUD just told you the code. I doubt it would be hard for them to program that. It's best to avoid the stealership as much as possible. They charge like $150 just to read a code, something that doesent cost them a cent. Dealershits are literately the worst possible place to conduct any form of business.

Bitter much?  :)

 

You can display any recorded DTC codes in the left-hand display screen.

Simply hold down the left-hand OK button on the steering wheel when powering the car on, then scroll up or down through the screens to the DTC codes page.

Attached File  IMG_6310DTC.jpg   35.07KB   4 downloads

 


Edited by kostby, 03 December 2014 - 01:56 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 08:51 PM

Well it would be nice to find a way to scan codes yourself. It would be really nice if the HUD just told you the code. I doubt it would be hard for them to program that. It's best to avoid the stealership as much as possible. They charge like $150 just to read a code, something that doesent cost them a cent. Dealershits are literately the worst possible place to conduct any form of business.

 

Sorry, but you are wrong about it not costing them anything. First they pay for the scan tool. About $15K.

They pay for the ability to use the scan tool through Fords website. It's about $800 a year. They pay the tech

that uses the tool and his training also. He takes the time to perform the work and they pay for the power needed

power the  scan tool and the lights need to see what they're doing.

They also pay for the internet access, the property taxes and building your car is now in. Don't forget the service

writer that took your info and made the R.O. on the printer. That way the tech knows what to do.

 

Gotta pay for everything these days. Do you work for FREE ????


Edited by drdiesel1, 03 December 2014 - 08:53 PM.


#12 OFFLINE   SPL Tech

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:42 PM

Sorry, but you are wrong about it not costing them anything. First they pay for the scan tool. About $15K.

They pay for the ability to use the scan tool through Fords website. It's about $800 a year. They pay the tech

that uses the tool and his training also. He takes the time to perform the work and they pay for the power needed

power the  scan tool and the lights need to see what they're doing.

They also pay for the internet access, the property taxes and building your car is now in. Don't forget the service

writer that took your info and made the R.O. on the printer. That way the tech knows what to do.

 

Gotta pay for everything these days. Do you work for FREE ????

Dude, I used to be a mechanic at the dealershit, so I am not just making this up as I go. No one ever paid for my training. I had to get my ASE cert on my own, and most of the training I had to do was on my own. I had to pay for uniforms I never wanted but I had to wear, and I had to provide all my own tools which costed tens of thousands. The dealershit doesent provide jack other than a place to work and vehicles to work on. They charge $100 an hour and paid me $10 an hour. So yea, they are rip offs. Dealershits, car salesmen, bank CEOs, hedge fund managers and politicians all rank in the same top tier of scum garbage. It's been seven years since I worked in the field, but I doubt it has changed much. You get charged $2,000 for something you can do yourself for $200.


Edited by SPL Tech, 23 December 2014 - 07:45 PM.

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#13 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 08:41 PM

Okay but now I'm curious about the info posted here.  Can we or can we not see the code by simply powering the car on and holding down the left-hand OK button on the steering wheel, then scroll up or down through the screens to the DTC codes page?  And, if so, what does the code tell us? 

 

IOW, if the first part of this is true, that we can see the code, does the code itself actually mean anything (to us, of course -- I know it means something to Ford).  If I get a code like 007 is there somewhere I can look it up to see that there is a secret agent hidden in the trunk of my car (oops, excuse me, I don't have a trunk -- perhaps he's handing onto the under carriage)?  Or are we no better off having a code because the numbers won't mean anything to us and we'd have to take it to the dealer anyway?

 

So I guess there are two questions there -- anyone have any answers?



#14 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 07:24 AM

Okay but now I'm curious about the info posted here.  Can we or can we not see the code by simply powering the car on and holding down the left-hand OK button on the steering wheel, then scroll up or down through the screens to the DTC codes page?  And, if so, what does the code tell us? 

 

IOW, if the first part of this is true, that we can see the code, does the code itself actually mean anything (to us, of course -- I know it means something to Ford).  If I get a code like 007 is there somewhere I can look it up to see that there is a secret agent hidden in the trunk of my car (oops, excuse me, I don't have a trunk -- perhaps he's handing onto the under carriage)?  Or are we no better off having a code because the numbers won't mean anything to us and we'd have to take it to the dealer anyway?

 

So I guess there are two questions there -- anyone have any answers?

 

If you purchase a service repair manual (or find something online ??) all the factory DTC's are available. Otherwise,

you'll need the IDS for DTC definitions. Most factory scan tools have become PC based and all the DTC and repair information has moved into the digital information age, but the factory manual still has it. IIRC, Ford still offers a CD based service manual with the electrical info included for about 170 bucks.

 

The car will give you the DTC, but the trick is to find the definitions and know what to do with it and how to diagnose it, properly. The key here is not to guess because you have a DTC.

 

The DTC information only tells you what the PCM/BCM/EBCM, etc. has captured. The DTC isn't going to tell you

how to fix it. Tooling and education is expensive, so if you plan to keep your car and can't DIY, buy the Ford ESP warranty.


Edited by drdiesel1, 24 December 2014 - 07:34 AM.


#15 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 07:32 AM

Dude, I used to be a mechanic at the dealershit, so I am not just making this up as I go. No one ever paid for my training. I had to get my ASE cert on my own, and most of the training I had to do was on my own. I had to pay for uniforms I never wanted but I had to wear, and I had to provide all my own tools which costed tens of thousands. The dealershit doesent provide jack other than a place to work and vehicles to work on. They charge $100 an hour and paid me $10 an hour. So yea, they are rip offs. Dealershits, car salesmen, bank CEOs, hedge fund managers and politicians all rank in the same top tier of scum garbage. It's been seven years since I worked in the field, but I doubt it has changed much. You get charged $2,000 for something you can do yourself for $200.

OMG!   :lol2:


Edited by drdiesel1, 26 December 2014 - 02:47 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:02 AM

. Tooling and education is expensive, so if you plan to keep your car and can't DIY, buy the Ford ESP warranty.

 

Oh, I certainly plan on keeping the car (LOL) but I surely am NOT going to do it myself (heck, I don't even change the oil on our Durango myself anymore, although with the ground clearance it has it was the easiest oil change I ever did.  But now I'm MUCH older and don't mind paying people to do that sort of thing).

 

I guess what I was sort of thinking is that if the warning light (yellow, not red) came on it would be nice to know if it was just an emissions issue (and, sorry, greenie type folks, but that's a "don't worry about it" sort of problem) or something more serious.  But I'll cross that bridge if and when I get to it.



#17 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:10 AM

Okay but now I'm curious about the info posted here.  Can we or can we not see the code by simply powering the car on and holding down the left-hand OK button on the steering wheel, then scroll up or down through the screens to the DTC codes page?  And, if so, what does the code tell us? 

 

IOW, if the first part of this is true, that we can see the code, does the code itself actually mean anything (to us, of course -- I know it means something to Ford).  If I get a code like 007 is there somewhere I can look it up to see that there is a secret agent hidden in the trunk of my car (oops, excuse me, I don't have a trunk -- perhaps he's handing onto the under carriage)?  Or are we no better off having a code because the numbers won't mean anything to us and we'd have to take it to the dealer anyway?

 

So I guess there are two questions there -- anyone have any answers?

Yes, you can see the codes when powering on the car in ETM.  I've been trying to find a list of codes since I learned of ETM displaying DTCs.  I have yet to find a listing of DTCs for Ford's consolidated diagnostic standards.  

 

Here's what I found from Ford.

 

1) Ford consolidated diagnostic standards by: "Adoption of the ISO 14229-1 diagnostic standard for all ECUs on CAN."

 

2) ISO 14229 sends two additional bytes of information with each DTC, a failure type byte and a status byte.

 

3)  All ISO 14229 DTCs are four bytes long instead of three or two bytes long. Additionally, the status byte for ISO 14229 DTCs is defined differently than the status byte for previous applications with three byte DTCs.

 

4) The failure type byte is designed to describe the specific failure associated with the basic DTC. For example, a failure type byte of 1C means circuit voltage out of range, 73 means actuator stuck closed. When combined with a basic component DTC, it allows one basic DTC to describe many types of failures.

 

5) The PCM does not use failure type bytes and always sends a failure type byte of 00 (no sub type information). This is because OBD-II regulations require manufacturers to use two byte DTCs for generic scan tool communications. Additionally, the OBD-II regulations require the two byte DTCs to be very specific, so there is no additional information that the failure type byte could provide.

 

6) The status byte is designed to provide additional information about the DTC, such as when the DTC failed, when the DTC was last evaluated, and if any warning indication has been requested. Each of the eight bits in the status byte has a precise meaning that is defined in ISO 14229. 

 

7) Here's what Ford says about ETM

  • DTC HIST CURR
  • xxxxxx x x
  • xxxxxx x

Displays all of the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) set (history and current Diagnostic Trouble Codes [DTCs]). An X in the HIST or CURR column means the DTC is active. Three Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) display on each screen. If more Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) are present, there will be additional screens listing them. If there are no Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) in history or current, the display will only be the title row. 


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 24 December 2014 - 11:19 AM.

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#18 OFFLINE   SPL Tech

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 11:54 PM

    a


Edited by SPL Tech, 26 December 2014 - 12:16 AM.


#19 OFFLINE   techman05

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 08:11 PM

did you ever find a solution? I was going to mention the service checkup app that at least was on the 2013 model . I now have a 2016 with sync 3.0 and is no longer on the apps area (you need the ford mobile app for the energi now[...They took alot of the fun stuff out or hid it])

have a good new year

#20 OFFLINE   Jibbi

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:44 PM

I am having the exact same issue and would like to know if you found a resolution, CAcreeks. I just purchased my C-Max and am going to be headed back to the dealership as this is within the guarantee, would still like to know if there is a fix.....






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