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lithium ion battery


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8 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   cmaxlen

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 03:49 PM

Is there any maintenance we can do to make this battery last about 200-250000 miles other than going to the dealer. I've taken it to the dealer only for their 100 point check at 10 and 20,000 miles and the battery is one of them but all it says on the list is "CHECKED" sorry, I feel they should've charged it up or something. I've had fords all my life and have traded them in still running good at over 200K with regular maintenance.

 

My girlfriend talked me into getting this vehicle and it is great we are averging a combined 42mpg but, this battery worries me i'm always thinking do I trade it before the warranty is up (8/100,000) because even a used one is expensive.

 

 

This is something I never said to myself before.... thanks for reading my question and please direct me to another post if there is one similar to this 









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#2 OFFLINE   brbevil

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 04:25 PM

I just rode in a Cmax cab on a business trip.  The cabbie had 189k on the car and was averaging around 40 mpg give or take he said.  Car was still rock solid and quiet on the highway.  It was an SE model and all the seats had been recovered in vinyl.  I asked about maintenance and he mentioned just oil changes and blown shock and a bent wheel.  I was impressed.


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#3 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 06:42 PM

Is there any maintenance we can do to make this battery last about 200-250000 miles other than going to the dealer. I've taken it to the dealer only for their 100 point check at 10 and 20,000 miles and the battery is one of them but all it says on the list is "CHECKED" sorry, I feel they should've charged it up or something. I've had fords all my life and have traded them in still running good at over 200K with regular maintenance.

 

My girlfriend talked me into getting this vehicle and it is great we are averging a combined 42mpg but, this battery worries me i'm always thinking do I trade it before the warranty is up (8/100,000) because even a used one is expensive.

 

 

This is something I never said to myself before.... thanks for reading my question and please direct me to another post if there is one similar to this 

Short answer is do nothing and the battery will likely make it past 250 k miles.

 

"Ford's confidence in lithium-ion is based on so-called Key Life Tests. The tests predict that the working capacity (y-axis) of lithium-ion batteries (green line) will be greater over a high-mileage lifetime (x-axis) than that of nickel-metal hydride (yellow line). Past field data for nickel-metal hydride (blue dots) has shown that the testing results are conservative -- that is, batteries generally do better in the field than they do on tests." 
(Source: Ford Motor Co.)

 

gallery_167_32_6383.jpg


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#4 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:40 PM

Yes, do nothing and don't worry.  (Well if you really want to do something, keep it garaged - but that helps the whole car - and, for that matter, any car!)  I certainly don't plan on getting rid of mine because a warranty is running out. It seems an "urban legend" has grown up that says EV and hybrid batteries will go "belly up" at 100,000 miles and the car will be worthless.  Utter nonsense.  Consider:

  1. The above graph shows 80% capacity beyond 250,000 miles.  In a hybrid, I believe that small capacity drop will go unnoticed.  The entire hybrid system is still working just fine.
  2. I can't recall hearing of any HV battery failures in the C-Max.
  3. Tesla now has unlimited mileage warranty over, I think, 8 years.  At the rate we drive that's 250,000+ miles under warranty!  Try and get that warranty on an ICE - even on another "luxury priced" car.  Point is, its essentially the same battery technology as the C-Max.
  4. As time goes by there will (sadly) be spare parts available from wrecked cars.  The HV battery is well protected and should survive most any accident just fine.  At the worst, a new battery from Ford is $3243.17 and there could be a core credit to reduce that.  (The Prius battery is a similar price but gets reduced by over 1/3 with old one "recycled".)
  5. And don't forget about all those "other" cars out there that require 1/3 that price or more about every 100k miles for timing belts and such that aren't needed on the C-Max.  Payments you can't afford to skip.

I really wouldn't worry about it.



#5 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 10:30 PM

Good points.  I'm predicting that in 10 years Lithium Ion batteries will be as cheap as chips.  Even if I have to put a new battery in mine in 2025 I'm ok with that.



#6 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:48 AM

All good points except perhaps Adrian's optimism about batteries (battery technology is the one technology that hasn't gotten appreciably cheaper over the years -- certainly not on the order of computer chips and other such tech).  

 

My own hunch is the Max battery will last as long as anyone wants to keep their car -- but that to replace it will be more or less the same cost as it is now (and that new batteries, at that time, will have improved around 20%.  Which is to say, some, but not a tremendous amount).



#7 OFFLINE   cmaxlen

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:21 AM

Great info everybody. I honestly feel much better now I also hope Adrian_L prediction is right!!

 

thanks



#8 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 02:48 PM

Keep in mind commercial Li-ion batteries were introduced by Sony in 1991.  The problem in recent years is prohibitive cost.  For example, they make much better deep cycle batteries for RVs and golf carts, but most RVers can't afford them and settle with AGM deep cycle or flooded cell.

 

in 2012 the plug-in Prius started using Li-ion batteries.  Ditto the C-max, Nissan Leaf, recent BMW i3 and more-recent Soul EV.  The immediate future looks to be secure for Li-ion chemistry.

 

Navigant Research forecasts that the global market for Li-ion batteries in light duty consumer vehicles will grow from $3.2 billion in 2013 to $24.1 billion in 2023.  

 

In 2009 Li-ion batteries cost about $1200 per kwh.  Today it is about $500-600 per kwh.  And the good people at Mckinsey.com predict it will be about $160 per kwh in 2025. 

 

http://www.mckinsey....y_charges_ahead


Edited by Adrian_L, 19 February 2015 - 03:00 PM.


#9 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 09:22 AM

Yes, do nothing and don't worry.  (Well if you really want to do something, keep it garaged...

Actually, if you want to do something to prolong HV battery life, never let it get hot with a full charge. Overcharging and heat are the enemies of Li-ion technology. It's one reason to use EV+, so the battery gets drained just before you park it.

 

If you read the whole article, you should recognize several of their key points are already built in

- you can't charge it over about 70%

- you can't discharge it more than about 30%

- the battery has active cooling during use

 

But Ford has no control over how you store it. I'm more likely to see -5F than 90F here in Rochester, but that's not the case farther South. A shaded parking space would seem a prudent addition to using EV+ to discharge before storage.

 

HAve fun,

Frank


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