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End Of The ICE-Age

EV ICE Battery Cost

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71 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:17 AM

That seems surprising.  Fueleconomy.gov uses 12 cents per kW-Hr for average electric rate and 0.25 to 0.35 kW-Hr per mile for EV consumption (excepting the Tesla X).  Using 0.30 kW-Hr per mile gives 3.6 cents per mile.  At the 40 mpg EPA C-Max rating, electricity would cost $1.44 which is way below anyones gasoline price per gallon.  Fuel for an average EV costs 54% of a C-Max.  Plus an EV eliminates all the time and cost of ICE maintenance.

Wait a minute, are you telling me that My CMAX getting 60 mpg and 30k miles on oil changes that I'm getting close to EV costs? :)

 

Paul









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#62 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 09:44 PM

Wait a minute, are you telling me that My CMAX getting 60 mpg and 30k miles on oil changes that I'm getting close to EV costs? :)

 

Paul

Not really.  If you drove an EV in the same manner as your C-Max, your EV cost would likely be under 3 cents/mile.  That compares to about 5.8 cents per mile for your C-Max using $3.454 current US average cost of premium fuel and 60 mpg.  Oil doesn't add much per mile (one or two tenths of a cent) but I still find changing it a nuisance.  So, the EV still comes in at about half the cost.



#63 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 08:16 AM

Right; I get 4+mi/kWh in my Energi, my household electricity is about $.12/kWh, so that math certainly works for me.  Even the pricey charger near work charges $.20/kWh, raising it to $.05/mi.  Thankfully, there's a free charger (thanks, National Grid!) only slightly farther away, which drops my cost about in half.



#64 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 10:30 AM

Not really.  If you drove an EV in the same manner as your C-Max, your EV cost would likely be under 3 cents/mile.  That compares to about 5.8 cents per mile for your C-Max using $3.454 current US average cost of premium fuel and 60 mpg.  Oil doesn't add much per mile (one or two tenths of a cent) but I still find changing it a nuisance.  So, the EV still comes in at about half the cost.

I have been averaging $3/gal. for Premium the last 10 fillups and cheaper before that. :) If cost was everything I could use Regular with some loss in MPG's, but should get it down to 4.8 cents/mi. I think. :headscratch:

 

Paul



#65 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:00 PM

OK, I missed this announcement 2 months ago -

 

“In the year 2026 will be the last product start on a combustion engine platform,” Michael Jost told the Handelsblatt automotive summit conference at Volkswagen’s headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany.

 

So, perhaps they build that product for 10 years and ... the ICE Age ends!  Only 17 years away!


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#66 OFFLINE   markd

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:52 AM

Back in 1974 my Dad was working with GE on batteries that could be used on lawn tractors and forklifts. If he was still alive he would marvel at how far technology has come.

#67 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:12 PM

Back in 1974 my Dad was working with GE on batteries that could be used on lawn tractors and forklifts. If he was still alive he would marvel at how far technology has come.

I'm sure he would!  Now just think how far battery technology would be today if it hadn't been nearly frozen for 100 years by the ICE Age!


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#68 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 02:11 PM

Some folks arrive before their time.  This article quotes Henry Ford saying:

 

"I believe that ultimately the electric motor will be universally used for trucking in all large cities, and that the electric automobile will be the family carriage of the future. All trucking must come to electricity. I am convinced that it will not be long before all the trucking in New York City will be electric."   [emphasis added]

 

Funny how it was said by one who, to great extent, helped bring on the ICE age!



#69 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 04:12 PM

Some folks arrive before their time. This article quotes Henry Ford saying:

"I believe that ultimately the electric motor will be universally used for trucking in all large cities, and that the electric automobile will be the family carriage of the future. All trucking must come to electricity. I am convinced that it will not be long before all the trucking in New York City will be electric." [emphasis added]

Funny how it was said by one who, to great extent, helped bring on the ICE age!

and how after over 100 years this statement still points to the fundamental problem of electricity storage - energy density. "The problem so far has been to build a storage battery of light weight which would operate for long distances without recharging." Take a look at the energy density of gasoline vs a lithium ion battery in the attached table.

IMO, how to move from the ICE age to the EV age will be solved by those that "carry a big stick" not a technological kWh storage break through. unless we can "harness" nuclear energy and put a small reactor / battery / generation in each vehicle. Nuclear has been talked about since the 1950s. Ever hear of the Ford Nucleon.

Attached File  Energy Density.JPG   120.83KB   0 downloads

Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 09 March 2019 - 06:38 PM.


#70 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 07:10 PM

The Ford Nucleon - not sure I ever heard of it - I was just a little kid then.  That front overhang might be more of a problem than anything else!

 

Interesting chart:

  • Compared to batteries, heat producing fuels will waste about 75% of the indicated energy but they're still about 25 times better than Li-Ion.
  • Interesting how low gunpowder is compared to fossil fuels - but it carries its own oxidizer.
  • Hey, sugar isn't so bad!  At commodity prices it would cost about 50% more per mile but wouldn't that be "one sweet ride"? :lol:
  • How about ammonia?  A bit heavier but leaves you with "one clean machine"! :)

If you think nuclear is dense, check out antimatter at 90 billion MJ/kg.  Better throw your trash in the trunk when you leave or you might arrive without a car! :lol2:

(Hey, with a bum transmission, SnowStorm is looking for humor - even if he has to create low quality stuff himself!)


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#71 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 09:50 PM

I didn’t remember the Nucleon name or that Ford was the one talking about a nuclear fueled car until I looked it up. My neighbor back in the 70’s was a nuclear engineer and we would BS a lot about nuclear power and it’s potential uses. We were playing cards in the evening of the day TMI had a partial meltdown. He was with Westinghouse nuclear working on a new plant in TX. He saw the hand writing on the wall after TMI and left Westinghouse to work for the owners of the TX plant.

The Nucleon

https://macsmotorcit...Nucleon-360.jpg

#72 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 12:03 PM

The Ford Nucleon - not sure I ever heard of it - I was just a little kid then.  That front overhang might be more of a problem than anything else!

 

Interesting chart:

  • Compared to batteries, heat producing fuels will waste about 75% of the indicated energy but they're still about 25 times better than Li-Ion.
  • Interesting how low gunpowder is compared to fossil fuels - but it carries its own oxidizer.
  • Hey, sugar isn't so bad!  At commodity prices it would cost about 50% more per mile but wouldn't that be "one sweet ride"? :lol:
  • How about ammonia?  A bit heavier but leaves you with "one clean machine"! :)

If you think nuclear is dense, check out antimatter at 90 billion MJ/kg.  Better throw your trash in the trunk when you leave or you might arrive without a car! :lol2:

(Hey, with a bum transmission, SnowStorm is looking for humor - even if he has to create low quality stuff himself!)

I still think it is possible to improve ICE efficiency from 30% to 60% to be used in Hybrids which could double MPG/range.  :)  I also think it would be unwise to go to all EV in the future from a Security stand point. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  One strong solar flare or EMP could put the whole electrical grid out of commission. :headscratch:

 

Paul








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