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Windows rolled themselves today


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58 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   salman

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:30 AM

Update on global open operating by itself:

 

Just had another episode two days ago, and one before that in September

 

since I first posted about this in January 2013 I have had it happen about 6 or 7 more times. I have it to the dealer for service to address this at least twice (need to check records, might have been three times already).

 

First trip to the dealer they found nothing wrong (no error codes, etc) and told me Ford says the feature cannot be disabled even the manual says the dealer can disable it. That was in January 2013.

 

In April or May I brought to a different and better Ford dealer service department after it had happened another couple of times. They found no error codes. On Ford's advice they reprogrammed the key fobs. Also had TSBs performed for 12 volt battery troubles (details on that thread).

 

Since April/May it seemed maybe the window problem had been solved. But then there was one episode over the summer, then one in September, and one just two days ago.

 

Called dealer service and asked them to please check with Ford about disabling the global open feature (though I like opening the windows with the feature on hot days, not worth the rain and security risk of the windows opening at random times). Ford responded that the feature can be disabled but that doing so could and probably would cause other problems. Seems they have had this experience.

 

Bringing the car to service on Monday and will explore theories and options then. My guess is there will be no error codes.

 

Theories: could be another key fob or transmitter on the same frequency issuing the same code, could be a short or similar kind of glitch that self-activates the system, could be (but I doubt it) a bad fob design that increases the odds of accidentally unlocking the doors and pressing the open button for 3 seconds to activate global open.

 

Unfortunately I do not see a practical way to test these theories.

 

Disable the fobs and open & lock the doors manually with the key for a few months and see if the global open feature still activates itself? That would eliminate the fob as the culprit if it happens again. If it does not not happen again over 2 or 3 months it would still be inconclusive, but suggestive. Either way, no good solution is likely to be available. Changing to a new fob?

 

Searching for a glitch or short is very difficult if it is not happening in front of the mechanic and not showing an error code.

 

Identifying a transmitter issuing a similar signal would require a monitoring station at my house (all incidents have been at home so far). Seems improbable.









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#22 OFFLINE   wab

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:06 PM

I had a similar situation my our traded MKX.

 

Wasn't a fob, it was a key with the buttons on it.

First time it happened (figured out after much research) I was lighting the fireplace.

Second getting a (special :worship:  yes dear) pan out of the back bottom of the cabinet.

 

Third and final I was changing the oil on my motorcycle and down the windows went.

 

Forced myself to develop the habit of NOT putting the keys in my pocket when I got home.

Put them in their own little box on the counter.

 

Problem solved.

 

Note: didn't take long to get the habit after having to go BACK in the house to get the keys a :nonono:  FEW :rant:  times.

 


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#23 OFFLINE   salman

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:19 PM

Correction: not a fob, but a key with buttons on it.

 

Update:

 

Brought the car for service on Monday. On Tuesday a Ford Engineer recommended they try unplugging the Body Control Module (BCM). Mechanic did it and car was dead. Reinstalled BCM and car was still dead. Tried jumping the car, no effect. Tested battery, fully charged. Today the Ford Engineer recommended replacing the BCM on the theory it is (and maybe was) defective or fried. Part is to be delivered today, then installed and tested.

 

This is my 5th service attempt to fix the problem of windows opening randomly. I have also had at least 3 service visits for dead 12 volts. I am in Lemon Law Territory and thinking about whether to invoke it and whether I would trade for another C-Max or another Ford model or ask for a cash refund and then go buy something else, possibly a Prius V or a Matrix.

 

I like the C-Max when it works . . .but the service visits take a lot of time, the problems have not yet been definitively identified and fixed, and the two main problems I have experienced are causes for worry. Dead 12 volt can mean being late for work or stranded. Windows rolling down are a security risk and expose the interior to rain, etc, and the problem makes me worry and keep looking outside to see of the windows are closed. Both problems impair the use and value of the car, and also safety - the three California criteria for being a substantial problem.

 

California law calculates a refund by allowing a manufacturer to deduct a fee for miles driven at the time of the first service visit for the problem (not the at the time of the buy back). For me, the first visit was a week after buying the car, with about 80 miles driven by me. So I would get virtually 100% refunded, plus the cost of registration, etc.

 

Probably I will take the car if they seem to have fixed it during this service round, but send Ford a Lemon demand at the next 12 volt or window malfunction. Might still change my mind and do it now. 



#24 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:55 PM

It's easy to test if it's a FOB being activated.  Get out of the car and lock as normal. Take the FOB out of your pocket and hang it up or place it on a tabel and see what happens. It the windows are still opening, then it's the car. If not, it's your FOB being activated in your pocket.

 

I've been leaning over to pick something up and set off my alarm from pressure on the FOB buttons.

 

 

 

Owners are always quick to blame the car. Most of the time, it's them and not the car ;)


Edited by drdiesel1, 30 October 2013 - 12:59 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:58 PM

 


Edited by drdiesel1, 30 October 2013 - 12:58 PM.


#26 OFFLINE   homestead

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:19 PM

It's easy to test if it's a FOB being activated.  Get out of the car and lock as normal. Take the FOB out of your pocket and hang it up or place it on a tabel and see what happens. It the windows are still opening, then it's the car. If not, it's your FOB being activated in your pocket.

 

I've been leaning over to pick something up and set off my alarm from pressure on the FOB buttons.

 

 

 

Owners are always quick to blame the car. Most of the time, it's them and not the car ;)

That is a good test but make sure the FOB is out of range of the car ,  a defective FOB could send out the open windows signal without the button being depressed.


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#27 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:27 PM

That is a good test but make sure the FOB is out of range of the car ,  a defective FOB could send out the open windows signal without the button being depressed.

I doubt it's possible. Never had one capable of that. Most of the time it's activated while in a pocket, purse or by children.

 

Even the dogs and cats get in on the fun. We had a fun one with pennies.  Car would always blow the dome lamp fuse.

We could never find it and the owner was mad. He came in yelling on the last trip. I found a penny in the cigar lighter socket.

It seems his little girl was using it as a bank while she was in the car and would remove them when she got out. I guess she

couldn't get the last one out, this time.  Never heard form this guy again.  He never even said thanks ;)


Edited by drdiesel1, 30 October 2013 - 02:33 PM.


#28 OFFLINE   salman

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:46 PM

It's easy to test if it's a FOB being activated.  Get out of the car and lock as normal. Take the FOB out of your pocket and hang it up or place it on a tabel and see what happens. It the windows are still opening, then it's the car. If not, it's your FOB being activated in your pocket.

 

I've been leaning over to pick something up and set off my alarm from pressure on the FOB buttons.

 

 

 

Owners are always quick to blame the car. Most of the time, it's them and not the car ;)

Dear Dr Diesel

 

In 30 years of car ownership I have never activated an alarm by accidentally pressing the keys in my pocket. Nor have I accidentally started a car with a remote start button. Nor do I think I am accidentally opening the windows on my C-Max.

 

The global open feature requires depressing the open button and holding it in that mode of at least 3 seconds. It also seems to require unlocking the doors first. That is a neat trick to pull off by accident.

 

My very good Ford Service Dept is not suggesting that I am the accidental culprit, nor are the Ford engineers.

 

If you read upthread you will see that early this year when I first reported the problem I researched Ford's record with this feature. On other models they have had problems with the feature for years and ultimately corrected the problem by finding a way to disable the feature. I suspect that is why the C-Max owner's manual says that dealer service can disable the feature upon request . . . except, surprise! Ford did not build the system on the C-Max with a safe way to disable it! Ford engineers say it cannot be done, at least not yet.

 

A few takeaway points:

 

1) The C-Max is not the only Ford to have had this problem.

 

2) The owner's manual promises a feature (disconnection of the global open feature) that does not seem to exist.

 

3) And, for the sake of argument, if it could be shown that the global open feature is being activated accidentally by the jumbling of keys in a pocket (where I keep them) or in a bag or any other typical place that most people keep keys, then the problem would be that the design of the keys is defective.

 

Your proposed test is not as easy nor as likely to be conclusive as you say. It would take months before one could think the test of keeping keys out-of-pocket was showing anything, and even then it would not be 100% conclusive, and even if it were conclusive it would still be a design defect, and a misrepresentation in the manual. 

 

4) Ford is not trying to claim the problem is the way I keep keys in my pocket.



#29 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:56 PM

Dear Dr Diesel

 

In 30 years of car ownership I have never activated an alarm by accidentally pressing the keys in my pocket. Nor have I accidentally started a car with a remote start button. Nor do I think I am accidentally opening the windows on my C-Max.

 

The global open feature requires depressing the open button and holding it in that mode of at least 3 seconds. It also seems to require unlocking the doors first. That is a neat trick to pull off by accident.

 

My very good Ford Service Dept is not suggesting that I am the accidental culprit, nor are the Ford engineers.

 

If you read upthread you will see that early this year when I first reported the problem I researched Ford's record with this feature. On other models they have had problems with the feature for years and ultimately corrected the problem by finding a way to disable the feature. I suspect that is why the C-Max owner's manual says that dealer service can disable the feature upon request . . . except, surprise! Ford did not build the system on the C-Max with a safe way to disable it! Ford engineers say it cannot be done, at least not yet.

 

A few takeaway points:

 

1) The C-Max is not the only Ford to have had this problem.

 

2) The owner's manual promises a feature (disconnection of the global open feature) that does not seem to exist.

 

3) And, for the sake of argument, if it could be shown that the global open feature is being activated accidentally by the jumbling of keys in a pocket (where I keep them) or in a bag or any other typical place that most people keep keys, then the problem would be that the design of the keys is defective.

 

Your proposed test is not as easy nor as likely to be conclusive as you say. It would take months before one could think the test of keeping keys out-of-pocket was showing anything, and even then it would not be 100% conclusive, and even if it were conclusive it would still be a design defect, and a misrepresentation in the manual. 

 

4) Ford is not trying to claim the problem is the way I keep keys in my pocket.

Have you ever heard of the K.I.S.S. method ?  It's a simple test and a validation of what's at fault. Unintended activation or an actual glitch in the electronics.

 

I know owners that have 60 years of ownership and have had this problem.  I'm not blaming you.

It's just a 50/50 chance this could be the problem. You and the dealer could be chasing Ghosts......... :victory:

 

No need to get uptight about it.  It's just common sense and a viable solution to a common issue.... . 

I'm trying to offer an easy solution......... Take it or leave it.... It's not my problem.


Edited by drdiesel1, 31 October 2013 - 04:39 PM.


#30 OFFLINE   C-MaxSea

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:20 PM

I had a similar situation my our traded MKX.

 

Wasn't a fob, it was a key with the buttons on it.

First time it happened (figured out after much research) I was lighting the fireplace.

Second getting a (special :worship:  yes dear) pan out of the back bottom of the cabinet.

 

Third and final I was changing the oil on my motorcycle and down the windows went.

 

Forced myself to develop the habit of NOT putting the keys in my pocket when I got home.

Put them in their own little box on the counter.

 

Problem solved.

 

Note: didn't take long to get the habit after having to go BACK in the house to get the keys a :nonono:  FEW :rant:  times.

 

That's a hoot Wab.  It has happened to me many, many times, both with my VW Eurovan key with buttons, and my garage door opener with a very small inset button.  Gardening with my manager (wife), bend over - zap, there goes the car lock;  turn mowing the lawn, there goes the garage door, playing with the kids  ..................................

Had to develop several hiding spots to leave keys around outside while working or playing.   And I still forget half the time.  :gaah:



#31 OFFLINE   salman

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:06 PM

Picked up my car today. It was ready yesterday after 8 days in the shop.

 

The solution to the window self-opening problem was to disable the feature, which the manual says can be done by dealer service departments. The Ford tech hotline advised my service department to disable the feature, and the service department followed the tech hotline's instructions. Along the way the car was dead for about 6-7 days, as explained above. And when they pulled out the car today I tested the global open feature . . . . and it was still active, not disabled.

 

Given that my buy back case is under review I thought there was no point to giving service the car to work on again. But I did ask them to revise the service receipt to reflect the fact that the global open feature is still active (i.e, the procedure to disable global open did not work). They also needed to revise the service receipt to reflect the car passing through the valley of death during its time in the shop. 

 

When a buy back case is initiated the normal service routine changes a little bit. Issues get booted up to the service manager and Ford starts to consider whether they should cut their losses. To the extent a buy back is likely, then it makes less sense to expend a lot of money on repairs. Of course, if Ford were to try to refuse a buy back, then Ford remains responsible for the warranty (unless and until a buy back is won in arbitration or in court).

 

I still think very highly of the service dept at Airport Marina Ford. They've done all the right things. The problems are in the engineering end of the company.

 

Car ran beautifully on the way home. The CMax is a great idea. When it works it is a great car. But reliability issues and down time in the shop and the failure of engineering to find fixes for their problems  (and projected repair costs post warranty when the shop time would be on my tab! yowzaaa!) are a killer for me.



#32 OFFLINE   mikekoz

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:19 AM

  This happened to our Cmax yesterday. We left in my wife's Escape to go to get a few things, and when we returned, all of the Cmax's windows were open. It was not caused by the key controller hitting something in my pocket as I was nowhere around. The two controllers we have were in the house on top of a dresser and a basket right near the front door. This happened once before. Fortunately, it was not raining on both incidents. I actually had the car at the shop for something else the first time this happened and I told them to please disable that feature, and they could not. I do not keep anything worth stealing in the car when it is at home, but what if we have groceries or other things locked in the car when we are travelling and this happens? And what if it rains after this occurs? Will Ford pay for the internal damage to the car?



#33 OFFLINE   bemyax

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:23 AM

Looked out the window this morning and all the windows were down. If it was a user error, I must have done it last night because there was frost on the interior surfaces. (parked outside :sad face:) For all you old folks in Calfornia, remember when you had the Western White House? Some people could tell you when Air Force One was in town by the freaky garage door activity. Jus sayin'. 


Edited by bemyax, 24 December 2013 - 11:24 AM.


#34 OFFLINE   DaveofDurham

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:04 PM

Went out at 6am today to pick up my just married on Sunday son and daughter-in-law to take them to the airport for the start of their honeymoon.

 

Started to slowly roll the car down the dark driveway and it felt awfully cold because all of the windows were all the way down.  This is at least the 2nd time I have had this happen.  Luckily there was no frost and none of the snow/freezing rain that we are about to get in about an hour.



#35 OFFLINE   BullDurham

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:55 AM

This is a truly stupid feature.  Or, rather, what is stupid is that the owner cannot decide whether he wants to deactivate it or not.  I bought my 2013 C-Max in November, 2012.  My manual says that the dealer can disable the global opening feature.  But the dealer told me he can't do it.  When I contacted Ford they told me the dealer was correct and my manual was incorrect.  I'm stuck with the global opening feature whether I like it or not.  I hate it.

 

It has rained into my car twice and snowed once.  I am now forced to put my car key on my dresser when I'm inside my house for fear that I will accidentally roll down all the windows.  My real fear is that I'll go on a trip, park my car outside a restaurant, and accidentally roll down the windows while I'm eating.  When I come back to the car, my luggage will be gone.  

 

I am waiting for my third battery to be installed (with less than 5800 miles on the car), I have to worry about rain in my car, and the MyFord system is so complicated I can't even change the radio station without getting out the manual.

 

I've never owned an American car before, and I'm beginning to think I made a big mistake in buying this one.  



#36 OFFLINE   DaveofDurham

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 01:12 PM

This is a truly stupid feature.  Or, rather, what is stupid is that the owner cannot decide whether he wants to deactivate it or not.  I bought my 2013 C-Max in November, 2012.  My manual says that the dealer can disable the global opening feature.  But the dealer told me he can't do it.  When I contacted Ford they told me the dealer was correct and my manual was incorrect.  I'm stuck with the global opening feature whether I like it or not.  I hate it.

 

It has rained into my car twice and snowed once.  I am now forced to put my car key on my dresser when I'm inside my house for fear that I will accidentally roll down all the windows.  My real fear is that I'll go on a trip, park my car outside a restaurant, and accidentally roll down the windows while I'm eating.  When I come back to the car, my luggage will be gone.  

 

I am waiting for my third battery to be installed (with less than 5800 miles on the car), I have to worry about rain in my car, and the MyFord system is so complicated I can't even change the radio station without getting out the manual.

 

I've never owned an American car before, and I'm beginning to think I made a big mistake in buying this one.  

 

BullDurham -

 

Welcome to the forum.  Sorry you have been experiencing the windows rolling down and 12v battery problems.

 

We got our C-Max (at University Ford in Durham) about a month after you got yours.  We have had at least 2 windows rolling down episodes, but no problems with the 12v battery.

 

Make a few more posts and I will send you a PM (you need to make 5 or maybe its 6 posts before you can reply to a PM).



#37 OFFLINE   ceemax71

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:22 PM

This is a truly stupid feature.  Or, rather, what is stupid is that the owner cannot decide whether he wants to deactivate it or not.  I bought my 2013 C-Max in November, 2012.  My manual says that the dealer can disable the global opening feature.  But the dealer told me he can't do it.  When I contacted Ford they told me the dealer was correct and my manual was incorrect.  I'm stuck with the global opening feature whether I like it or not.  I hate it.

 

It has rained into my car twice and snowed once.  I am now forced to put my car key on my dresser when I'm inside my house for fear that I will accidentally roll down all the windows.  My real fear is that I'll go on a trip, park my car outside a restaurant, and accidentally roll down the windows while I'm eating.  When I come back to the car, my luggage will be gone.  

 

I am waiting for my third battery to be installed (with less than 5800 miles on the car), I have to worry about rain in my car, and the MyFord system is so complicated I can't even change the radio station without getting out the manual.

 

I've never owned an American car before, and I'm beginning to think I made a big mistake in buying this one.  

 

Have the dealer look up special service message 4488:

 

Jan 08 2014 4488 -2013 CMAX Disable All Windows Open (Global Open)

 

Some customers may not want the Global Open Feature; which enables them to open all the vehicle windows by pressing and holding "unlock" button on the RKE transmitter. Global Open can be disabled using the IDS tool(version 88.01). Using IDS select Tool Box / Module Programming / Programmable Parameters / Car Configuration Parameter(s). Select Vehicle Configuration, Select Retrieve the Vehicle Configuration Data, Select Modify and Reinstate Vehicle Configuration Data, Select Global Open/Close, Select Global Open/Close Disabled. Performing this procedure is not a warrantable condition.



#38 OFFLINE   DaveofDurham

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:59 PM

Have the dealer look up special service message 4488:

 

Jan 08 2014 4488 -2013 CMAX Disable All Windows Open (Global Open)

 

Some customers may not want the Global Open Feature; which enables them to open all the vehicle windows by pressing and holding "unlock" button on the RKE transmitter. Global Open can be disabled using the IDS tool(version 88.01). Using IDS select Tool Box / Module Programming / Programmable Parameters / Car Configuration Parameter(s). Select Vehicle Configuration, Select Retrieve the Vehicle Configuration Data, Select Modify and Reinstate Vehicle Configuration Data, Select Global Open/Close, Select Global Open/Close Disabled. Performing this procedure is not a warrantable condition.

 

Thanks ceemax71.  I had seen your earlier post about this in another window rolling thread, but I forgot about it.

 

Has anyone had this performed on their C-Max?  Does it work?  Any side effects? 

 

What does "Performing this procedure is not a warrantable condition." mean?



#39 OFFLINE   ceemax71

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:13 PM

What does "Performing this procedure is not a warrantable condition." mean?

It means the dealer does not get reimbursed from Ford and the customer will probably have to pay for labor to perform the procedure.

It should only take 10 or 15 minutes for the procedure.

IMO, a good dealer would do it for free as a good will gesture.



#40 OFFLINE   DaveofDurham

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:33 PM

It means the dealer does not get reimbursed from Ford and the customer will probably have to pay for labor to perform the procedure.

It should only take 10 or 15 minutes for the procedure.

IMO, a good dealer would do it for free as a good will gesture.

 

That's ridiculous that owners would get charged for this.  IMO Ford should do this for free as a goodwill gesture.  I also agree with your comment in the "Windows opened by themselves" thread that it would be nice if we could turn this on and off ourselves.








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