Brake light bulb type and LED bulb discussion

[notquitesane]

Oh my. It appears they are CK type.  I thought they were standard as the Philips Xtreme Vision 7443 LEDs I used work.  The bulbs have a + stamped on either side of the bulb base, they light up in park mode and brake mode.  I even tested them like standard base LEDs when I got them.  The Philips must have some sort of circuitry to detect standard and CK types and adjust accordingly.  I appologize.  I feel horrible.

 

If you can straighten the wires and remove the base, you can adjust where the wires go to work with the CK type.

Edited June 11, 2015 by notquitesane

[Madmax98]

No worries, it wasn't just you, I've got another seller saying their Phillips chart saying their 7443 should work too and not labeled as CK.  As long as ebay sellers are kind/trusting enough to refund me, it's just waiting for next order to come, some return shipping costs.   

 

I am surprised that the Phillips work, I wonder if any different from 2013 socket.

 

Got a link for where you sourced your Philips Xtreme Vision?

 

I found one seller with Red version, but I'm still not convinced Red ends up being brighter, even if color 'purer'.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161714122908?item=161714122908&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr

[notquitesane]

On my 2015 for the 7443 brake lamp socket is as you described, two grounds on one of the long sides.

 

This is where I bought the Philips Vision LEDs (thought they were xtreme, but they aren't.  My reverse lights and signal lights are).  I also have the 1157 version for the inner tail lights to match.  The Philips are the same brightness as the stock incandescent bulb using only 8 LEDs and consuming 2W of power.  They just place the light where the incandescent filament would usually go in order to fully utilize the reflector.

http://www.xenondepot.com/7443-LED-Philips-12835B2-Bulb-p/12835b2.htm

It is a Canadian company though.  It seems they charge in US dollars though.  With the 15% discount and $5 shipping, the bulbs come to  $30.49.  I also saw them listed on Amazon.com for around $24.

 

Usually white leds behind a red lense creates a pinkish colour and is usually dimmer than it should be.  The lense filters out all other colours other than red, so you lose most of the light.  With a red LED, most of the light passes through the lense as it is the same colour as the lense.  I've always bought LEDs the same colour as the lense.

 

Edited regarding pricing at Xenon Depot.

Edited June 12, 2015 by notquitesane

[jdbob]

I replaced License Plate Lamp W5W above with a Sylvania 194LED which also shows part numbers 168 and 2825.

 

I just replaced my right-hand license plate bulb with the Sylvania. The left-hand light assembly had previously been replaced with an after-market rear-view camera assembly that included a white LED to replace the functionality of the removed light assembly.

 

I found that one or the other LED would glow dimly even when the lights were supposed to be off. I measured the voltage and it was about 5V in that condition. I assume Ford is running a small current through the circuit and measuring the voltage to make sure both bulbs haven't burned out.

 

The car didn't indicate any problem with the 5V but without knowing what voltage threshold they are using I decided to play it safe. I put a 2K ohm 1/4 Watt resistor across the bulb wires and that dropped the voltage to 2V and extinguished the LED. 

[jdbob]

Without the resistor the car did think the bulbs were burned out.

 

[notquitesane]

So I guess that means it would be a good idea to buy those canbus compatible bulbs for our cars then.  I didn't know our cars would throw a code for lights like that.

[jdbob]

The canbus compatible bulbs just have a resistor in parallel to (hopefully) make the computer think there is a good bulb there. Unfortunately there isn't some international standard regarding how low the resistance needs to be. In the case of the license plate bulb on the C-Max I was reading 2V across the 2000 ohm resistor, so 2.0 / 2000 = 0.001 Amp (1ma). Some other car might run ten times that much current. Another variable is how the computer determines whether there is a good bulb or not, they could measure the voltage, but they could set the good/bad voltage threshold anywhere they wanted to.

 

Without any standards no one can guarantee if it will work or not. I cleared the DTC that was there and I'll check again after another car on/off cycle to see if it comes back. If so, I change to a 1000 ohm resistor. Of course, the lower the resistance, the more heat it's going to give off, and I'll have to use a higher wattage to make sure it doesn't burn out.

[notquitesane]

I've pretty much replaced all the lights on the outside with LEDs, with the exception of the headlight and foglights.  The only bulbs I placed a resistor across was the center brake light.  After I put LEDs in there and they were ghosting.  I know my license plate lights do it as well but haven't tried to fix it.  No DTCs for me yet.  I am guessing the flickering was enough of a draw to fool the car into thinking a bulb is there in my case.

 

I hooked up a 1000 ohm resistor to 14.5V at work for an hour.  It was cool to the touch since it is low current running through it.  I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to melt anything.  I used a 1000 ohm resistor for my center brake lights to prevent the flickering.

[Madmax98]

The xenondepot option  shows a CANBUS option for an additional $17. I certainly hope not to need resistors or canbus for use between park/brake light and based on your pricing mentioned @notquitesane, it looks like you didn't get canbus option.

 

http://www.xenondepot.com/7443-LED-Philips-12835B2-Bulb-p/12835b2.htm

 

 

Here's another Phillips 7443 option on ebay.

Vendor says the Phillips red are only 50 lumens (which is subjective according to some - so I assume vendor means that this is Lumen rating PER led, so this should be 8x50=400).

 

I'm considering purchasing to compare with white CK led option I am waiting on which another vendor claims to be 1400 lumen as brake, and about 700 as tail.  I have to think that 3x in white will still be brighter, even if a little pinker, I'd rather go for BRIGHTer, otherwise not much point just for speed and load....

 

 

a white ck 7443 option (still waiting to receive)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331236855437?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

here is another Phillips 7443 red led option

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161714122908?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[notquitesane]

I did not select the canbus option and I have no issues with the brake lights. 

 

The white LED you orders uses 2538 led chips, so it should be bright.  I hope the white will look ok behind the red lens.

 

For the Philips, 50 lumen per LED makes sense, as you mentioned.  A regular incandescent 7443 bulb is rated at 440 lumens.  I can say that the Philips compared to the stock bulb, look the same.  My primary goal was having the instant on/off of an LED.  However, I have pre-ordered new LEDs for the front turn signals and rear brakes.  They won't arrive stateside till end of June, then I have to wait for insane amounts of time for the postal system to send it to Canada.

 

I recently ordered reverse lights. They originated from Seattle, WA.  I am in Edmonton, AB.  One would think it would head to Vancouver, BC, then onto Edmonton.  So far, my LEDs have gone from Seattle to Los Angeles.  Eventually they'll start heading North!!!

[notquitesane]

Well I finally got my new reverse lights.  The LED chips on them are 2835 (really bright) and there are 15 of them.  It's eBay, so they overstate the specs.  It claims 15 1W led chips and 800 lumens (which I doubt).  At 14.5V, they consume 200mA.  That works out to about 3W of total power, so I doubt they are running them full power, or they are the less powerful versions of the 2835 led chips.  They fill the entire reverse reflector and you can see them from the side of the car.  The old Philips X-treme Vision ones I had before only illuminate the center of the reflector and you cannot see any light when you are at the side of the car.  I got the new ones from a seller on eBay located in the states.  Cost about $20 for 4 of them. 

 

Edit: I checked the Philips X-treme Vision bulbs.  They draw 200-225mA at 14.5V.

 

Here is what the LEDs look like.

 

Here is what the old X-treme Vision 921 look like in the reverse light housing.

 

Here is what the new LEDs look like in the reverse light housing.

 

I haven't used them at night yet, so I don't know if they put more light on the ground.  But at least they are visually brighter.

Edited June 23, 2015 by notquitesane

[notquitesane]

I just received my new brake lights.  I got a pair of AF Spec 30W Projector/Reflector hybrid 7443CK bulbs in red.  They are brighter than the Philips Vision LEDs, fill the housing more evenly and are a deeper red colour.  The Philips have a tinge of orange to it when you compare side by side.  I don't have output shots yet, just a picture of what the bulbs look like.  They are really bright.

 

I got them at AF Lighting http://af-lighting.net and used a discount code of IL4SFTW that will get you 40% off the 30W bulbs until August.  With the discount code, they are close in price to the Philips LEDs.  Time will tell if they will last, but at least they look fantastic.

 

Here's what they look like.

 

I also have a set of their 30W 3157 Amber bulbs out front.  I am going to play around with them, might try to order different 3157 sockets to see if I can move them out a bit more in the housing.  They are brighter than what I had before, because of the back firing LEDs.  I just don't think they are in the right spot to fill the housing.  If they were just a LITTLE bit longer, it would be perfect.

 

Here's a youtube video of the ambers in action.  They aren't as bright during the day in direct sunlight but I am happy with their performance.

 

https://youtu.be/uBFU-QhF-8M

[Madmax98]

Well I finally got my new reverse lights.  The LED chips on them are 2835 (really bright) and there are 15 of them.  It's eBay, so they overstate the specs.  It claims 15 1W led chips and 800 lumens (which I doubt).  At 14.5V, they consume 200mA.  That works out to about 3W of total power, so I doubt they are running them full power, or they are the less powerful versions of the 2835 led chips.  They fill the entire reverse reflector and you can see them from the side of the car.  The old Philips X-treme Vision ones I had before only illuminate the center of the reflector and you cannot see any light when you are at the side of the car.  I got the new ones from a seller on eBay located in the states.  Cost about $20 for 4 of them. 

 

Edit: I checked the Philips X-treme Vision bulbs.  They draw 200-225mA at 14.5V.

 

Here is what the LEDs look like.

 

Here is what the old X-treme Vision 921 look like in the reverse light housing.

 

Here is what the new LEDs look like in the reverse light housing.

 

I haven't used them at night yet, so I don't know if they put more light on the ground.  But at least they are visually brighter.

Those 2835 Reverse LED's do look like they fill out the housing better, curious if throw they light up more of the ground with the sideways orientation.

 

Got any pix of the new red brake/tail lights?

[notquitesane]

Those 2835 Reverse LED's do look like they fill out the housing better, curious if throw they light up more of the ground with the sideways orientation.

 

Got any pix of the new red brake/tail lights?

 

I just took a picture of the brake lights, comparing to incandescent.  It seems the AFspec 30W LEDs are dimmer than the incandescent, just like the Philips Vision LEDs.  They fill the housing a lot better than the Philips, which had a dark line running down the center of the reflector.  It looks like it is a deeper red compared to the Philips I am happy with them.  Now... if I can just convince some co-workers to buy my spare LEDs!

 

And yes... I spelled Incandescent wrong! lol

[notquitesane]

Bulb update.  So I changed a few bulbs in my car.  I haven't had time to take pics of everything, but I will when the home reno's are closer to complete.  2 rooms have been painted, laminate laid down and baseboards attached all during weekends until 4pm due to condo board rules for construction noise bylaws.  2 rooms left for paint.  

 

Those AFSpec brake lights are deceiving in pictures.  The red is a deep intense red, so it seems they are brighter than incandescent.  When I am in reverse, the backup cam just shows 2 blobs of red in the middle of the screen.  The camera doesn't have a chance of picking up much else because the red is so bright.  Might be too bright.  I pulled them out because the dim mode was too bright.  Not enough difference in brightness when I hit the brakes.  So to replace them, I ordered Philips X-treme Ultinon red LEDs.   Thery were even more expensive than the amber turn signals as they don't sell them here and I had to get them from Japan.  They are very similar to my rear turn signals.  

 

 

The red brake light is on the left, the amber signal light is on the right.  The bulbs use 2 Rebel LEDs and the red bulbs are only rated at 75 lumen, but I can say that they are brighter than the Philips Vision LEDs.  The Philips Vision LEDs have a dark vertical strip down the center of the lens, the Philips X-treme Ultinon bulbs do not.  They fill the lens quite nicely.  When my home reno's are closer to complete, i'll grab some comparison pics.

 

I've searched for better front signal lights as all the previous sets were never brighter than stock.  I had 5 year old ebay bulbs, Diode Dynamic XP80 bulbs, AF Lighting AFSpec 30W P/R hybrid bulbs.  The AFSpec bulbs showed so much promise, but they were very dim as the colour is a very deep amber colour.  I couldn't see any light reflecting on signs in front of me at night while the turn signal was on.

 

So I bought these.

 

 

I know they are cheap ebay bulbs, but so far they are brighter than anything I've had before.  I can see light reflecting off of signs in front of me when I  signal.  My car wants to randomly hyperflash so I may have to install load resistors eventually.

 

 

For comparison, here are what the AFSpec 30W P/R hybrid bulbs look like

 

Not as much lens fill and dimmer overall.

So I hope the new ebay bulbs hold  up.  And I hope I don't have to order any new bulbs.. my other half is going crazy with all these sets of LED bulbs lying around... lol 

[okashira]

LInk to those ebay bulbs? I have some ebay & china bulbs coming and ill share results.

 

And are you rewiring them for the CK socket?

Edited August 25, 2015 by okashira

[notquitesane]

Here is where I bought those front turn signal bulbs.

 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2X-3157-High-Power-Projector-2538-Chip-LED-Amber-Yellow-Turn-Signal-Light-Bulbs-/231610309701?hash=item35ed0cdc45

 

Only the rear brake lights are CK.  The front turn signals are standard wiring.

[okashira]

Here is where I bought those front turn signal bulbs.

 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2X-3157-High-Power-Projector-2538-Chip-LED-Amber-Yellow-Turn-Signal-Light-Bulbs-/231610309701?hash=item35ed0cdc45

 

Only the rear brake lights are CK.  The front turn signals are standard wiring.

Thanks .. how about the outer tails, the red 3157's ?

 

here's what I got:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391087341116?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=660457110108&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

less then half of what you paid..

Ill post a pic to compare with stock

 

So the 7443's need to be CK

How about the 3157 

 

 

Also got these I will install soon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111352932312?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

And a bunch of http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-x-T10-LED-194-168-W5W-Car-Side-Wedge-Tail-white-blue-red-green-yellow/2014591124.html

(i like cheap. :D)

Edited August 25, 2015 by okashira

[notquitesane]

The outer tails are 7443 ck.

The inner tails are 1157.

The front turn signal is 3157.

 

If you like cheap, you probably don't want to know much much I paid for all my bulbs. lol  The cheapest ones I have are the reverse lights in the pictures above.  The brake lights and rear turn signals are from Japan as they don't sell them here. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by notquitesane

[okashira]

Nah I don't want to know what you paid. haha. 1157???? Here is my list:

 

 

Outer brake/Tail  - 7443 CK Red        - 2

Brake             - 1157 Red     - 2

Low Beam          - H11 or H9 MOD   - 2

Front Turn Signal - 3457/3157 Amber - 2

Mirror            - 194 Amber       - 2

Side Marker       - 194 Amber       - 2

Mirror Puddle     - 194 White       - 2

Rear Turn Signal     - 7440 Amber      - 2

Rear Center Brake - 194 Red         - 2

License Plate    - 194 White       - 2

Reverse Light    - 921 White      -2

 

 

 

confirm the two mistakes I had?

Edited August 26, 2015 by okashira

[notquitesane]

My manual was incorrect when it listed the bulbs.  I purchased 3157 for the tail lights before I took delivery of the car.  I didn't know they were the incorrect type.

 

Click here for a list of automotive bulbs.

 

The outer brake / tail is attached to the rear fender of the car.  The housing has the brake light in the bottom and the turn signal on top.  The bulb is a 7443 CK.  It's similar to a 3157, and a 3157 should fit into the socket, but it won't snap into place and might fall out.  Look for W21/5W on the list of automotive bulbs to see what a 7443 looks like.

For a difference beteween standard and CK wiring, see this. 

 

The rear turn signal is a 7440, as it only has 1 filament.  Looks the same as above but with 2 contacts on the bulb instead of 4.

 

The inner tail light is attached to the tailgate of the car.  The tail light is in the bottom and the reverse light is on top.  The bulb is a BAY15d (or P21/5W or 1157). Look on that list of automotive bulbs for P21/5W or BAY15d on the list.

 

The reverse light is a 921.  You can see what that looks like on the list of automotive bulbs by looking for W16W.

 

The front turn signal is a 3157.  See P27/7W on the list of automotive bulbs for what it looks like.

 

The rest of the bulbs look correct.

 

 

 

[okashira]

Updated Master list below. Should be all correct now. Thanks.

Just orders some 1157 Red for the brakes.

 

Outer brake/Tail  - 7443 CK Red        - 2

Brake             - 1157 Red     - 2

Low Beam          - H11 or H9 MOD   - 2

Front Turn Signal - 3457/3157 Amber - 2

Mirror            - 194 Amber       - 2

Side Marker       - 194 Amber       - 2

Mirror Puddle     - 194 White       - 2

Rear Turn Signal     - 7440 Amber      - 2

Rear Center Brake - 194 Red         - 2

License Plate    - 194 White       - 2

Reverse Light    - 921 White      -2

 

 

Got these coming:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191604813306?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Ill take the risk on the $10 pair. With 12 5630 LED they might be bright enough.

Should also add to list what lights require / might need / and what type of resistor mod is needed.

 

Soon I will work on the headlights. Had some issues, I have a 25W rheostat coming to help with testing, otherwise I will wire in a separate 12v ignition switched source because I don't want to use giant 25W load resistors.

 

I have EVERYTHING ready to go except F/R turn signals. It's good news you got some to work without load resistors.

Might as well do those too. cheap enough.

Edited August 26, 2015 by okashira

[okashira]

Ok, ok, you got me, I will go all LED except high beam and fogs. Ordered these:

[notquitesane]

Looks good.  Make sure you order 5 194 red bulbs for the center brake light.  Also the cargo lights on the inside of the hatch are 194's as well, 2 of those.

 

I needed a 6 ohm 50W resistor per turn signal bulb that you switch to LED.  I've had some hyperflashing since I installed the ebay bulbs up front so I'll have to install a 2nd set of resistors.  I'm going to install both in the back where it is easy to attach to metal and stay away from the elements.

 

I had to go shorter with the reverse lights and rear turn signals because there was a plastic piece limiting how long of a bulb I could use.  The amber bulbs in the mirrors also only have enough room a slightly longer bulb.

 

I also had bulbs flicker when the car was on.  This was because of the canbus bulb detection stuff the car uses.  A low voltage is applied when you turn the car on to detect if a bulb is out or not, and that is enough to cause some bulbs to faintly glow and flicker.  You can order canbus ready bulbs or put a 1K ohm 1/2 W resistor in parallel. 

[okashira]

Looks good.  Make sure you order 5 194 red bulbs for the center brake light.  Also the cargo lights on the inside of the hatch are 194's as well, 2 of those.

 

I needed a 6 ohm 50W resistor per turn signal bulb that you switch to LED.  I've had some hyperflashing since I installed the ebay bulbs up front so I'll have to install a 2nd set of resistors.  I'm going to install both in the back where it is easy to attach to metal and stay away from the elements.

 

I had to go shorter with the reverse lights and rear turn signals because there was a plastic piece limiting how long of a bulb I could use.  The amber bulbs in the mirrors also only have enough room a slightly longer bulb.

 

I also had bulbs flicker when the car was on.  This was because of the canbus bulb detection stuff the car uses.  A low voltage is applied when you turn the car on to detect if a bulb is out or not, and that is enough to cause some bulbs to faintly glow and flicker.  You can order canbus ready bulbs or put a 1K ohm 1/2 W resistor in parallel. 

 

 

That's 6 ohm in parallel, right? Crazy. Hopefully something more reasonable like 20 ohm will work. I'll try the Rheostat I have coming

At least the turn signals are not on much.

 

For the headlights, If I need anything lower then ~30 ohm, I will just hook up a separate 12v source.