Is Ford phasing out the C-Max Hybrid?

[ChrisMax]

In all the mail I'm receiving from Ford advertising new cars the C-max is missing!  Today another card arrived listing Focus, Escape etc but no C-Max.  This is leading me to believe Ford may be phasing out the C-Max!  We own a 2013 C-Max SE and are totally sold on the car, not one spot of trouble with over 50000 miles on the odometer.  In another 2 years or 100,000 miles we would buy another but will the car be available?  What do others think about this?  

[stevedebi]

In all the mail I'm receiving from Ford advertising new cars the C-max is missing!  Today another card arrived listing Focus, Escape etc but no C-Max.  This is leading me to believe Ford may be phasing out the C-Max!  We own a 2013 C-Max SE and are totally sold on the car, not one spot of trouble with over 50000 miles on the odometer.  In another 2 years or 100,000 miles we would buy another but will the car be available?  What do others think about this?  

Well, in some ways they would be just as well off with only the Fusion. I've been thinking the same as you since last year.  But I think as long as they are producing the vehicle in Europe, we may be OK.

 

But really, a Focus hatchback would be lighter and fill similar role. Not nearly as nice as the C-Max in my opinion, but lighter and more fuel efficient.

[ptjones]

Well, in some ways they would be just as well off with only the Fusion. I've been thinking the same as you since last year.  But I think as long as they are producing the vehicle in Europe, we may be OK.

 

But really, a Focus hatchback would be lighter and fill similar role. Not nearly as nice as the C-Max in my opinion, but lighter and more fuel efficient.

IMO CMAX has quite a bit with more room for people and trunk space than a Focus Hatchback and I can get 47mpgHWY/53mpgCITY regularly.  Focus doesn't come close to that. My Fuelly average  is 46.2mpg being 83% HWY miles. :)

 

Paul

[Kelleytoons]

Yeah, I would be sad if we lost our C-Max but it's one of those times you shouldn't worry about what you can't control.  Just enjoy your ride and if it's a dying breed think how very special you then are to have had one.

[markd]

I don't see that happening, IMHO these vehicles are serving a purpose. By 2020 I expect the light trucks and Transit's to be using the hibryd technology that we're currently testing.

[stevedebi]

IMO CMAX has quite a bit with more room for people and trunk space than a Focus Hatchback and I can get 47mpgHWY/53mpgCITY regularly.  Focus doesn't come close to that. My Fuelly average  is 46.2mpg being 83% HWY miles. :)

 

Paul

I meant a Focus hybrid, which would get even better mileage.

[stevedebi]

I don't see that happening, IMHO these vehicles are serving a purpose. By 2020 I expect the light trucks and Transit's to be using the hibryd technology that we're currently testing.

Serving a purpose, yes. Selling, no. And auto manufacturers are driven by sales.

[markd]

I see the C-Max joining the Transit line by 2018, they are so very similar, with the hibryd being offered in the C-Max and both the small work van and the passenger van.

Edited May 28, 2015 by markd

[stevedebi]

I see the C-Max joining the Transit line by 2018, they are so very similar, with the hibryd being offered in the C-Max and both the small work van and the passenger van.

So you think the C-Max will go away in favor of a Transit? Interesting. I don't see them making an Energi, or probably even a hybrid, out of the Transit Connect (work van). That would reduce the effective weight it could carry.

[raadsel]

I wouldn't worry about it, yet. The new Focus was recently introduced, so it is getting a lot of the attention in Ford's advertising. Additionally, SUVs (with the low gas prices) are what are selling. Ford also got a black eye from the C-Max, when they had to lower the fuel economy numbers twice. The Fusion gets attention because of its gas powered models -- I'm seeing little on the Fusion hybrid and I doubt that is going anywhere. Additionally, the C-Max is in the "middle" of its model year so doesn't merit much attention for being "new".

 

Ford is smart enough to know that gas prices will, at some point, go back up and people will again want fuel efficient cars. The C-Max is also due to have the model refreshed, with the C-Max in Europe just having its new design announced a few months ago. I doubt Ford gets rid of the C-Max, one of its biggest purposes is helping Ford meet the CAFE standards for its car lineup; for that reason alone, I don't think Ford will kill the C-Max in the US. I suspect (or at least hope) that Ford is doing some major work on the C-Max, to use the model refresh to reintroduce the C-Max in the US. I'm sure one of the plans is to make it a tougher competitor for the Prius. I suspect the plan for Ford is to "ignore" the C-Max until the new model is introduced, they "hope" fuel prices are more normal, and that a media blitz at that point will drive sales. 

 

I can't see Ford adding the C-Max into the Transit line up. First, trucks CAFE standards are different than those of cars and the C-Max helps Ford meet CAFE standards, both now and hopefully in the future. Next, as was pointed out, hybrids have relatively poor cargo (weight) carrying capacity -- at least in part due to the batteries. Diesels make far more sense for helping truck meet CAFE standards, as they provide the improved fuel economy while also providing good weight carrying capability.

Edited May 29, 2015 by raadsel

[ptjones]

So you think the C-Max will go away in favor of a Transit? Interesting. I don't see them making an Energi, or probably even a hybrid, out of the Transit Connect (work van). That would reduce the effective weight it could carry.

They already make a Transit Direct Electric, I don't know If anyone has seen one. :)

 

Paul

[Bugblndr]

In all the mail I'm receiving from Ford advertising new cars the C-max is missing!  Today another card arrived listing Focus, Escape etc but no C-Max.  This is leading me to believe Ford may be phasing out the C-Max!  We own a 2013 C-Max SE and are totally sold on the car, not one spot of trouble with over 50000 miles on the odometer.  In another 2 years or 100,000 miles we would buy another but will the car be available?  What do others think about this?  

 

I don't recall seeing any advertising for the C-Max in Canada for the past 2 years.  Not one Ford Dealer in my area ever shows it in their newspaper advertising, never on television, not on Ford Canada's national advertising, nowhere.

 

I believe they promoted it a bit when it first came out in 2012 but haven't seen one ad since MPG-gate.  It wouldn't surprise me if they discontinued it, but I really don't care, I got mine!

Edited May 29, 2015 by Bugblndr

[stevedebi]

I wouldn't worry about it, yet. The new Focus was recently introduced, so it is getting a lot of the attention in Ford's advertising. Additionally, SUVs (with the low gas prices) are what are selling. Ford also got a black eye from the C-Max, when they had to lower the fuel economy numbers twice. The Fusion gets attention because of its gas powered models -- I'm seeing little on the Fusion hybrid and I doubt that is going anywhere. Additionally, the C-Max is in the "middle" of its model year so doesn't merit much attention for being "new".

 

Ford is smart enough to know that gas prices will, at some point, go back up and people will again want fuel efficient cars. The C-Max is also due to have the model refreshed, with the C-Max in Europe just having its new design announced a few months ago. I doubt Ford gets rid of the C-Max, one of its biggest purposes is helping Ford meet the CAFE standards for its car lineup; for that reason alone, I don't think Ford will kill the C-Max in the US. I suspect (or at least hope) that Ford is doing some major work on the C-Max, to use the model refresh to reintroduce the C-Max in the US. I'm sure one of the plans is to make it a tougher competitor for the Prius. I suspect the plan for Ford is to "ignore" the C-Max until the new model is introduced, they "hope" fuel prices are more normal, and that a media blitz at that point will drive sales. 

 

I can't see Ford adding the C-Max into the Transit line up. First, trucks CAFE standards are different than those of cars and the C-Max helps Ford meet CAFE standards, both now and hopefully in the future. Next, as was pointed out, hybrids have relatively poor cargo (weight) carrying capacity -- at least in part due to the batteries. Diesels make far more sense for helping truck meet CAFE standards, as they provide the improved fuel economy while also providing good weight carrying capability.

They can do event better on CAFE by having only the Fusion Hybrid and Energi. They have better numbers than the C-Max. It is all a matter of economics. If Ford can sell enough of them to make it worthwile to continue the plant operation in the US, then they will do it. They won't go to the expense of retooling for a new model if they don't think sales will support it. If there aren't sufficient sales to support it, from their perspective it would be better to convert the plant to build FFH or FFE.

 

Ford was intent on challenging the Prius with the C-Max - a single purpose hybrid only model. I don't think they are posting a serious challenge to Toyota with the C-Max, as much as I love the vehicle.

 

The last wildcard is union contracts, I don't know what the status is on that one. The C-Max is built in Michigan. But that wouldn't matter if they convert the plant to something else.

Edited May 29, 2015 by stevedebi

[raadsel]

They can do event better on CAFE by having only the Fusion Hybrid and Energi. They have better numbers than the C-Max. It is all a matter of economics. If Ford can sell enough of them to make it worthwile to continue the plant operation in the US, then they will do it. They won't go to the expense of retooling for a new model if they don't think sales will support it. If there aren't sufficient sales to support it, from their perspective it would be better to convert the plant to build FFH or FFE.

 

Ford was intent on challenging the Prius with the C-Max - a single purpose hybrid only model. I don't think they are posting a serious challenge to Toyota with the C-Max, as much as I love the vehicle.

 

The last wildcard is union contracts, I don't know what the status is on that one. The C-Max is built in Michigan. But that wouldn't matter if they convert the plant to something else.

 

Except CAFE is a fleet "average". While the Fusion Hybrid helps more, the C-Max still raises Fords overall number. Additionally, the Fusion Hybrid largely compensates for the other Fusion powertrains, which I believe are all in the mid 20s for combined fuel economy. The C-Max, to that end, still helps bring the overall average up, along with the Focus Electric. 

 

I also understand about the Prius but, again, even Prius sales are down because of both gas prices and increased competition. The C-Max does compete well against the Prius in a head to head battle -- I seem to recall seeing a couple of those recently, despite the C-Max's fuel economy issues. Additionally, Ford has to know that current C-Max owners love their cars.

 

I would hope, and I think Ford has enough vision to do this, that the C-Max is improved using the new European C-Max design. I'm sure Ford has made some improvements in their hybrid powertrain over the last 3 years, since they finalized the powertrain for the Fusion and C-Max Hybrids. You introduce it as gas prices go back up (insuring fuel economy claims are accurate, this time), and push the benefits we all know the C-Max has over the Prius. Hopefully the C-Max will get similar fuel economy to a Prius V -- and if they lengthened the C-Max by a few inches the C-Max could compete closer in cargo capacity with the Prius V -- and they can advertise getting Prius-like fuel economy in a better driving car.

 

We'll see what happens, just it is my guess that Ford is smart enough to know they shouldn't drop a fuel efficient car from their line up while gas prices are low. And, if I'm right, this is also why we don't see the C-Max advertised much; while there is a small market for the C-Max still, there won't be much more of a market until gas prices increase.

Edited May 29, 2015 by raadsel

[zalusky]

Ford is supposedly working on a "from the ground up"  hybrid for 2018.  I would expect the CMAX to go away when that model comes out.  The crossover segment is big these with many different sizes.  The C-MAX may go away but no way will Ford not make a hybrid solution for that size.

[ptjones]

I thought we heard the Hybrid Escape was coming back. ;)  BTW FORD could fine tune the CMAX like I have done and add another 4-5mpg  without adding hardly any cost to the CMAX at all. :)

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

Except CAFE is a fleet "average". While the Fusion Hybrid helps more, the C-Max still raises Fords overall number. Additionally, the Fusion Hybrid largely compensates for the other Fusion powertrains, which I believe are all in the mid 20s for combined fuel economy. The C-Max, to that end, still helps bring the overall average up, along with the Focus Electric. 

 

I also understand about the Prius but, again, even Prius sales are down because of both gas prices and increased competition. The C-Max does compete well against the Prius in a head to head battle -- I seem to recall seeing a couple of those recently, despite the C-Max's fuel economy issues. Additionally, Ford has to know that current C-Max owners love their cars.

 

I would hope, and I think Ford has enough vision to do this, that the C-Max is improved using the new European C-Max design. I'm sure Ford has made some improvements in their hybrid powertrain over the last 3 years, since they finalized the powertrain for the Fusion and C-Max Hybrids. You introduce it as gas prices go back up (insuring fuel economy claims are accurate, this time), and push the benefits we all know the C-Max has over the Prius. Hopefully the C-Max will get similar fuel economy to a Prius V -- and if they lengthened the C-Max by a few inches the C-Max could compete closer in cargo capacity with the Prius V -- and they can advertise getting Prius-like fuel economy in a better driving car.

 

We'll see what happens, just it is my guess that Ford is smart enough to know they shouldn't drop a fuel efficient car from their line up while gas prices are low. And, if I'm right, this is also why we don't see the C-Max advertised much; while there is a small market for the C-Max still, there won't be much more of a market until gas prices increase.

Sorry, I'm not following most of that. Whatever benefit Ford gets from the C-Max hybrid, having only the Fusion Hybrid would give even more benefit. Unless there is market for this form factor in a vehicle, it will be dropped.

 

This car reminds me of my Freestyle. A great car, but it only lasted one generation, and Ford never advertised it. One could postulate that the Flex is the follow on, I suppose - it is very similar inside.

[stevedebi]

I thought we heard the Hybrid Escape was coming back. ;)  BTW FORD could fine tune the CMAX like I have done and add another 4-5mpg  without adding hardly any cost to the CMAX at all. :)

 

Paul

You know, a Escape Hybrid would be just about the only thing that would for sure make me turn in my lease!

[Smiling Jack]

You know, a Escape Hybrid would be just about the only thing that would for sure make me turn in my lease!

 

Ditto.

 

Provided, that is, that it came as a plug-in.

[Kelleytoons]

To me, the C-Max IS an Escape Hybrid -- that was how our salesman referred to it (once we had driven both the Focus hybrid and the Escape and admitted we liked the Escape more).  And, yes, that was what we would like as well.

 

I wouldn't give up Maximis for it, but I'd sure buy it (and then each of us would have a hybrid, although I'm not sure who would drive what).

[mlsstl]

I'll second what Zalusky said. I forget the details, but I read a few months ago that Ford has a completely updated hybrid in the works for 2018 or so that would be replacing the C-Max. Don't remember if they said they were going to keep the name or not (though I've never thought that "C-Max" was a particularly catchy name for a car.)

[timwil56]

I haven't read all the posts, but my thoughts are that the current version of the C-Max Hybrid and Energi will continue to be around until the next gen of battery technology is introduced. New batteries will be smaller and have a greater capacity. This technology is here to stay and will only grow. My guess is the Fusion design will evolve and there will be newly designed HEV and PHEV's that may be closer in size to the Escape/MKC with the smaller sized, larger capacity batteries relocated under the car giving more cargo and passenger volume.

Edit:

Just finished reading all the posts and it seems I'm saying the same as a couple of others. My Energi is the perfect size, the ONLY drawback is the battery hump. I built a platform so when needed I have a flat cargo floor, but it's a hassle to get in and out and assemble and disassemble for storage. I had a 2013 Escape and like my Energi much more because of the freedom from the gas pump. I don't haul a lot of stuff, so I like the size.

Edited May 31, 2015 by timwil56

[SnowStorm]

To me, the C-Max IS an Escape Hybrid -- that was how our salesman referred to it ....

Well, that sounds like a salesman.  As great as it is, the C-Max is not an SUV like the Escape.  It can haul stuff but still needs:

1. Higher ground clearance
2. Towing ability
3. All wheel drive option
4. Spare tire

I hope Ford comes up with several options for the new hybrid(s).  Perhaps a small "highest mileage" hatchback, a sedan (e.g. Fusion), something like the C-Max and a "true" SUV.  All should have the battery integrated under the floor so you get full cargo space.  There should be two or three battery size options and all should be "plug-in" (why not?).  Then there would be a real reason to use EV+!

[timwil56]

Well, that sounds like a salesman.  As great as it is, the C-Max is not an SUV like the Escape.  It can haul stuff but still needs:

1. Higher ground clearance
2. Towing ability
3. All wheel drive option
4. Spare tire

I hope Ford comes up with several options for the new hybrid(s).  Perhaps a small "highest mileage" hatchback, a sedan (e.g. Fusion), something like the C-Max and a "true" SUV.  All should have the battery integrated under the floor so you get full cargo space.  There should be two or three battery size options and all should be "plug-in" (why not?).  Then there would be a real reason to use EV+!

A larger sized car would make it more appealing to more people. A couple of things on your list probably will never happen. You can't tow with a CVT and an all wheel drive version would take too much battery energy to move the car and reduce the battery range too much. Higher ground clearance may happen if the batteries are relocated and it will take a major redesign to include even a doughnut spare.

[plus 3 golfer]

 

... my thoughts are that the current version of the C-Max Hybrid and Energi will continue to be around until the next gen of battery technology is introduced. New batteries will be smaller and have a greater capacity. This technology is here to stay and will only grow....

 

Gains in reducing  battery size and weight while increasing capacity have been minimal.  There is no "break through" in battery technology on the horizon.   People believe Moore's Law also applies to batteries but it does not.   

 

Don't hold your breath for the next generation of battery technology.  But, I do agree that more vehicles will be equipped with HVBs in the near term to raise corporate FE to meet CARB requirements.   HVB costs may drop as more are produced and thus the retail price premium for an HEV and PHEV should drop.  It may make more sense economically to decrease the capacity of the HVB and market "mild" HEVs to the masses to increase corporate FE.  Bigger issue will be whether the Federal tax credits for PHEVs and EVs will be extended / modified.