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Mileage and Build date for eCVT that have failed


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116 replies to this topic

#101 OFFLINE   Bill-N

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 12:04 PM

I had two problems caused by transmission replacement, both of which required the car being towed (and are documented elsewhere in the forums).  First issue was the shift cable became detached.  Second issue was the car becoming comatose after parking; it would neither turn on nor turn off!  Both problems showed up within a couple of months following replacement and were promptly fixed.

 

This was two years ago.  New transmission has performed perfectly since then.  So yes, there's cause for concern following major surgery, but nothing that can't be handled.

 

 

Cheers.


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#102 OFFLINE   gnardie

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:55 PM

Engine light blinking  6k miles after transmission replacement.  At 57000 miles, finally had faulty transmission acknowledged by dealer.  The car had a loud, rounded humming sound on occasion that was grating to the ear.  Also, as mentioned in this thread, at very low speeds with windows down a light metal on metal abrasion sound.  The dealer needed to be pushed to determine a new transmission was needed.  They said they have to run several tests and their diagnostics computers have to spit out the right codes which mean that the transmission 'failed by enough' in order to get authorization to order new transmission.  I was empowered to persist by an independent mechanic saying to me, "We could help you but the problem is definitely the transmission and you are under warranty so take it to Ford."  And the advice of this forum.  

 

Took a 5000 mile summer trip with very little extraneous noise and improved gas mileage by a gallon or two.  Then the engine light came on blinking last week.  Car shuddered and trembled with even minor acceleration.  Manual says using the car with blinking engine light indicates misfire and can damage catalytic converter.  Garaged car for a couple days.  No light on and no tremors.  Taken immediately to Ford.  They have a TSB for this, too.  Reboot/update software.  Costs $240.  Ridiculous.  Car seems good now.  For one day.  


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#103 OFFLINE   Bill-N

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:32 AM

I don't think it should have cost anything to fix the problem (if the car is still under the 100k drive train warranty).


Edited by Bill-N, 10 October 2017 - 10:33 AM.


#104 OFFLINE   snaps8812

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:38 AM

I have a CMax with close to 140,000 miles of mainly highway driving.  The whine that everyone has been complaining about has been around for a good amount of time.  Finally got it into the dealer last week and surprise it needs a new transmission.  The dealership quoted us $8300 to fix.  I had purchased a extended warranty to 125K, but that is expired.  My daughter is now driving the car and it is not worth $8300 to fix this issue, quite honestly.  With the amount of issue Ford is fixing on this issue I feel they should cover some of the $8300, at least half.  My dealership is willing to look at other transmission alternatives like used or rebuilt.  Does anyone have any experience with a non-ford service outfit working on a CMax transmission replacement?



#105 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:04 AM

So did they actually improve the bearings by now or will the transmission still fail if I buy a new '17 C-MAX?



#106 OFFLINE   RobMax

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:43 AM

So did they actually improve the bearings by now or will the transmission still fail if I buy a new '17 C-MAX?

 

If you read the very first post in this thread you'll see that question answered. You can also google the CSP and get any number of good hits.

https://ford.oemdtc....x-fusion-hybrid


Edited by RobMax, 24 October 2017 - 09:19 AM.

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#107 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:51 PM

So did they actually improve the bearings by now or will the transmission still fail if I buy a new '17 C-MAX?

I think you need to look at this post and attachment and the subsequent posts.  Post #1 in this thread is old data.  IMO, to be "more" certain that the problem was fixed, one should buy a 2016 MY or above. 



#108 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:58 PM

I have a CMax with close to 140,000 miles of mainly highway driving.  The whine that everyone has been complaining about has been around for a good amount of time.  Finally got it into the dealer last week and surprise it needs a new transmission.  The dealership quoted us $8300 to fix.  I had purchased a extended warranty to 125K, but that is expired.  My daughter is now driving the car and it is not worth $8300 to fix this issue, quite honestly.  With the amount of issue Ford is fixing on this issue I feel they should cover some of the $8300, at least half.  My dealership is willing to look at other transmission alternatives like used or rebuilt.  Does anyone have any experience with a non-ford service outfit working on a CMax transmission replacement?

Look at this post and attachment and subsequent posts as perhaps instead of spending about $4.8k for a new transmission the "kit" may work.  It's $4.8k for a new transmission vs less than $1k for the kit.  Also, you may be able to get a used transmission for around $1500+ but IMO, make sure it is out of a 2016+ MY as it appears the "transmission issue" has been fixed with MY 2016.


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#109 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 01:50 AM

I would also raise holy hell with Ford, as this is a known defect, at least in my 2013. 

Frank


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#110 OFFLINE   snaps8812

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:18 AM

Thanks.  I not sure that I am completely comfortable with a partial kit replacement.  Absent of a sweetheart deal from Ford, I think we will dump the car as the dealer has offered to give us full trade-in value even with the transmission issue.  He showed me the trade-in is $4700.



#111 OFFLINE   snaps8812

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:23 AM

If you have any suggestions of raising holy hell with Ford, I am listening.  Customer Service has been completely useless. The only shred of hope I have is with the Ford Zone Manager who my dealer is talking with.  When I spoke with Customer Service, I also asked for a supervisor.  I got a call back, but also useless.  Additionally the GM of the dealership I am working with, told me that my transmission doesn't have the right code and is not involved in the earlier customer satisfaction program.  I say "either you have a problem with transmissions or you don't".  It appears on this thread that all 13's & 14's and some 15's are involved.  Very frustrated with Ford.



#112 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 11:11 AM

Thanks.  I not sure that I am completely comfortable with a partial kit replacement.  Absent of a sweetheart deal from Ford, I think we will dump the car as the dealer has offered to give us full trade-in value even with the transmission issue.  He showed me the trade-in is $4700.

After thinking about the transmission issue from the earlier CSP and the latest TSB linked to in my previous post, Ford with the kit now has a way out to not replace any transmission under the unique Hybrid Warranty "caused" by the bearing failure after the 3/36 warranty runs out.  IMO, anyone that does not have an extended warranty will llkely get "screwed" by Ford for this bearing issue since the 8/100 Hybrid Warranty is worthless for this issue.  

 

I would take the trade-in value for your C-Max vs paying $8300 or even 1/2 that to fix it.


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#113 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:13 PM

Sad, but I have to agree with you on this. I would imagine in a year or two there will be trans shops that will do this for $2500-3000. :sad:  It's hard to give up on a car that you like so much.

 

Paul 



#114 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 10:48 AM

Yes, I agree. 

 

This bearing issue was first acknowledged with the SSM on C-Maxes in taxi service (very high mileage vehicles and rather unique operating characteristics), then there were the 4 DOE test vehicles (higher mileage per year vehicles), the CSP, and the TSB which now offers the kit.  It could be that this issue is a systemic issue and the bearing is simply the point of failure not the underlying cause. Perhaps, the system design is flawed and can't be fixed given the current transmission configuration.  So, all transmissions may ultimately suffer this "failure" given the quality of the bearing, how driven, and miles driven sooner than initial design criteria.  

 

As our C-Maxes age and accumulate miles Ford likely expects more failures and now has a TSB that mitigates their financial exposure. Based on averages, 2013 MY would be approaching an average of about 70k miles with subsequent years about 14k miles less per year.  Based on my hypothesis above, we should see an increasing number of failures which should lead to independent shops offering to perform the work which should lower costs.  This is not rocket science and there are likely many Prius trannies (which are similar to ours) that have been replaced / perhaps taken apart by independent shops.  Virtually all quality independent shops should have the subscriptions (like OASIS) and the diagnostic tools to do such work.   

 

I've got 95k miles and likely less than 6 months before my GEICO MBI expires at 100 k miles.  If mine fails after 100k miles, I'll go to an independent shop for quotes.  IIRC, the TSB shows about 12 - 13 hours of labor.  So, that's likely somewhere around $1000 -  $1200 for labor.  Add the kit or a used transmission and $2500 - $3000 seems a likely number.  I'd probably do it for $500 -$1000 more if the used transmission were a 2016+ with low mileage.  


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 25 October 2017 - 10:51 AM.

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#115 ONLINE   obob

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:12 PM

So let me put what I think is being said here with perhaps some small additions to see if I got it right.

 

The transmission problem that used to be fixed under the 8 year 100000 mile hybrid warranty is now being fixed with a kit that doesn't change any hybrid parts.  And in that way it is no longer a hybrid fix so it is covered by the 5 year 60000 mile drive train warranty or an extended warranty.

 

But after that it is not covered by the hybrid warranty because even if the whole transmission including hybrid parts get really messed up bad, it isn't covered by the hybrid warranty because Ford will say it is because of the bearings.



#116 ONLINE   obob

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:20 PM

...  It could be that this issue is a systemic issue and the bearing is simply the point of failure not the underlying cause. Perhaps, the system design is flawed and can't be fixed given the current transmission configuration.  So, all transmissions may ultimately suffer this "failure" given the quality of the bearing, how driven, and miles driven sooner than initial design criteria.  ...

 

 

Interesting.  Has a ring of YES to me.  I am curious what makes non-defective transmission bearings fail.  Vibration, something gets out of balance, something warps  ??

 

Added later:  I had the thought that some kind of resonance thing gets put in play with 2 electric motors and the gas engine.

 

 

(there are other video or resonance on youtube that I find interesting. (like syncing up metronomes) )


Edited by obob, 26 October 2017 - 09:27 AM.


#117 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 06:27 AM

I've never received a letter for this CSP.  I think I have a 2013 that was built in May so it doesn't qualify.  So far no problems but I've only got 77K and mostly around town driving with occasional highway trips on the weekend.    Still doesn't make me warm and fuzzy but I guess if it fails I'll look for another car.  I like the C-MAX, probably more than any other car I've owned but vendors are on the verge of releasing models with even better technology in the next few years.








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