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Help! w/New C-Max Hybrid

battery EV hyrbid

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28 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   jeromep

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 12:54 PM

Not true.  Eco-cruise does in fact maintain a speed, it just does it with an eye to avoiding lead-footed acceleration.  You set it on 60 and you're going 60 most of the time.

 

In response to the original post---you'll find that you'll be on electric about 60% of the time in the city.

 

Correct.  Eco Cruise does work to maintain your speed at your selected set point but without jerking around your throttle when hills, valleys, headwinds and tailwinds change.

 

So, here's a little chestnut of experience from Prius-land which might paint the difference between Eco Cruise and standard cruise.  In my Prius, if you hit an incline while using cruise the vehicle will throttle up as soon as it notices an incline and senses reduced speed.  The Prius's cruise is so sensitive that when you hit a hill and you are doing highway speed (70mph in my neck of the woods), the vehicle will throttle up, sometimes quite noticeably, to compensate for the hill.  The Prius is the only vehicle I've ever driven which can hold a cruise set-point without loosing speed.  When you set it at 70, it stays at 70.  It is remarkable.  The Prius does not have an Eco Cruise equivelant.

 

I've never turned Eco Cruise off on the C-Max, so I'm not sure what it's behavior would be in changing topology, but I suspect that with Eco Cruise off, the vehicle would behave much the same, speed control behavior as the Prius, using aggressive throttle response to maintain the set point.  Eco Cruise reduces the aggressiveness of the throttle response, allowing the vehicle to drift down to a slightly slower speed when hills are encountered and then more gradually coming back to the set point without goosing the throttle.









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#22 OFFLINE   B4804514

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:19 PM

I had the same learning curve. The EMPOWER gauge shows you when battery only is being used. Set that up on the left and watch that as you drive  let up on the accelerator a lot to put it into electric only and learn how to keep it in the electric mode the longest by controlling how hard you accelerate. I get over 50mpg most of the time but you have to pay attention to the gauge and your ankle will get a workout sometimes. The car learns how you drive after 1000 miles and will get it


Edited by B4804514, 29 August 2015 - 12:30 PM.


#23 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 08:31 PM

Hybrid cars absolutely use gasoline - the electric power tries to even out the RPMs and supplement the power of a comparitively weak gas engine but it does not replace need for gasoline. 

 

Yes, I fill up very frequently in my C-MAX (and Prius before that) but typically each trip to the pump is $15 or less.  Use of A/C or heater will cause more energy use. 

 

So when driving I typically accelerate briskly to travel speed and then try to coast/brake/genly accelerate in a way that I can anticipate the traffic ahead and try to maintain a consistent travel speed.  The Coach display in MyView will help you learn these skills if you are new to driving a hybrid.

 

I always try to remain mindful of the traffic around me, so I won't try to time lights, etc. if there is a lot of traffic behind me because I figure it probably irritates the other drivers.  Also, I like the idea of eco-cruise but I find that the net effect is that it makes the car drive in a way that is contrary to good road manners.  It inititally slows down going up a hill, which triggers the traffic behind me to pull out and pass, then it speeds up on the incline, which makes it difficult for the traffic to actually pass.  For that reason I often only use eco-cruise if there is very light traffic on highway, otherwise will leave cruise off or switch to normal cruise mode.   The setting for eco-cruise is in the Settings > Driver Assist menu.


Edited by jestevens, 29 August 2015 - 08:32 PM.

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#24 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 12:48 AM

I had the same learning curve. The EMPOWER gauge shows you when battery only is being used. Set that up on the left and watch that as you drive  let up on the accelerator a lot to put it into electric only and learn how to keep it in the electric mode the longest by controlling how hard you accelerate. I get over 50mpg most of the time but you have to pay attention to the gauge and your ankle will get a workout sometimes. The car learns how you drive after 1000 miles and will get it

 

That's the pitfall a new C-max driver falls into----keeping the empower gauge under the threshold where the ICE engine kicks in.  Resist this.  You'll get better MPGs if you simply drive gently and let the ICE engage when it needs too. 
 

Or to put it another way----you want to avoid electricity for acceleration from a stop, which wastes a ton of battery energy.



#25 OFFLINE   Taz

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 01:21 AM

What has worked well for me is use electric from a stop but max of 2 bars up to about 20 mph. From 20 up to cruise speed I use the ICE. Then I left off the throttle and let it cruise in electric as much as i can. I use a gentle pulse and glide without huge speed variations. If I let it vary more, I get better mileage. In traffic I keep it about a 5-7 mph variation.

 

Current tank in the city is at 55 mpg with no pure EV running on my Energi's main pack. It is currently depleted and no chance to charge until Monday so it is in pure hybrid mode.

 

For comparison my last tank was 39 mpg on a high speed run from LA to San Francisco in 105+ temps. That was a lot of cruising at 80-90 mph on the 5 northbound. I also had a few chances to test out the top speed limiter. 

 

Experiment with your car a bit to see what works best. My mileage really started to improve once I had over 5,000 miles on it.



#26 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:33 AM

...you want to avoid electricity for acceleration from a stop, which wastes a ton of battery energy.

 

What has worked well for me is use electric from a stop but max of 2 bars up to about 20 mph....

Got to love conflicting advice! Adrian's on the right track but Taz method will improve fuel economy.

 

Adrian's right that you can consume a lot of battery charge to accelerate. But the amount of energy needed varies with speed. It's that pesky exponent in the kinetic energy calculation. Energy depends on the speed squared, so 0-30MPH uses 1/4 the energy of 30-60MPH.

 

And that's where Taz hit the nail on the head. Use EV from a stop, but only to get rolling. 20MPH is a guide.

 

The other really good trick is counter-intuitive: run the ICE slower but longer to increase EV miles.

 

As noted, HVB charge comes from running the ICE. Your throttle position varies both engine speed (output power) and the power split between drive and charge. Backing off throttle may not slow the engine RPM, but rather alter the split between drive and charge. That's what you want.

 

The idea is to run the engine slower for a longer period of time. You use the same amount of fuel, but spend more time charging the HVB, so the resulting EV glides can be longer.

 

Yes, traffic behind you will not know what to do about the slowpoke in front of them, but remember, they're in 1st gear with a 15:1 torque multiplication off their overly large engines. After a few feet, they'll shift to 2nd, then 3rd, reducing available torque dramatically.

 

But the slowpoke keeps accelerating, long after following traffic has hit top gear and stopped accelerating, so the final situation is one of a line of traffic traveling at normal speed and spacing.

 

Have fun,

Frank, whose just playing the hybrid game.


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#27 OFFLINE   revanoff2

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 01:51 PM

MG1 is connected to the sun gear at the center of the planetary gear pack.  The ICE is connected to the planet carrier which is connected to the planet gears at the center ring of the planetary gear pack.  MG2 is connected to the outer ring gear and in turn the outer ring gear is connected to the wheels through the final drive.  The only motive device which is actually connected to the wheels of the vehicle is MG2.  MG1 and the ICE cannot independantly motate the vehicle unless MG2 is instructed to move the vehicle by the onboard computers.

 

 

I need this clarified. Based on my interpretation, the only item driving the wheels is MG2... which I don't think is correct. The electric motor itself is rated for 36 hp (?)  and the engine is capable of 152 hp (?), and there are times when the ICE seems to be the only item propelling the vehicle.

 

Can you explain?

 

Thanks!  ;)



#28 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 02:32 PM

Have you ever played with a power-split simulator?

http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

 

The simulator shows your road speed as a function of the speed of the other three elements. The ICE only rotates in one direction, while both motor/generators rotate both directions, as needed. (AC has no polarity.)

 

Have fun,

Frank



#29 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 04:48 PM

Have you ever played with a power-split simulator?

http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

 

The simulator shows your road speed as a function of the speed of the other three elements. The ICE only rotates in one direction, while both motor/generators rotate both directions, as needed. (AC has no polarity.)

 

Have fun,

Frank

 

I think that my mind has been blown. I followed some of his links, after I didn't quite understand MG1 turning backwards at some speeds, when it seemed like it should be going forward. It turns out there are different ideas, but I have now been introduced to "heretical mode." It is very interesting to understand just how the power train works.








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