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Check Engine Light and Rough Idle - in shop 5 weeks now


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15 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   dharrisonz

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 07:49 AM

My 2013 C-MAX has been a good car with no issues (except for dead battery and associated recalls) until 80,000 miles when the check engine light came on and the engine started running rough at idle.

 

The dealer I bought it from said they did something to the computer regards misfires and reset the check engine light ($191.00).  Within 15 miles or so the light came back on.  I took it back to the dealer and before even hooking the car up to diagnostics said it is not the same problem, and were very belligerent and almost hostile to my pleasant inquiries about what could be wrong.

 

I took the car to another dealer (Colonial Ford in Plymouth, MA) whom I am very happy with regards how they treat me and discuss the issue with me.   They have also been very good about keeping the car over night and rechecking to make sure the "fixes" they have made have fixed the issue, but the check engine light continues to comes on and the idle is rough.

 

They have supposedly been on the phone or chat with Ford engineers every day.  Over several weeks they replaced a fuel injector, replaced spark plugs, replaced a connector that they thought was corroded and seemed to make the issue occur if they wiggled it, but the issue continues.  I dont know what the codes are, but there is apparently something out of tolerance and reporting an issue with one particular cylinder.

 

Next they wanted to replace the head, which I thought made little sense because there are no traditional symptoms of a bad head (no exhaust gas leaks, no oil leaks, no coolant leaks, no funny tappet sounds or anything like that).  I asked if maybe the computer or some sensor could be bad or some wires crossed, but they replaced the head (took a week to get parts and a few days to replace it), and then they said they needed to replace or adjust something with the tappets, which indicates to me that the replacement head is probably a used part, so now I have an old major part in my car, AND, of course, it did not fix the problem.  Once you tear down/rebuild an engine like this it is never the same.

 

Now they want to replace the whole computer - not sure how long that will take to get the part.

 

Fortunately I bought extended bumper to bumper warranty when I bought the car, so there will supposedly only be a $100 charge to me if and when they ever fix the problem.    Ford, and/or my extended warranty is covering a service rental, but I am paying $16 a day for no-worry insurance on the rental (this is Massachusetts, the rental insurance is expensive - car rentals in other states only charge $9 for it.  Worth it for a few day rental, but this is now the 4th or 5th week and I cant afford it, but I commute 130 miles a day to work and have to have a reliable car.

 

Although this car has 80,000 miles they are clean highway miles, the car has been serviced regularly at the dealer and is otherwise like new.

 

Nothing like this has ever happened to me before and I am at a loss as to what to do.  Even if they eventually fix the issue I have no confidence in the car - I wish that Ford would just buy me out of the car or give some special incentive to trade it in for something else.   I think Colonial Ford has been straight-up with me and is trying to figure out the issue, but  I am starting to wonder if maybe the extended warranty is just a license to perform work that is not needed - is that possible?

 

 

Suggestions anyone?

 









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#2 OFFLINE   wab

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 09:40 AM

Check with your insurance co.

I've been told by a fairly reliable source ( a few yrs ago) that the  "you need our insurance on the rental" was a scam.

 

If you had a wreck in the rental your insurance co would  rent the rental while it was being repaired.

 

I'm sure someone in the rental/insurance business will dispute/verify this.

Check with your insurance co.


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#3 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 09:53 AM

.... Even if they eventually fix the issue I have no confidence in the car - I wish that Ford would just buy me out of the car or give some special incentive to trade it in for something else.   I think Colonial Ford has been straight-up with me and is trying to figure out the issue, but  I am starting to wonder if maybe the extended warranty is just a license to perform work that is not needed - is that possible?
 
 
Suggestions anyone?

It may be time to start the arbitration process. I'd get in touch with an attorney and discuss what might happen if you go to arbitration assuming Ford can't / hasn't apparently fixed the issue. I'd also assume that Ford isn't going to throw money at this that exceeds the value of the car. A quick check of NADA retail value for a 2013 SE at 80 k miles is around $12,000. So, I wouldn't expect Ford to continue to authorize repairs if the cost of such repairs exceeds the value of the car (eg, an new engine, wiring harnesses, control modules, and so forth).



#4 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 02:34 PM

Check with your insurance co.

I've been told by a fairly reliable source ( a few yrs ago) that the  "you need our insurance on the rental" was a scam.

 

If you had a wreck in the rental your insurance co would  rent the rental while it was being repaired.

 

I'm sure someone in the rental/insurance business will dispute/verify this.

Check with your insurance co.

He is getting the no liability policy, which is supplemental. I generally get it as well, since it is usually 9 bucks for the peace of mind. If I get into an accident, that is 2K or so out of pocket immediately, plus even with no accidents they can complain about anything that appears to have happened to the car, like a windshield pit. I just like the peace of mind that comes with SI. I know for sure that my insurance covers rentals - but not everything.



#5 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 12:34 PM

Suggestions anyone?

 

My experience is that when my car is not working right I feel stuck in a cloud of not goodness, but when it gets corrected I feel better, especially if it is covered under the warranty. 

 

That is not a problem I have seen on this forum.

 

The motor seems solid.

 

It seems like a good thing they are replacing the computer.  

 

What it seems like it needs is one or two of Ford's top mechanics to get on that car, perhaps one electrical and one mechanical.  But top mechanics are probably very very in demand and not a dime and dozen.

 

This reminds me of a problem we had with a large HP printer maybe 15 years ago. It wasn't working. Our service guy was kind of programmed to swap out boards which costs money.  After a couple of these swapping calls I called HP and complained.  I got a top notch guy on the phone.  The problem was the toner cartridge was not seated right, but it was not so unseated that it gave the usual error message, but it gave a misleading  message.

 

This may be something simple, but not easy.

 

You definitely have Ford's attention.  Replacing a head is a big deal.


Edited by obob, 20 October 2015 - 12:53 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 12:45 PM

He is getting the no liability policy, which is supplemental. I generally get it as well, since it is usually 9 bucks for the peace of mind. If I get into an accident, that is 2K or so out of pocket immediately, plus even with no accidents they can complain about anything that appears to have happened to the car, like a windshield pit. I just like the peace of mind that comes with SI. I know for sure that my insurance covers rentals - but not everything.

 

http://www.nerdwalle...-car-insurance/

 

Some credit cards include rental car insurance, primary and or secondary if you pay for the rental with that card.


Edited by obob, 20 October 2015 - 05:08 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 06:34 PM

Kind of sounds like an intake leak which would only show up when idling.  Replacing the Head should have fixed that you would think. Isn't the intake manifold plastic? Maybe it has a crack in it. Just a thought. ;)



#8 OFFLINE   FordService

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 02:58 PM

...Now they want to replace the whole computer - not sure how long that will take to get the part...


Hi dharrisonz,

Do you have any updates regarding the computer coming in and getting replaced?

Meagan

#9 OFFLINE   dharrisonz

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 02:19 PM

Thanks all, for the comments and suggestions...

 

The PCM was replaced yesterday and ran through all the computer updates today.

No change - the engine still runs rough at idle when just charging the battery and the check engine light still comes on.

 

They are trying to get a Ford engineer to come out and review everything that has been done so far.



#10 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 07:41 AM

If it not electrical, I would check the intake manifold again to see if there is a crack in it. They should know what cylinder is causing the problem. Check that intake tube. IMO :)



#11 OFFLINE   dharrisonz

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 10:28 AM

I asked if maybe the intake manifold had a crack or the flappers were stuck on the bad cylinder, but they said the manifold had checked out ok.  I dont know if they did a thorough inspection, but wouldn't they have had to take the manifold off when they replaced the cylinder head?  



#12 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 12:35 PM

I asked if maybe the intake manifold had a crack or the flappers were stuck on the bad cylinder, but they said the manifold had checked out ok.  I dont know if they did a thorough inspection, but wouldn't they have had to take the manifold off when they replaced the cylinder head?  

Yes they would have, but it might be hard to see a crack. I'm worried that they haven't figured it out by now. ;)

 

Paul



#13 OFFLINE   dharrisonz

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 09:15 AM

I decided that for me personally it was not worth the stress and cost  to continue with the situation and traded for a new leftover 2014 Focus.  I think the dealer gave me an ok deal all things considered, but Ford corporate did nothing for me.  



#14 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 10:04 AM

I decided that for me personally it was not worth the stress and cost  to continue with the situation and traded for a new leftover 2014 Focus.  I think the dealer gave me an ok deal all things considered, but Ford corporate did nothing for me.  

It's too bad you are letting Ford off the hook so easy.  But I understand you want to move on.  

 

For others: don't think that the extended Ford warranty offers 100% "peace of mind". ;)  



#15 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 10:08 AM

Sorry to hear things worked out this way, I consider FOCUS a step down from a CMAX and it would be nice to know what the problem was for the rest of us. appreciate you letting us know. :)

 

Paul



#16 OFFLINE   BIG ROCCO

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 05:35 PM

I decided that for me personally it was not worth the stress and cost  to continue with the situation and traded for a new leftover 2014 Focus.  I think the dealer gave me an ok deal all things considered, but Ford corporate did nothing for me.  

Kind of a big move to make for a check engine light and rough idle, but as you said, I guess it wasn't worth the stress.  I was wondering why you chose to replace a '13 C-Max with a Focus and not a '15 C-Max?  Was it because of the problems, or because you just prefer the Focus?

 

Our '13 C-Max with 30K miles was totaled a couple months ago.  We considered other cars - nothing seemed to offer the same package of utility, fuel economy, comfort, power, and purchase price.  OK, so it was going to be a C-Max...but with what options and what color exterior and interior?  Well, we decided to get EXACTLY the same car (SEL, 302A, White Platinum/Medium Stone).  I think we actually paid a little less than we did for '13, and we are happy as pie with the '15.


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