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Just getting normal tires?


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26 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Taiwwa

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 10:44 PM

When it comes time to replace the tires on my C-Max, I'm thinking about just getting normal cheap all-season tires. Good idea? These specialized high pressure tires for efficiency sake are interesting, but the ride is harsh. Also, I tend to carry heavy stuff in my car, so maybe a lower pressure tire can handle that better? I've heard reports that people who change tires from the HE ones suffer a 10% drop in fuel efficiency...which is a lot! But still. 


Edited by Taiwwa, 22 December 2015 - 10:44 PM.








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#2 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 09:53 AM

I would at least stick with a Low Rolling Resistance (LRR) tire.  This opens up the selection of tires quite a bit, but should still keep fuel economy reasonable.  Any tire should still be inflated to at least the pressure listed on the door.  There may be some tires that meet the load rating for the C-Max that  are not rated for 51 psi on the sidewall, but I'm not sure that will ensure that they ride smoother than the stock tires, if both are inflated to the recommended pressure. 

On a C-Max, you might get some relief from the harshness by going to 16" wheels and a tire with a higher sidewall, but that might also sacrifice a bit of handling.



#3 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 05:53 PM

For rolling resistance data, I went to Tire Rack, and found 3 tests of passenger car tires that include fuel economy-based comparisons of rolling resistance.

http://www.tirerack....ay.jsp?ttid=121

http://www.tirerack....ay.jsp?ttid=155

http://www.tirerack....ay.jsp?ttid=188

 

The first showed the widest range, as it included a tire specifically not designed for LRR, as well our OEM Michelin Energy Savers. Thus the 7.3% range in fuel economy is much wider than one might expect. The other two tests show a more-reasonable 2% effect.

 

Tire Rack also has a series of article on why you should expect lower MPG whenever fitting new tires in place of worn, based solely on the diameter change, about 2.5%. Switch from OEM to the Goodyear ComforTred, the 7.3% pair, and add in tread depth and you might make 10%!

 

Finally, it depends on your driving mix, as RR is a much larger fraction of highway fuel usage than for city driving. Tire rack gets into this in the first link.

 

You mention using lower tire pressure (which reduces your car's load capacity) when you carry heavy stuff. Clearly a bad idea, but...

 

Not if you use oversize or reinforced or extended load tires. The OEM rating is a 93 load index, or 1433 lb. Use a tire of greater load capacity and it's safe to reduce pressure.

- Switching from the P-metric P225/50-17 to a Euro-spec 225/50-17 gets you a 94 load index and 44lb. more capacity per tire.

- Switching to an "extended load" 225/50-17 gets you as high as 98 load index, good for 220 lb. more capacity per tire (an available in LRR designs)

 

Food for thought, I hope!

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

PS My Michelin snow tires are XL, yielding a 99 load rating. I see no change in fuel economy when making the switch from summer to winter tires.


Edited by fbov, 05 January 2016 - 05:56 PM.


#4 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 07:56 AM

Hybrids must have low rolling resistance tires.  One time I had standard tires put on my prius without thinking too much about it and within 15 minutes of driving I was right back at the tire place begging them to change them out.  That nice glide/coasting ability that hybrids have once you get them up to speed comes from the LRR tire.  Using regular tires everything in the drivetrain has to work harder and you lose a big part of the MPG advantage.  As fbov suggested tire rack makes it easy to select LRR search option so you can compare..

 

I will only say that when these tires are up, I'll probably go back to the OEM tire, I tried a different manufacturer LRR tire from Pirelli, and the grip was improved, nice in the winter but I still think I'm losing MPG vs. what I would be getting with the OEM tires.


Edited by jestevens, 06 January 2016 - 07:57 AM.

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#5 OFFLINE   cmax-nynj

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 08:59 PM

Gas is dirt cheap and if I were to change tires now it would not be LRR tires.  The car can benefit from better grip in dry; wet; braking and cornering.  The only drawback maybe more road noise.


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#6 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 11:26 AM

If your tires are worn I don't blame you, any tire with tread is better than one without I suppose.

 

I ended up buying these - and I felt they were good in the winter for Central PA last year (not much snow yet this year) - bear in mind we measure snow in inches instead of feet and most of my travels are paved/don't include really steep hills.  In the snow they were just a little slippery first starting out until they "bit into" the snow - then they were great...

 

http://www.tirerack....=36-151547787-2

 

Not the cheapest tire, not the most expensive..a local shop was willing to give me a discount.  I don't hypermile and still average 40MPG.  I am not sure I'm going to get anywhere near the rated life out of them and because of that and protentially higher MPG will probably save up and go back to OEMs once these are done.



#7 OFFLINE   cmax-nynj

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 10:19 PM

How's the tire noise of the Pirelli compared to the OEM Michelins?



#8 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 07:39 AM

Until you mentioned "tire noise" I hadn't even considered it so I guess it must be pretty good..not like the Goodrich Traction T/A I used to run in my HHR.  I think overall they are a very nice tire, the only thing seems to be that my MPG gauge is "stuck" at 40MPG all the time..if I drive hard it might get down to 38MPG for a short while but I have to work hard to even get a few tenths over 40MPG.  I typically run tires at 40PSI, I guess the max rating is 51PSI.  

 

I just had my 50,000mi service done and they measured the tread at 6/32 all around for 17K miles of use so I guess I really must have been enjoying them.  Needless to say I don't think I'll have to worry about the 70,000mi service life warranty expiring.  Other folks on tire rack have also noted that they don't seem to live up to the lifetime mileage claim.

 

The other tire I used to use on my Prius was the Bridgestone Ecopia 422, they seemed fine as well, maybe a little more noise.  I am willing to bet that from what others say that OEM tire is probably the best one for C-MAX as far as balancing wear, MPG, etc.

 

How's the tire noise of the Pirelli compared to the OEM Michelins?


Edited by jestevens, 19 January 2016 - 07:42 AM.


#9 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:50 PM

My daughter had Toyota Dealer put Cooper tires on her Prius thinking they would they put a LLR tire on. Wrong, she lost 3-4 mpg and is stuck with them until they're worn out.  It was very disappointing to lose that much MPG's. :sad: 

 

Paul 


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#10 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:31 PM

By the reviews alone these tires look like they could potentially be good too.. http://www.tirerack....autoModClar=SEL

#11 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 11:51 AM

By the reviews alone these tires look like they could potentially be good too.. http://www.tirerack....autoModClar=SEL

I saw some negative comments on mpg's and tire noise. no positive MPG's comments and no Hybrids. ;)  I would stick with Michelin. :) Buy slightly used ones on eBay for less.

 

Paul



#12 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:30 PM

Just to put in my experience. I had a Ford Escape Hybrid 2008. I busted out a tire on one side and had to replace both rear tires. I went with the recommended Costco tire, which was based on the ICE Escape. My mileage immediately dropped by 2 - 3 (and I only got 30 on the FEH). When it came time to replace the front tires, I replaced all four and the MPG went back up.

 

The tires I got had excellent grip and were great handling. But the MPG suffers. I highly recommend getting LRR tires for the hybrids.


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#13 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:37 PM

You've linked to a very different tire. I've run Conti snows many years and so was interested in these as a snow-capable all-season tire. The tread wear indicators are in a dry-wet-snow (DWS) series, each showing when tread depth has reached the point of diminishing returns under those conditions.

Fortunately, there's a test report comparing them with the new Michelin Premier A/S. Same fuel use for Premier as for the Conti; the LRR winner was the P7. Given it's also got excellent wet and dry handling, I'd certainly consider them.

 

Have fun,

Frank



#14 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 01:15 PM

You've linked to a very different tire. I've run Conti snows many years and so was interested in these as a snow-capable all-season tire. The tread wear indicators are in a dry-wet-snow (DWS) series, each showing when tread depth has reached the point of diminishing returns under those conditions.

Fortunately, there's a test report comparing them with the new Michelin Premier A/S. Same fuel use for Premier as for the Conti; the LRR winner was the P7. Given it's also got excellent wet and dry handling, I'd certainly consider them.

 

Have fun,

Frank

Would have been nice if they would have had one of the Prius Test ECO tires in this test to have a comparison for FE differences. :)

 

Paul



#15 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 05:05 PM

I saw some negative comments on mpg's and tire noise. no positive MPG's comments and no Hybrids. ;)  I would stick with Michelin. :) Buy slightly used ones on eBay for less.

 

Paul

 

I've spent some time on a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid forum and many there have really liked the Continental Pure Contact EcoPlus. Granted, they have either Kumho or Hankook as the original tires; but it seems like most there have found the EcoPlus as their favorite tires on their Hybrids, that it offers good performance with equal mpgs.


Edited by raadsel, 20 January 2016 - 05:09 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 06:25 PM

I've spent some time on a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid forum and many there have really liked the Continental Pure Contact EcoPlus. Granted, they have either Kumho or Hankook as the original tires; but it seems like most there have found the EcoPlus as their favorite tires on their Hybrids, that it offers good performance with equal mpgs.

I didn't see any Hyundai Sonata's on Tire Rack Customer comments. ;)   I guess if someone gets them we will find out how they do. :)

 

Paul



#17 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:40 PM

I've spent some time on a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid forum and many there have really liked the Continental Pure Contact EcoPlus. Granted, they have either Kumho or Hankook as the original tires; but it seems like most there have found the EcoPlus as their favorite tires on their Hybrids, that it offers good performance with equal mpgs.

I think that was the OEM tire for my 2008 Escape Hybrid. Or one similar from Continental.



#18 OFFLINE   Taiwwa

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:36 PM

Returning to this thread.

 

Yeah, I get that losing 3-4MPG isn't great, but if you're still getting in the high 30's or low 40's, that's far less of a loss than if you went from like 17MPG to 12 MPG. 

 

I'm seriously thinking that I'm going to ditch LRR's when it comes time to change. There are a lot of gravel roads here and the LRR's don't seem good at all for them. Like, they have chunks ripped out of them thanks to the gravel roads. 

 

Also, occasionally on wet pavement in summertime my tires are slipping. 

 

Hybrids IMO probably need LRR's less than other cars because the hybrid powertrain is so efficient. 



#19 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:59 PM

I'm not sure a Hybrid was the right car for the job. Maybe an F150 or Focus or Escape. :drop:  :shrug:

 

Paul



#20 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:05 AM

With a hybrid the whole car is set up to make it as easy to "coast" as long as possible, my experience has been that traditional tires are a lot "stickier" than LRR tires and defeats the ability to coast by a significant amount - you will use more throttle to get the car up to speed from a stop and probably also need to maintain enough throttle to be forced to use ICE while driving as well.

 

I don't know if there is another LRR formulation that works better for back roads but I have noticed that it is true LRR tires don't seem to last as long as the others.








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