slbenz Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Hi Everyone, What a way to start my Christmas Day! My 2013 C-Max Energi decided as my family and I were going to grandma's house for Christmas, the engine overheat light comes on. Check the coolant fluids and everything is fine. Suspect the thermostat went out. Anyone know where the thermostat is located and steps necessary to replace it? I have replaced thermostats before in other cars but with having two engines under the hood, can't seem to find it so that I can replace it. Thanks everyone in advance and Merry Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbob Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Item:18 Part Number:8A586 Description:Thermostat housing obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Thanks for the diagram. That is a big help. Looks like it is located on the driver's side behind the radiator. Much different than what I found via Google search saying it is behind the passenger headlight between two belts. Thanks again and I hope to obtain the parts later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian_L Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Could be a faulty sensor. Maybe test the thermostat in hot water before you buy another? obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obob Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) Could be a faulty sensor. Maybe test the thermostat in hot water before you buy another? I was thinking along these lines, though I understand you may have already eliminated this possibility. I was thinking I could use the Forscan ahndroid app with my bluetooth OBD to monitor water temp. What may also work is just using the temp gauge in MyView to see if it goes above the usually spot, or for that matter whether it reads correctly when cold and moves gradually like it usually does. FYI slbenz, I do not recall anyone on the forum having engine overheat light come on. Edited December 26, 2015 by obob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obob Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Item:18 Part Number:8A586 Description:Thermostat housing Just though I would mention, I had a good inner laugh looking at this diagram. Kind of thought to myself, Oh you have to remove the head gasket to change the thermostat. I recall having a 1966 tempest and the bumper had to be dropped to change the tail light lens. It seems like a lot work and money goes into these manuals and diagrams. I can see why car manufacturers need to maximize using the same parts on many models and not redesigning things too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Went to the dealer today and described the problem and the red engine temperature light coming on. They suspect the same problem with the thermostat. Parts ordered for Monday delivery. Also, when the engine became hot, the limp mode came on to protect the engine, if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-N Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 I hope it really is just the thermostat. In my experience, thermostats fail "open" so that engines don't overheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 I would agree normally but my 2007 Mazda 5 had a similar issue and the thermostat failed in a closed position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbob Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 My 1995 F-150 is on it's 3rd thermostat. In both cases when it started to go bad the coolant temperature would vary quite a bit, eventually drifting hotter and hotter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 The generally "accepted" test for a failed thermostat (or water pump) absent a diagnostic tool is to see if the outlet hose from the radiator is "cool" when the car is really overheating. Using ForScan might quickly point to the issue as it would show DTCs and data including perhaps status of various components that could affect cooling. There should be at least one DTC for the engine overheat condition when the dash light comes on. When the PCM (based on Cylinder Head Temperature sensor data) triggered the "limp" mode another DTC should have been set. IIRC, the trigger point for the engine overheat condition is in excess of 235 F. From the OBDII Operations Manual, if CHT > 270 F, DTC P1299 is set and MIL illuminates immediately . Fuel shut-off is activated to reduce engine and coolant temperature. This DTC along with other CHT checks and possible DTCs are included in the Enhanced Thermostat Monitor function and coolant pump monitoring (e.g.,P26CB – Engine Coolant Pump Performance/Stuck Off). IIRC, someone did get to the first step of the fail-safe cooling algorithm where the dash overheat light illuminates (not MIL) with grille covers on and going uphill at a fairly high speed. With my grille covers on, I've seen the ForScan ECT PID reading in the mid 230s F going uphill at 70+ mph on interstates with ambient temp around 50 F. When this happens, the grille shutter PIDs show the shutters are wide open (but of course air flow is blocked by the covers). :) obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 Checking with my scanner, I did not see any codes come up. I'll talk with the dealer on Monday about this more when the parts come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obob Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) Checking with my scanner, I did not see any codes come up. I'll talk with the dealer on Monday about this more when the parts come in. What I was referring to with Forscan is continual update of engine temperature into an android tablet or phone, not a error code from something like this http://www.amazon.com/Autel-MaxiScan-MS300-Diagnostic-Vehicles/dp/B001LHVOVK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451263291&sr=8-1&keywords=obd+reader Edited December 28, 2015 by obob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 Checking with my scanner, I did not see any codes come up. I'll talk with the dealer on Monday about this more when the parts come in.ForScan scans all Ford modules for codes. Generic scanners will likely not scan all modules for codes. Did the "check engine light come on (MIL)"? Has the car over heated after the first incident? Hope the thermostat is the problem. Are you still covered under the 3/36 B2B warranty? Below is the cooling strategy from the Shop Manual. When reading this I assume that P1285 might not be stored if the condition that triggered it went away since it doesn't trigger an MIL. But it certainly seems like if you lost power ("limp" mode where fuel injection is disabled into alternating cylinders). P1299 should be stored until reset and you should have got an MIL (check engine light). Also with ForScan (like obob was saying) you can monitor data points (PIDs) like engine coolant temperature (inferred from the Cylinder Head Temperature sensor) on a continual basis. On longer trips, I continually monitor data like coolant temperature, grille shutter position, and tire pressure, voltage and so forth for abnormal readings. Fail Safe Cooling Strategy The fail safe cooling strategy is only activated by the PCM when an overheating condition has been identified. This strategy provides engine temperature control when the cylinder head temperature exceeds certain limits. The cylinder head temperature is measured by the cylinder head temperature (CHT) sensor. ... Engine temperature is controlled by alternating the number of disabled fuel injectors, allowing all cylinders to cool. When the fuel injectors are disabled, the respective cylinders work as air pumps, and this air is used to cool the cylinders. The more fuel injectors that are disabled, the cooler the engine runs, but the engine has less power....Before injectors are disabled, the fail safe cooling strategy alerts the customer to a cooling system problem by illuminating the instrument panel cluster (IPC) temperature light and setting DTC P1285. Depending on the vehicle, other indicators such as an audible chime or warning lamp, can be used to alert the customer of fail safe cooling. If overheating continues, the strategy begins to disable the fuel injectors, DTC P1299 is stored in the PCM memory, and a malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminates. If the overheating condition continues and a critical temperature is reached, all fuel injectors are turned OFF and the engine is disabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Yes the car overheated again when we let it cool. No check engine light ever came on. Only the engine overheat light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Went to the dealer today and described the problem and the red engine temperature light coming on. They suspect the same problem with the thermostat. Parts ordered for Monday delivery. Also, when the engine became hot, the limp mode came on to protect the engine, if that helps. Let me know how your dealer visit goes, as well as your current mileage, and I'll see how to assist. Meagan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Went to the dealer this morning. Picked up all the necessary parts to do the thermostat replacement. Based on the diagrams posted here and given to me by the dealer, it was easy to locate the thermostat which is located underneath near the oil filter by the driver's side. After removing the undercarriage cover, it was easy to use an 8mm wrench to remove the two bolts holding the thermostat housing together. Once I was able to remove the old thermostat, I tested it in hot water and found it was defective. The most difficult part of this job was to refill the radiator with coolant back to its normal levels. Attached is a picture of the silver colored thermostat housing in the center of the picture that has the two 8mm bolts holding it together. Thanks to everyone for sharing the diagrams that made it very easy to locate the part. Total time was under 30 minutes to complete the job. jdbob, obob and JAZ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wab Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Good job, saved you a couple hundred!Is there anything special about the thermostat? If it's a standard thermostat then Autozone, O'Reilly etc should be cheaper and much more convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-N Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Well done. Glad that it was indeed "just" the thermostat. Excellent picture, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Good job, saved you a couple hundred!Is there anything special about the thermostat? If it's a standard thermostat then Autozone, O'Reilly etc should be cheaper and much more convenient. Nothing special. It is a standard thermostat that I remember from a car I had from the 70's. I did go to O'Reilly but the young man had attitude when I told him the problem. And the price was not much different than the dealer and would have taken longer to arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Well done. Glad that it was indeed "just" the thermostat. Excellent picture, too.Thanks. Used my smartphone and was hoping the picture will be useful for others in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottwood2 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thx for the info and pic. What are they using for sealant on this? Is it a gasket? I would guess it is sealant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbenz Posted December 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thx for the info and pic. What are they using for sealant on this? Is it a gasket? I would guess it is sealant. Actually it is a simple rubber gasket that you fit right over the thermostat. Then you put the two halves together and bolt them closed. Had to use a flat head screwdriver to remove the original rubber gasket. It was very easy to remove and install. Most time consuming step(s) was refilling the coolant to the correct level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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