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Guest Message by DevFuse

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2017 Kia Niro


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95 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   djc

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 06:50 PM

Looks nice. 

They say the base model is  270kg (about 600lbs = 4 adults) lighter than the tested SX.  I am curious how that is possible.  Electronics don't weigh much.  Wheels and tires are heavy so maybe that accounts for some of it.  Maybe a sunroof?  That large weight difference between trim lines with same body and drive train is mysterious.  For example, looks like difference between C-max SE and SEL is at most a couple hundred pounds.









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#82 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 07:52 PM

That seems odd to me too. :headscratch:  I would be surprised if there was more than a hundred pounds difference between SE and SEL. 

 

Paul



#83 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 07:58 PM

If you look on Kia.com, the Touring model weighs the most - about 170 pounds more than the base model.  The Touring has 18 inch rims and 225 tires while the base has 16 inch rims and 205 tires.  Hence, this likely accounts for the most of the decrease in FE of the Touring vs Base.  Also, the Touring is slightly taller (0.4 inches) than the base due to roof rails which the Base doesn't have.  So, don't know where the 600 pounds comes from.

 

Also, when comparing the height and width of the C-Max (63.8" tall and 72 " wide, excluding mirrors) with the Niro at 60.4 / 60.8 " tall and 71.1 " wide (assume excluding mirrors), the frontal area of the Niro is likely about 8% less than the C-Max.  So, it's easy to see why the Niro with about 3% less Cd (0.29 Cd vs 0.30 for the C-Max), 8% less frontal area than the C-Max, and  weighing about 534 pounds less than the C-Max, the Niro is rated at 52/49 MPG vs 42/38 for the C-Max. 



#84 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:03 PM

If you look on Kia.com, the Touring model weighs the most - about 170 pounds more than the base model.  The Touring has 18 inch rims and 225 tires while the base has 16 inch rims and 205 tires.  Hence, this likely accounts for the most of the decrease in FE of the Touring vs Base.  Also, the Touring is slightly taller (0.4 inches) than the base due to roof rails which the Base doesn't have.  So, don't know where the 600 pounds comes from.

 

Also, when comparing the height and width of the C-Max (63.8" tall and 72 " wide, excluding mirrors) with the Niro at 60.4 / 60.8 " tall and 71.1 " wide (assume excluding mirrors), the frontal area of the Niro is likely about 8% less than the C-Max.  So, it's easy to see why the Niro with about 3% less Cd (0.29 Cd vs 0.30 for the C-Max), 8% less frontal area than the C-Max, and  weighing about 534 pounds less than the C-Max, the Niro is rated at 52/49 MPG vs 42/38 for the C-Max. 

 

You beat me to it, I was just about to post that. I'm guessing that it was a mistake, that the difference is actually around 60 kg on the Canadian models (the US has four models, like the SX equals the Touring), that someone accidentally added a zero. Beyond the tires, the Touring also comes with a sunroof.

 

The other advantage the Niro is going to have in fuel economy, over the C-Max, is the engine. Like the new Prius, the Niro's engine has a thermal efficiency of about 40%.


Edited by raadsel, 06 February 2017 - 08:05 PM.


#85 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 04:07 PM

GDI and resulting increased compression will do that... Ford was introducing GDI in conventional engines when C-Max came out, so I'd expect to see it in the next generation. 

Frank



#86 OFFLINE   nsteblay

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:38 PM

I test drove the Niro today.  It is on my shortlist of new cars I'm considering for a summer purchase.  Here are some of my key take-aways.

 

  • The car is attractive and comfortable.  I felt like I was riding as high if not higher than my C-Max, had as much room on the inside, seats were as comfortable, and visibility was good. My wife really liked it.
  • The tech looks good.  I like it better than my 2013 C-Max.  Has Apple Carplay and Android Auto with a nice touch screen that is very accessible.  Has a wireless charging pad for a Samsung phone. Has the sensors that you are commonly seeing in most new cars.  Also, keyless, unlocking with touch, sensing wipers, automatic climate control, etc.
  • Handling was good.  The 6-speed versus CVT didn't really change my perception of the ride. I guess I have no preference.
  • It seemed to have much slower acceleration. It was a short test drive, so it may be an unfair assessment, but it definitely didn't have the spunk of my C-Max.  Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it on the freeway, so I wasn't able to kick it down in a merge situation. I'm sure it has adequate power for typical freeway driving. I'll need to test drive again before buying.

We also drove the Rav4 Hybrid with AWD.  Super nice car but a good chunk more expensive and interestingly not as comfortable.  Also much lower gas mileage.  I also don't like the Toyota tech, no Carplay or Android Auto.

 

I'll be checking out the Honda HR-V also, even though it isn't a hybrid.

 

Right now the Niro is on the top of our list.  I wish Ford had the next generation hybrid out to consider.  



#87 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 11:09 PM

What MPG's were you getting? What trim level? Were you able to EV for longer distance than CMAX and how was the EV power, acceleration?

Paul

#88 OFFLINE   AZgman

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:21 AM

I test drove the Niro today.  It is on my shortlist of new cars I'm considering for a summer purchase.  Here are some of my key take-aways.

 

  • The car is attractive and comfortable.  I felt like I was riding as high if not higher than my C-Max, had as much room on the inside, seats were as comfortable, and visibility was good. My wife really liked it.
  • The tech looks good.  I like it better than my 2013 C-Max.  Has Apple Carplay and Android Auto with a nice touch screen that is very accessible.  Has a wireless charging pad for a Samsung phone. Has the sensors that you are commonly seeing in most new cars.  Also, keyless, unlocking with touch, sensing wipers, automatic climate control, etc.
  • Handling was good.  The 6-speed versus CVT didn't really change my perception of the ride. I guess I have no preference.
  • It seemed to have much slower acceleration. It was a short test drive, so it may be an unfair assessment, but it definitely didn't have the spunk of my C-Max.  Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it on the freeway, so I wasn't able to kick it down in a merge situation. I'm sure it has adequate power for typical freeway driving. I'll need to test drive again before buying.

We also drove the Rav4 Hybrid with AWD.  Super nice car but a good chunk more expensive and interestingly not as comfortable.  Also much lower gas mileage.  I also don't like the Toyota tech, no Carplay or Android Auto.

 

I'll be checking out the Honda HR-V also, even though it isn't a hybrid.

 

Right now the Niro is on the top of our list.  I wish Ford had the next generation hybrid out to consider.  

 

Are you not considering a 2017 C-Max? If not, why?  The 2017 C-MAX has a power passenger seat, Car Play/Android Auto, Blind Spot monitoring, Xenon Headlights and all of the bugs worked out. I do agree with you about the RAV4 Hybrid BTW.



#89 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:14 AM

What MPG's were you getting? What trim level? Were you able to EV for longer distance than CMAX and how was the EV power, acceleration?

Paul

 

For trim level, it sounds as if he were driving the very top model, since the wireless phone charger is part of an option package only available on the top of the line Touring.



#90 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:16 AM

Are you not considering a 2017 C-Max? If not, why?  The 2017 C-MAX has a power passenger seat, Car Play/Android Auto, Blind Spot monitoring, Xenon Headlights and all of the bugs worked out. I do agree with you about the RAV4 Hybrid BTW.

 

While I agree they finally added some nicer features by adding the Platinum model, it is still missing the Autonomous braking, Smart Cruise Control, etc. that would have been on the Niro he test drove.



#91 OFFLINE   nsteblay

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:24 PM

I believe I drove the EX ... not entirely sure.  It was a very short trip and I didn't check the MPG for it.  

 

I already have a C-Max ... but you're right, I am thinking about another C-Max.  If you've invested recently in a C-Max you made a good choice.

 

I have an Automatic OBD II and capture metrics on every drive.  My 2016 yearly MPG average was 44.8.  Here is a graphic of my MPG this last year.  I live in Minnesota so you can see the variability by temperature.  Average MPH per trip was only 35 as I use the C-Max predominately for freeway commuting during rush hours.  It would be much lower if my average MPH was higher.  For longer freeway trips with no traffic, where my average MPH is closer to 50 MPH, I get just under 40 MPG in warm weather.  I believe the Niro will get a more consistent MPG even at higher speeds, similar to the Prius.  I'll wait to see what owners report these next couple of month.  I joined a Niro forum.

  

 

Graph

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#92 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:28 PM

I test drove top on line KIA NIRO Touring at Peoria KIA in Pheonix, AZ Today with mixed review . I drove16.1 miles, 7 HWY and 9.1 mi City getting 45.1MPG's working on getting good MPG's. Exterior looks nice, interior looks cheap for Top of the Line($33k) and didn't have rain sensing wippers. It reminded me of improved Prius V without the extra space, the EV Mode is gutless and above 40 mph the ICE is on all the time. NIRO is noticeably lighter, but I don't think it handles better than CMAX. As far as acceleration goes CMAX is in a class by itself. IMO NIRO Touring isn't as nice as CMAX SEL. BTW I would get around 55 mpg with my 2013 CMAX

Paul

Edited by ptjones, 19 February 2017 - 10:34 PM.


#93 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:03 PM

I believe I drove the EX ... not entirely sure.  It was a very short trip and I didn't check the MPG for it.  
 
I already have a C-Max ... but you're right, I am thinking about another C-Max.  If you've invested recently in a C-Max you made a good choice.
 
I have an Automatic OBD II and capture metrics on every drive.  My 2016 yearly MPG average was 44.8.  Here is a graphic of my MPG this last year.  I live in Minnesota so you can see the variability by temperature.  Average MPH per trip was only 35 as I use the C-Max predominately for freeway commuting during rush hours.  It would be much lower if my average MPH was higher.  For longer freeway trips with no traffic, where my average MPH is closer to 50 MPH, I get just under 40 MPG in warm weather.  I believe the Niro will get a more consistent MPG even at higher speeds, similar to the Prius.  I'll wait to see what owners report these next couple of month.  I joined a Niro forum.


Doesn't sound like you are using Grill Covers which is good for at least 2 mpg and oil pan heater if you don't have block heater.

Paul

#94 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 08:29 PM

I drove a Prius V 2017 model three from Findley Toyota Flagstaff, AZ. The car seems nice the supension was a little stiffer than the NIRO and felt a little heavier not sure about the handling it definitely accelerates slower than the Nero and of course no comparison to the CMAX. It's very obvious KIA was going after Prius owners, NIRO Salesman said Prius owners bought their NIRO's. IMO I don't think CMAX Owners would get much better mpg's than NIRO and 2017 CMAX TITANIUM Is overall a better Hybrid.

Paul

#95 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted Yesterday, 01:56 PM

SnowStorm, I think they had to draft trucks to get those high levels.  Can't get around aero drag otherwise, the big energy sapper.

The main truth to get elevated MPG levels is to get the engine to operate at around 75% max cylinder loading at around 1900 rpm or so (highest efficiency).   The engine computer tries to do that, but the way we drive can obviously help.   Some complexity to it, yet the main rule is "When the engine has to run, it should be at peak efficiency, since all energy in a hybrid comes from gasoline." (non-plugin hybrid of course)

 

About the Niro, it appears Kia-Hyundai just didn't want to pay for the planetary gearset patents (Toyota) like Ford cut a deal for.  I like the clutchless, smooth power blending in the CMax and Prius better than using a complicated clunky DCT (Niro).  ........  I read a review on the Niro recently, and the car experts noticed the transmission did some very annoying things.    My opinion is the Niro is a no-buy.  (Buy the Kia Soul Electric if you want a green Kia, that one is good.) The Niro is good except for the power setup, which is important.



#96 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted Today, 02:22 PM

Yeah, the Niro won't be anything I'd be interested in, for exactly the reasons you mention.








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