tracks_II Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) I have a 2014 C-Max SEL with about 47,150 miles on it. Until today it has performed flawlessly. We live in the Boise, ID. area and this year for spring break we decided to take our two kids to Tillamook, OR. We made the 500 mile drive yesterday and the C-Max purred the whole way. This afternoon, after spending a few hours at the ocean, we were going up a moderate grade when I noticed that I had to hold the accelerator down all the way to keep up with traffic going 45 mph. I looked down at the instruments and saw that the ICE was off and the electric motor was at max output. I had about enough time to think to myself "that's kind of odd" when "Stop Safely Now" popped up. I had to drive about a 1/2 mile to find a pullout. Once I was safely stopped, I shut off the ignition, waited about 5 minutes and pushed the start button. All electric functions resumed, but the ICE never started, (it didn't turn over, it didn't click...just a whole lot of nothing). Because I wasn't in the best of places to stop safely for a long period, I made a u-turn and drove about a 1/4 mile to a wider spot in the road. Once again I noticed that the electric drive was working fine, (it even showed that it was recharging when I coasted for a 100 yards), but the ICE remained dead.I called Road Side Assistance and they arraigned a tow to Tillamook Ford. Unfortunately the service department isn't open on Saturdays, but the dealership was kind enough to rent me their courtesy vehicle. I've been searching the forums for troubleshooting ideas, but haven't found anything that fits my symptoms. Any ideas would be welcome.Oh, just a few final notes. There's 3/4 of a tank of gas. All electric functions work normally. There are no trouble codes or warnings. I think the reason for the SSN message was that the hybrid battery was below 20% charge, (but can't confirm this idea). Edited March 20, 2016 by tracks_II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Welcome (I guess). :) Did you try to force ICE to start (run) on startup by pushing the gas pedal to the floor and then pushing the start button? "The generator motor provides the engine cranking function to start or restart the internal combustion engine. When the PCM requests the engine cranking mode, the generator motor rapidly accelerates the engine speed up to about 950 RPM in about 0.3 seconds. When the engine speed reaches a calibrated speed the PCM commands the delivery of fuel and spark at the appropriate time." How do you know there are no trouble codes? Did you scan all modules via the OBDII port (for example, with the ForScan smartphone App)? The PCM may have initiated a Limited Operating Strategy (LOS) mode since you could drive the car in EV mode after you restarted it. I would think there would be diagnostic trouble codes stored as you did get the message to stop safely. Maybe it's as simple as a bad fuel pump relay / fuse which would likely be detected by the PCM. I suppose you could check all fuses related to the PCM / ICE operations as maybe there is a bad one. Keep us informed please as to the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracks_II Posted March 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Thanks for the welcome Plus 3. I did try to force the ICE to start using the method you described. Nothing happened. As far as trouble codes, I should have been more specific. I meant to say that no other warning messages were being displayed. (Sorry about that.) For DTC diagnostics on my other Ford vehicles, I use AutoEnginuity. But I've never hooked it up to the C-Max. I don't know if it will read anything besides the generic codes. Not that it matters right now, my AE data port is 500 miles away. I will be sure to keep this thread updated as I learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracks_II Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Update: The service department at Tillamook Ford diagnosed a failed fuel pump. They installed a new one and all is working as designed. A heartfelt thank you to Dave, the service advisor, and Joe, the tech who worked on the C-Max. They were working the problem at 8:00 this morning, moving me to the head of the line. Joe also took the time to explain how he troubleshot the problem. Because of the mode of failure there wasn't going to be any outward signs of a fuel pump failure. I asked both of them what failures they are seeing in general with the C-Max. They said this is the first fuel pump failure they have seen on a C-Max. The only issue they are experiencing is the failure of the 12 volt battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Sounds like a great service dept. Were there any diagnostic trouble codes present (should be on the Service Order)? Was it covered under warranty as it appears the fuel tank must be dropped to get to the FP. I'll bet there's 2+ hours labor plus around a $250+ for the FP. For reference (in case others have a similar issue), four DTC's related to the FP and FP module are shown below. For those with ForScan (full version for laptop I believe) or VCM II, you can run a test to turn the FP on and off. U0109 - Lost Communication With Fuel Pump Control Module A Description: If the FPM circuit is fixed at a low or high voltage, the PCM begins to increment a counter. This DTC sets when the PCM is not detecting a duty cycled signal on the FPM circuit after a calibrated amount of time. Possible Causes: FPM circuit open FPM circuit short to ground FPM circuit short to voltage VPWR fuel circuit open GND circuit open Damaged fuel pump control module relay Diagnostic Aids: Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All GO to Pinpoint Test KC . P025A - Fuel Pump Module Control Circuit/Open Description: When the PCM commands the fuel pump (FP) ON, the PCM is able to detect a short to voltage on the FPC circuit. When the PCM commands the FP OFF, the PCM is able to detect an open circuit or a short to ground on the FPC circuit. This DTC sets when the FPC voltage is less than or greater than a calibrated limit, for a calibrated amount of time. Possible Causes: FPC circuit open or short to ground FPC circuit short to voltage Damaged fuel pump control module Diagnostic Aids: Check for any harness concerns. Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All GO to Pinpoint Test KC . P025B - Fuel Pump Module Control Circuit Range/Performance Description: The fuel pump control module determines if the signal from the PCM on the FPC circuit is a valid duty cycle and frequency. If the duty cycle or frequency is invalid, the fuel pump control module sends a 20% duty cycle signal on the FPM circuit to report the concern to the PCM. This DTC sets when the fuel pump control module is still reporting that it is receiving an invalid duty cycle or frequency from the PCM after a calibrated amount of time. Possible Causes: FPC circuit open or short to ground FPC circuit short to voltage Radio frequency interference or electromagnetic interference Damaged fuel pump control module Damaged PCM Diagnostic Aids: Check the harness for routing, alterations, incorrect shielding, or electrical interference from other systems. Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All GO to Pinpoint Test KC . P0627 - Fuel Pump A Control Circuit/Open Description: The fuel pump control module monitors the fuel pump module and secondary circuits for a concern. If the fuel pump control module detects a concern with the fuel pump assembly or secondary circuits, the fuel pump control module sends an 80% duty cycle signal on the FPM circuit to report the concern to the PCM. This DTC sets when the fuel pump control module is still reporting a concern with the fuel pump module or secondary circuits after a calibrated amount of time. Possible Causes: FPPWR circuit open FPPWR circuit short to ground FPPWR circuit short to voltage FPRTN circuit open FPRTN circuit short to voltage Damaged fuel pump assembly Damaged fuel pump control module Diagnostic Aids: Check for any harness concerns. The fuel pump control module controls the speed of the fuel pump module by supplying a variable voltage to the fuel pump assembly on the FPPWR circuit. Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All GO to Pinpoint Test KC . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottwood2 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Thx for sharing the story. Always good to hear about problems and solutions especially issues like this where the symptoms are very different from a standard ICE vehicle. Hopefully back on the road for at least another 50K miles. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-N Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Update: The service department at Tillamook Ford diagnosed a failed fuel pump. They installed a new one and all is working as designed. Was the repair covered under warranty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracks_II Posted March 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Sounds like a great service dept. Were there any diagnostic trouble codes present (should be on the Service Order)? Was it covered under warranty as it appears the fuel tank must be dropped to get to the FP. I'll bet there's 2+ hours labor plus around a $250+ for the FP. For reference (in case others have a similar issue), four DTC's related to the FP and FP module are shown below. For those with ForScan (full version for laptop I believe) or VCM II, you can run a test to turn the FP on and off. There were only two DTC's, P060A and P1A0C. Total labor was $319.09 Parts were $206.81, (pump and sender were $194.32 and the gasket was $12.49). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracks_II Posted March 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Was the repair covered under warranty?Yes, both the labor and the parts. The tow to the dealership was covered under the roadside assistance package. (I do have the extended warranty.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMax Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Thanks for the update on the resolution, Tracks.The more posts like this, the more googling these same codes will later help other owners figure out the same problems with their own c-max.Once mine are out of warranty I plan to do most of the maintenance myself (as on all my cars), so these threads are invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 There were only two DTC's, P060A and P1A0C. Total labor was $319.09 Parts were $206.81, (pump and sender were $194.32 and the gasket was $12.49).DTCs probably no help in diagnosing a bad FP. P060A (PCM) - Internal Control Module Monitoring Processor Performance Description: This DTC sets when an error occurs in the PCM. Possible Causes: Software incompatibility issue Damaged PCM Diagnostic Aids: Verify the PCM is at the latest calibration level. Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All GO to Pinpoint Test QF . P060A (SOBDMC) - Internal Control Module Monitoring Processor Performance Description: This DTC sets when an error occurs in the TCM. Possible Causes: Damaged TCM Diagnostic Aids: Clear the SOBDMC DTCs. Repeat the self-test. If the DTC is retrieved again, install a new TCM. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 307-01, Automatic Transmission. Refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM) , Programming the TRID Block for a Replacement TCM. Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All Refer to the Description, Possible Causes and Diagnostic Aids for the DTC. P1A0C (PCM) - Hybrid Powertrain Control Module - Engine Disabled Description: This is an informational DTC and sets when the failure mode effects management (FMEM) operating strategy that maintains limited vehicle function in the event of the PCM, TCM, battery energy control module (BECM), or a component concern is present. Possible Causes: Air leak between the mass airflow (MAF) sensor and electronic throttle body (ETB) TP sensor not seated properly Powertrain or hybrid electric system Positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system Damaged MAF sensor Damaged TP sensor EVAP purge valve stuck open Diagnostic Aids: Diagnose and repair any EVAP DTCs first. The circuit DTCs can be accompanied by the informational DTCs, and should be diagnosed first. An informational DTC without a circuit DTC may or may not indicate the actual concern and should be diagnosed as a symptom. Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All GO to Pinpoint Test QE . P1A0C (SOBDMC) - Hybrid Powertrain Control Module - Engine Disabled Description: This DTC sets when the PCM indicates an engine fault or the engine does not start within a calibrated maximum time. Possible Causes: Damaged engine Engine oil over the maximum fluid level Automatic transmission fluid over the maximum fluid level Diagnostic Aids: Diagnose and repair any PCM DTCs first. This DTC will set in conjunction with the PCM DTC P1A0C. Under certain circumstances, excessive engine oil or automatic transmission fluid levels can cause the engine to stall. Verify the engine oil and automatic transmission fluid levels are correct. Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All GO to Pinpoint Test QE . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyYoLetsGo Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) I am very thankful I found this post, so I wanted to add my experience with a similar situation to that of tracks_II with my 2013 C-Max SE with about 110,000 miles. A couple of days ago I was traveling down I-95 at about 70 mph on cruise control when the "Stop Safely Now" indication appeared. I was easily able to move to the shoulder, stop, and turn off the car. I checked under the hood to look at fluids and see if anything looked obviously wrong (I am a novice with cars). Everything looked normal, so I started up again and slowly moved down the shoulder at about 15 mph (on electric) with the plan to get to the nearest exit. Not long after, I noticed the hybrid battery charge going down, and then the "Stop Safely Now" indication came on again. Pressing on the gas pedal did nothing, so I obviously came to a stop and turned off the car. I turned it on one more time - this time it seems the gas engine kicked in right away but sounded and felt like it was struggling/puttering. After a few seconds, the "Stop Safely Now" indication returned and the engine stopped. I got it towed to a Ford Dealership that was luckily only about 15 minutes away. At the dealership, they tried to start the car again and the same thing happened with the struggling/puttering and stopping while it was parked. The dealership got to it the following morning and concluded it was the fuel pump. They read two DTCs: P0316 and P1A0C. Said they tested the pump and got no pressure on the gauge. They said that something similar had happened to a C-Max in the past and it took them 5 days to diagnose it. I am still waiting for the Motorcraft Sender and Pump Assembly to arrive from MI since no dealership in FL had one, so I will see if indeed it really is the issue. They quote 4 hours of labor, about $360 for the Pump and Sender emergency shipped, and $13 for a gasket. I will update after I pick up the car. Edited April 20, 2019 by heyYoLetsGo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestead Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 They said that something similar had happened to a C-Max in the past and it took them 5 days to diagnose it. I wonder how much they charged that car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-N Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 I believe this is the first fuel pump issue reported here. Also, the estimate for parts and labor sounds about right these days. I guessing the fuel pump is inside the gas tank which means removing the tank, disconnecting a bunch of hoses and wires, etc..... I'll be interested to hear the results. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyYoLetsGo Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 I believe this is the first fuel pump issue reported here. Also, the estimate for parts and labor sounds about right these days. I guessing the fuel pump is inside the gas tank which means removing the tank, disconnecting a bunch of hoses and wires, etc..... I'll be interested to hear the results. Cheers.I picked up the car yesterday and it has been driving just fine since. Yes, as far as I know the pump is in the gas tank.I ended up paying about $840: $313 for the pump assembly, about $13 for the gasket ($7.31 on parts.ford.com), about $15 for "shop supplies", $440 for labor (4 hours) and tax. They were going to charge me more for the pump if I hadn't showed them the price online and brought up that I paid extra for overnight shipping and still ended up waiting almost a week for the repair. As far as the labor goes, I called two other Ford dealerships and they also quoted me 4 hours to replace the fuel pump.I am hoping to get to another 2-3 years out of this car without too many issues as I do drive a lot each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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