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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Hybrid Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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Traded in my CMax Energi - final stats


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12 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   valkraider

valkraider

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 05:33 PM

I traded in the CMax Energi, here are my final stats. 3 years 11 months of ownership.

Lifetime:
68,409.9 miles total
39,265 EV miles
3659.3 Regen
56.0mpg
91% brake score

 

IMG_5179.jpg


Edited by valkraider, 14 November 2016 - 09:19 PM.

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#2 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 06:17 PM

What did you end up getting? :)

 

Paul



#3 OFFLINE   valkraider

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 09:18 PM

What did you end up getting? :)

 

Paul

2016 Hyundai Sonata Limited Plug-In Hybrid



#4 OFFLINE   scottwood2

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 08:17 AM

I would be interested in hearing a comparison of the new and old.  

 

Why the new car?   Was it just time for something new? 

 

Enjoy


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#5 OFFLINE   valkraider

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 11:13 AM

I would be interested in hearing a comparison of the new and old.

Why the new car? Was it just time for something new?

Enjoy


I've had a terrible experience with Ford (no need to rehash it here, I've made enough posts about it). We were just basically waiting for our payoff to be well enough below book value to make it work. Otherwise it would have been gone last spring.

We liked the CMax car OK - with the exception of garbage MFT crap - and there were only a few small things which were a little concerning but nothing really major or that would impact our opinion of the car.

Some things about the new vs old (not counting for the whole brand new vs 4 year old comparison - I will compare new vs. new - at least as the CMax was when we took delivery 4 years ago)

Note: Our CMax was fully loaded - literally every option available at the time was on the car. So is the Sonata. We paid exactly the same amount for both vehicles, although the Sonata has a bigger battery which nets us a larger tax credit.

1. The infotainment system in the Sonata is way better - but ford knows this so that's why they abandoned Microsoft Auto powered MFT - so this is really no longer as much of a concern unless you have an older Ford which can't be updated.

2. The Sonata has a much much better balance of physical knobs and buttons plus touch-screen. Too much in the Ford was dependent on the touch screen - buttons and knobs are better when driving. To be fair - the CMax was better than the first generation MFT vehicles which were all touch screen - but still the CMax could have used just a few more physical controls.

3. The Sonata handles better. Period.

4. The Sonata is much quieter in every way. Less highway noise, less wind noise, less engine noise (especially when under hard use - the CMax engine can howl when being driven hard).

5. The Sonata heater is *much* more efficient. We have not seen a noticible reduction in range when using the heater - whereas when using the CMax heater range dropped significantly (I stopped using the heater in EV on the CMax, I would just fire up the engine to heat the coil)

6. The Sonata has better range at highway speeds. Possibly due to better aerodynamics - the CMax wasn't the best at EV range over 55mph. The Sonata has exceeded its advertised range twice so far - at full freeway speeds (Oregon freeway speeds are slower than the rest of the country but still faster than 60mph)

7. The back seat of the Sonata is amazing compared to the CMax (and what led us to chose the Sonata over the Volt) - the Sonata back seat is really comfortable and has TONS of leg room. Even with the front seats all the way back there is more leg room in the Sonata back seat than the CMax.

8. The Sonata has a fully adjustable passenger seat. The limited adjustment of the CMax passenger seat was annoying (I was told the CMax passenger seat limits were due to airbag issues and they had to do that because they couldn't get the seat to work with the airbag design without limiting its movement range).

9. The Sonata has a couple things which should also help efficiency: heated steering wheel and ventilated front seats. The heated steering wheel (like heated seats) makes heater use much less urgent (cold steering wheels freeze my fingers). The ventilated seats help reduce AC usage. The Sonata also has some clever HVAC management software which probably influences #5 - they do smart things based on how you're driving, what the weather is like outside, and other factors.

10. There are some gizmos on the CMax which are missing on the Sonata - the Sonata does not have fully automatic rain sensing wipers. The Sonata does not have front parking sensors. The Sonata does not have "self parking" capability (although to be honest we never used that in the CMax except for a party trick to amaze guests). Sonata does not have a power trunk lid. Sonata does not have hill descent mode.

11. 2 main complaints about the Sonata - rear seat does not fold down or have a pass-through to the trunk; and lack of cool colors on the PHEV (they have lots of nice colors for the ICE Sonata - but only 4 plain boring ones in the PHEV).

12. Sonata has a lot of gizmos that we're not available on the CMax in 2012: Adaptive Cruise, Lane Departure, Blind spot detection, Collision avoidance, etc.

13. We haven't tried in snow yet - but in rain we can tell a difference - the CMax has a tendency to spin out in low traction situations - and the Sonata has not yet (driving in the same places on the same streets). I think the CMax center of gravity impacted this - trying to start on an uphill the weight would shift too far rearward and the front wheels break loose.

14. Differences in style - the CMax is really really tall - the Sonata is shorter and a little bit wider. Just differences in style really, not good or bad.

15. I have no comparison yet since the Sonata was new - but the "leather" in the CMax was seriously cracking on the driver's side seat where it gets squished every time you get in or out. Really shouldn't have been that bad for only 4 years old.

16. Hyundai provided a free software update to add Apple Car Play and Android Auto - and it was easy to download and install, and they even recommended to not use the dealerships because dealerships would charge you money. Complete opposite experience than what we had with Ford in this regard.

17. CMax has more and better cubbies all over the car, the Sonata is nicer (more luxurious) but seems to not have as many places to hide junk.

18. This is maybe more of a personal thing than helps others but: the CMax has a plastic seam where two different pieces join together, on the driver's side of the center stack, just behind the trim. I would often lean my right leg against it while on longer trips - and if I was wearing shorts that seam was kind of sharp and it would hurt and leave a mark after a little while. A nit pick for sure - but I never understood why the let that seam be so pointy and abrupt. It wouldn't have been hard to just make it a smoother transition. I may be the only person on the planet who cares though.

19. I miss the pulsating blue ring when charging the car. The Sonata has a single green light on the dash which is functional but not cool.

20. The Sonata LED tail lights and driving lights are way cooler than the CMax bulbs. Ford cheaped out on the CMax lights to save a couple bucks. I would have paid extra for optional LED lights had Ford offered them.
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#6 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 11:14 AM

We just added a Sonata Hybrid Limited to our garage. More of a Fusion competitor, with better highway than city mileage. Ours is still too new to say much more.

 

 

 

... Sonata does not have a power trunk lid. ...

Look in the OM under "Smart Trunk." It's a timing/proximity thing, no leg action. 

Frank


Edited by fbov, 15 November 2016 - 11:22 AM.


#7 OFFLINE   valkraider

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 04:02 PM


Look in the OM under "Smart Trunk." It's a timing/proximity thing, no leg action.
Frank


Yeah, have that set. It just unlocks - doesn't open it. So the trunk is still Manual just no button pushing needed. I still need to set down my stuff on the wet Portland ground. :)

All said - the CMax was a fine vehicle. I would still basically recommend them (or the Fusion) but competition is ramping up.

#8 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 06:20 PM

Thanks for sharing your comments. It is interesting to hear others view points on our CMAX's and others EV. :)  Why didn't you go with the New FFEnergi ? It seems to have all the extras you were looking for.  For me I want a wagon/van hatchback with flat floor to carry big boxes. :)

 

Paul 



#9 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 09:41 PM

10. There are some gizmos on the CMax which are missing on the Sonata - the Sonata does not have fully automatic rain sensing wipers. The Sonata does not have front parking sensors. The Sonata does not have "self parking" capability (although to be honest we never used that in the CMax except for a party trick to amaze guests). Sonata does not have a power trunk lid. Sonata does not have hill descent mode.

 

To be fair, on the "hill descent mode," it isn't needed on the Sonata. The "hill descent mode" is essentially a low gear; since the Sonata has a traditional automatic transmission, you select manual shift mode and downshift. There are advantages and disadvantages to having the automatic transmission vs. the eCVT of the C-Max. This and the better highway fuel economy are the advantages, but a disadvantage is that it is less efficient in city driving.

 

Yeah, have that set. It just unlocks - doesn't open it. So the trunk is still Manual just no button pushing needed. I still need to set down my stuff on the wet Portland ground. :)

All said - the CMax was a fine vehicle. I would still basically recommend them (or the Fusion) but competition is ramping up.

 

From what I know of the trunk, it should open. From what I've read, it has sounded like the tensioner on the trunk release isn't set strongly enough on some Sonatas. You might talk to the dealer and see if they can adjust it for you, so it opens. Otherwise, from what I've seen, it should be relatively simple to adjust the tension so that it will fully open.

 

One additional benefit to the Sonata that you didn't mention, at least if you are going to keep the car for a while, is the lifetime warranty on the HVB -- though that is only needed if you keep the car for over 100,000 miles (and I believe they are expected to last for 300,000 miles).


Edited by raadsel, 15 November 2016 - 09:47 PM.


#10 OFFLINE   scottwood2

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 09:26 AM

Thx Valkraider for the great detailed review.   Sounds like a nice car. 



#11 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 10:27 AM

raadsel "To be fair, on the "hill descent mode," it isn't needed on the Sonata. The "hill descent mode" is essentially a low gear; since the Sonata has a traditional automatic transmission, you select manual shift mode and downshift. There are advantages and disadvantages to having the automatic transmission vs. the eCVT of the C-Max. This and the better highway fuel economy are the advantages, but a disadvantage is that it is less efficient in city driving."

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Grade assist isn't using "Low Gear" to be clear.  From OM "Grade assist provides additional grade braking with a combination of engine motoring and high-voltage battery charging to help maintain vehicle speed when descending a grade.  As the vehicle determines the amount of engine motoring and increasing and decreasing to help maintain your vehicle speed when descending a grade."

_____________________________________

 Grade assist does nothing on level surfaces. :)

_____________________________________

 

Paul


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#12 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 12:15 PM

raadsel "To be fair, on the "hill descent mode," it isn't needed on the Sonata. The "hill descent mode" is essentially a low gear; since the Sonata has a traditional automatic transmission, you select manual shift mode and downshift. There are advantages and disadvantages to having the automatic transmission vs. the eCVT of the C-Max. This and the better highway fuel economy are the advantages, but a disadvantage is that it is less efficient in city driving."

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Grade assist isn't using "Low Gear" to be clear.  From OM "Grade assist provides additional grade braking with a combination of engine motoring and high-voltage battery charging to help maintain vehicle speed when descending a grade.  As the vehicle determines the amount of engine motoring and increasing and decreasing to help maintain your vehicle speed when descending a grade."

_____________________________________

 Grade assist does nothing on level surfaces. :)

_____________________________________

 

Paul

 

I can't agree -- just what do you think "a combination of engine motoring and high-voltage battery charging" really is? Granted, it isn't a low gear because the C-Max doesn't have gears, but it is still adjusting the CVT and using either the electric motor or the ICE to "brake" the car (which maintains the speed) -- just as the Sonata does if you downshift. The hybrid systems will work similarly on both cars; they will attempt to use the electric motor to slow the car, until the HVB is full, at which point they will use the ICE as an engine brake.

 

I'll agree that the C-Max has a little extra programming, in that it attempts to maintain your current speed while traveling down a hill -- because of the variable transmission it can do a good job of adjusting the transmission to attempt to maintain your exact speed. In an automatic transmission, you don't get the same amount of speed control because you are limited to (in the Sonata) the six forward gears (particularly since the Sonata Hybrid lacks a torque converter). 

 

The major difference is that the C-Max has a single button that will attempt to keep your speed automatically, while in the Sonata you must manually downshift to a gear that keeps you at your desired speed. Perhaps I'm just too old (used to changing gears in a car), I just don't see it as that much of an extra feature that the Sonata is lacking.


Edited by raadsel, 16 November 2016 - 12:25 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   homestead

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 12:24 PM

Thanks for the report Valkraider.

Did you use charger a lot in your driving?








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