AgentCMAX Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I was just browsing around on the Internet and found some interesting articles on Active Grille Shutters. This technology is used by Ford in the C-Max and Fusion line-ups, and by other manufacturers to improve aerodynamics and hence, overall MPG. I just wonder in the event of failure, what would the cost of repairs be? Perhaps it's time for me to reconsider that Ford-backed extended warranty/service plan...it may be worth it due to all the high-tech that are in the C-Max!?!?! Anyway, I hope you all find it interesting and educational as I have. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079678_active-shutter-grille-vents-how-they-help-improve-mpg http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2012/10/03/how-active-grille-shutters-work/ http://www.sonceboz.com/en/latest-news/latest-news3.html Riddley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNCGeek Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Cool post, I had totally forgotten about the shutters. I need to go look with a flashlight to see if I can find them even. I hope the most likely failure mode would be open since it would really suck to have them stuck closed in the summer. If you do go with a ESP, the cheapest I found for 7/100k was around $1135 (just as a point of reference). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentCMAX Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Thanks for the price reference CNCGeek. That will come in handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinto Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I found the shutters on mine. I discovered the shutters were in the open position while it was in the garage this morning before backing the car out. Backed the car out of garage and stopped to check if that changed. They were already closed. That would seem to explain why it warms up so quickly on the colder mornings. Seems like a cool feature. From the limited viewing it appears that the radiator is completed shrouded with this housing and the only air flow is with the opening and closing of the shutters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksCMax Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 So how does this work...the opening & closing of the grille shutters? I mean, is it a manual thing, an automatic thing? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) So how does this work...the opening & closing of the grille shutters? I mean, is it a manual thing, an automatic thing? Thanks. Automatic, no doubt. I brought this up specifically with the engineers at the Irvine gathering, see Ford C-Max Irvine Pow-Wow. In summary, there was no clear answer specifically from the enginners as he stated its based on a number of factors programmed into the software including coolant, AC, and speed. This contradicts what was stated in an interview (see here: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1190-online-chat-with-c-max-engineer/ ) where the shutters were labelled "dumb". If you also search this forum, some posters here particulary ptjones, have been also looking into the active shutters and have different thoughts on how they function. Confused, good, welcome to the club ;) Edited March 5, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax NicksCMax 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksCMax Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Automatic, no doubt. I brought this up specifically with the engineers at the Irvine gathering, see Ford C-Max Irvine Pow-Wow. In summary, there was no clear answer specifically from the enginners as he stated its based on a number of factors programmed into the software including coolant, AC, and speed. This contradicts what was stated in an interview (see here: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1190-online-chat-with-c-max-engineer/ ) where the shutters were labelled "dumb". If you also search this forum, some posters here particulary ptjones, have been also looking into the active shutters and have different thoughts on how they function. Confused, good, welcome to the club ;) Thanks Jus-A-Max... I guess I'll never know if they close when I'm driving...maybe someone in front of me can tell :hysterical: I'll have to try the backing out of the garage trick on a cold (55 degree) CA morning. You would think they'd post video on this; they do for other features. I'm going to read the link you sent, the interview; much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksCMax Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hey, btw, I see you tinted your windows (correct?) what kind of tint did you do? Looks slick! :shift: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) You know, it came with the car when I bought it from Galpin Ford. What happens is that Galpin Auto Sports, which is their "customization" arm of the company will take some cars, add a tint to it, might do some black wheels and all kinds of customization including some very customizaed leather seats as well (which I saw in their Fusion Titanium). Sure they add it to the price but in the end, I literally got this for free as part of the package. I hated the tint (or the idea of paying for it) at the start but I've changed my mind, it's a must-have now imo. Really adds to the look of the car as well, imo. PM me if you want me to research this, I am good friends with the manager there and it's a minute question that I can ask. Edited March 5, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksCMax Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Thanks, good to know. I like the tint for looks but also, come summer, with all these windows its gonna get warm in there on the leather! Looking forward to seeing if my grilles shut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Thanks, good to know. I like the tint for looks but also, come summer, with all these windows its gonna get warm in there on the leather! Looking forward to seeing if my grilles shut!Oh trust me, it does get hot - we just had a spell of 80+ temps last week, AC was on and even had it on while waiting for my client. I think I made a mistake with the black interior but hey, it is what it is and now way would I ever trade my Maxine for another one, she is just the sweetest car I have owned and driven :) PS If you look around and search ptjones' threads, he did stick a camera in there - be worth reading if you haven't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hey, btw, I see you tinted your windows (correct?) what kind of tint did you do? Looks slick! :shift:Nick, thats the Lumar tint that GAS installed in my CMax. Its sweet :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Thanks, good to know. I like the tint for looks but also, come summer, with all these windows its gonna get warm in there on the leather! Looking forward to seeing if my grilles shut!From my testing with a WebCam and Laptop they don't open until 190deg.F and are fully open at 213deg.F. IMO the shutters primary function is temp control, we all know how sensitive our CMAX's are to outside temps for MPG's and this is a reasonable way to deal with it. Unfortunately they don't work as good as intended. That is why my Grill Covers work better by sealing off front to make it more aerodynamic, 2mpg's at 70mph and heat the ICE about twice as fast, saving mpg's. In FORD CMAX brochure: " The standard Active Grille Shutters on the C-MAX help to reduce air resistance and increase fuel efficiency. When the Active Grille Shutters are fully closed, vehicle aerodynamics are improved by roughly 5 percent.""Increased fuel efficiency" is heating up faster and retaining heat. Very ambiguous because aerodynamic improvements don't really start until 45mph so below that speed it's all about heat. And above 45mph if they are open you lose your aero improvement. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksCMax Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Great insight, both of you...I think I should invest in the covers from ptjones - when installed do they leave a mark if removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Great insight, both of you...I think I should invest in the covers from ptjones - when installed do they leave a mark if removed?I have 12k on the covers and nothing noticeable on grill but a little bit on back of cover . Not sure if that's from taking them off and on a hundred times from my testing or movement on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksCMax Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I have 12k on the covers and nothing noticeable on grill but a little bit on back of cover . Not sure if that's from taking them off and on a hundred times from my testing or movement on the car. What do you mean you have 12k on the covers? And, how can I buy one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) What do you mean you have 12k on the covers? And, how can I buy one?12,000miles since I put them on. This should answer your questions. Edited March 7, 2013 by ptjones colea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HannahWCU Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 You have 12,000 miles on you CMax????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 You have 12,000 miles on you CMax?????15,200mi since 10/18/12. Two trips west to San Fran and Phoenix for 9,000mi. I believe I have the highest mileage car on Fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HannahWCU Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Well,I guess you would be the expert then! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I hope I've learned something and pass it along to others. There is a lot of miss information out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Can you explain Active Grille Shutters? The big grille opening at the front -- if you have no choice, it's got to be fully open all the time to suit the requirements for when you need maximum cooling, which is wide open throttle, going uphill, and in hot weather. But most of the time -- 90 percent of the time -- you can shut them down because the car isn't demanding so much cooling. You close the grille shutters and you'll get about 0.10 Cd aero improvement. The air instead of going through the engine gets blocked and goes over the car which is a much better place to send it.Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1209_2013_ford_fusion_first_test/viewall.html#ixzz2Mz1knY8F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Yes, blocking off air flow through the grill significantly affects Cd. The 0.10 Cd change is in line (probably rounded up a little) with the maximum possible reduction. The chart below is representative of the components of drag for a car with a Cd around 0.3. About 1/3 of drag is due to air flowing through the radiator, coolers, engine compartment, and exiting underneath the car. So, if you could eliminate this component of drag you'd be at the 0.10 reduction. I have done calculations for my C-Max based on my FE gain when using ptjones' grill covers at 70 mph. I attribute virtually all of this gain to aerodynamics. My 6.7% increase in FE equates to a reduction in Cd of about 8.5%. The C-Max has a Cd of 0.30. So, that 8.5% would be a reduction in Cd of 0.0265 (a little over 25% of the Ford engineers 0.1 Cd possible reduction. Remember that the top grill on the C-Max is open for intake air and the bottom and center grill covers likely do not block 100% of the air. So, I believe that my results using the grill covers are reasonable. Also, when I ran the tests without grill cover, it's likely that the shutters were not completely open. The reason I believe that my FE gain was virtually all due to aerodynamics is that I recorded coolant temperatures during my testing of the grill cover. The table below shows the coolant temperature data with ambient temperature of 27*F at 70 mph. Based on the temperatures which ptjones observed the shutters opening, my shutters were likely open to some extent on the test runs. My car was likely operating within the optimal temperature range. I do plan to run more tests at higher ambient temperatures and because I ran the tests with only 700 miles on the car (not broken in yet). JAZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I would also add that the grill covers will reduce aerodynamic drag at any speeds provided that the shutters would otherwise be open letting air into the engine bay. In addition, there's likely a reduction in drag even if the shutters are closed because the shutters are recessed into the front end likely producing less laminar air flow than the grill covers mounted on the outer surface of the grills. The chart below is a graphical representation of the estimated FE benefits based on my observed tests. In other words, I adjusted Cd and hence the curve to achieve the % reduction in FE that I observed at 70 mph assuming that there is a 1:1 relationship of fuel burned to power requirements. I wouldn't get hung up on the actual data. The point is that a reduction in Cd provides benefits at all speeds. You don't have to drive 70 mph to get a FE benefit from a reduction in aerodynamics drag when using the grill shutters. It would be nice if the shutters were not "dumb". But, evidently Ford is taking a conservative approach by operating the shutters on coolant temperature as observed by ptjones. So, I'll apply my logic with data any manually "adjust" the air flow through the grills in a less conservative approach and thus increase FE. :) ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I would also add that the grill covers will reduce aerodynamic drag at any speeds provided that the shutters would otherwise be open letting air into the engine bay. In addition, there's likely a reduction in drag even if the shutters are closed because the shutters are recessed into the front end likely producing less laminar air flow than the grill covers mounted on the outer surface of the grills. The chart below is a graphical representation of the estimated FE benefits based on my observed tests. In other words, I adjusted Cd and hence the curve to achieve the % reduction in FE that I observed at 70 mph assuming that there is a 1:1 relationship of fuel burned to power requirements. I wouldn't get hung up on the actual data. The point is that a reduction in Cd provides benefits at all speeds. You don't have to drive 70 mph to get a FE benefit from a reduction in aerodynamics drag when using the grill shutters. It would be nice if the shutters were not "dumb". But, evidently Ford is taking a conservative approach by operating the shutters on coolant temperature as observed by ptjones. So, I'll apply my logic with data any manually "adjust" the air flow through the grills in a less conservative approach and thus increase FE. :) That's a fairly significant impact at 70 mph. Those who primarily drive highway miles will see a very quick payback. Have you noted any impact on inverter temps when using the covers at higher speeds especially when EV assist is active on the highway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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