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15 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   rfaunce

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:53 PM

The start button operates erratically on my 16 C-max. About a third of the time when I push it in with my foot on the brake pedal the dash energizes but when I put it in gear it doesn't move. I then put it back in park, push the button again and it is OK. Of course it didn't happen when I brought it into the dealership and the scan was negative. I have experimened with different pressure on the brake pedal and on the button but it makes no difference. Any ideas?







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#2 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:36 PM

So, the ready to drive message is lit on the dash but the car won't move when shifted to D and nothing changes on the dash displays?  If yes, then I'd say the issue is with the gear shift mechanism / sensors.  I'll see what I can find in the service manual as to logic / hardware.  

 

Are you aware of ForScan? You can monitor real time data and likely be able to see something abnormal when the issue occurs which should point to the potential issue.  A smartphone and about $25 for an ELM327 OBDII interface module and ForScan App is IMO worth it.



#3 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 03:43 AM

The start button operates erratically on my 16 C-max. About a third of the time when I push it in with my foot on the brake pedal the dash energizes but when I put it in gear it doesn't move. I then put it back in park, push the button again and it is OK. Of course it didn't happen when I brought it into the dealership and the scan was negative. I have experimened with different pressure on the brake pedal and on the button but it makes no difference. Any ideas?

 

You might also consider taking a video with your phone the next time it happens. Show that the "Drive" light is lit on the dash, that you've shifted into D, emergency brake is off, but that the car doesn't move. Then, while still recording, turn the car off, restart it, and show that you can now drive away. You'll then have it so the dealer can see what is happening, even if you can't reproduce it while you are there.



#4 OFFLINE   AZgman

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 07:57 AM

Check to be sure that the green "ready to drive" light is on after you step on the brake and push the start button. If not, you may have not pressed hard enough on the brake or did not allow enough time between when you stepped on the brake and then pushed the start button. I have had this happen to me in the first week or so of ownership as I was not used to the startup sequence.



#5 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 08:08 AM

From the manual, the Instrument Panel Cluster module gets hardwired data from the shift selector.  So, there would likely be no DTC (and no stored DTCs) if the "no move" issue is related to the shifter or cable to the transmission. 

 

I wonder if ICE will start when the "no move" condition occurs.  If you push and hold the accelerator to the floor, put your foot on the brake and push the start button, ICE will start.  If ICE doesn't start, something is likely wrong with the IPC  and perhaps the PCM is not getting proper data from the IPC and not allowing the TCM to "move" the car even though it is shifted to D.  You would have to do this every time you start the car to see if ICE starts.  If ICE starts, shift to D and see if the car moves every time you start ICE.  If ICE doesn't start, also shift to D and see if the car moves. 

 

IMO, a more likely cause is something in the shifter to the transmission.  The cable that runs from the shifter to the transmission can be adjusted.  One other thing to try is to shift to L from D when the no move condition occurs.  Perhaps the car will now move and thus would likely indicate the issue is in the shifter / cable system. 


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 11 February 2017 - 01:03 PM.

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#6 OFFLINE   joshg678

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 10:38 AM

I've had a couple time on my 16 where the ready to drive doesn't come on and it was because I didn't have the brake pressed enough to register. I just pushed more and hit the button again and it was fine.

I did have one time where I thought it wasn't working but I was down a hill a bit and the wheel was turned to blocking the dash. Turns out you have to give the throttle a big enough push to overcome the anti rollback brakes feature. In that moment I had forgotten that detail and panicked.

#7 OFFLINE   Henrysue

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 08:14 PM

This happens to me all the time. I feel like I'm stepping hard enough on the brake, but must not be because the ready to drive light doesn't come on. I don't drive my car very often and I feel that maybe I haven't got used to the pressure required. It usually doesn't happen in my garage, just when I'm out running errands. Although it concerns me, sometimes I go 2-3 weeks between driving it (i have a commuter car that I'm trying to wear out) and I think it's user error.

#8 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:01 AM

I've had an issue where the car flakes out with a check engine light about 2 times a year when I go to start it, I always seem to be in a hurry when it does this, like I am moving the brake too fast, if I turn it back off and try again it always starts.  Seems like one of those annoying software glitches.  This must be different than your problem though since I don't think mine ever gets to "Ready" when it does that.

 

It used to happen more frequently, I think one of the software updates may have influenced the behavior.

 

We won't talk about the MFT still staying on and playing a song after I put it in park, switch off the car, open the driver door, close the door and lock the car..those are the type of glitches that drive programmers crazy because you might never replicate the actual problem.  It's easier to just turn it back on and off again to get the "radio" to stop.


Edited by jestevens, 13 February 2017 - 07:01 AM.


#9 OFFLINE   Telerisk

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 01:54 PM

Referring to the START BUTTON......  I love the feature and I have not experienced the issues as described here with my 2016 C-Max.  What I have experienced is a thud like sound when I press the Start Button coming from the right side of the rear Compartment area which I believe Houses the Batteries.  I have owned the C-Max 10 months and only started to hear the Noise the last 2 months.  I have another friend who has a C-Max; their uses the Key....and as mine was prior to a few months back; my friends C-Max powers on without any noise.

 

Is this normal?  Or should the Start be totally Silent.....?  I also hear this same sound...so it is either the same cause/or just a similar Noise...when I start up from a stopped position and just as the Elec Engine is handing off to the Gas Engine...the same/similar Noise from exactly the same area.....rear compartment, Right side.  I am guessing there is some sort of solenoid/switch that directs Power flow from the battery to the Elec engine and components and charging mode back to the Battery...  Tried to fine a Picture of the area and have been unable to fine one on the Internet.  



#10 OFFLINE   AZgman

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 03:04 PM

The battery compartment vents out through the back of the cabin and there is a fan and some switch gear in there so I can see where noise could emanate from that location. I have not noticed the noise you describe in my '16 hybrid. I can only hear the engine start when transferring from EV to ICE mode.



#11 OFFLINE   Telerisk

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 04:55 PM

To Clarify; when you hear the Elec Engine hand off to the gas engine....what you hear is from the front engine compartment; not the rear as I described?  I don't feel or hear anything from the engine compartment....its quiet up front and smooth when the change takes place.  Wish there was a Picture available of the Rear battery area exposed so they Batteries and components parts could be seen.  



#12 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 09:10 AM

The only noise I hear from the back when I start the car is the mechanical noise of the relays closing to connect the HVB to the rest of the car.  The hybrid system is designed so that when the car is "off" the hybrid battery pack is disconnected as a safety measure.  When you start the car the computer uses low voltage battery current to close some relays that connect the high voltage battery pack to the rest of the car.

 

(Even though it's supposed to be disconnected I would still always treat the orange wires as though they are energized anyway.)

 

That's more of a click or clack noise though.  A "thud" sounds more like feedback from the stereo?  If you have the motorized back hatch there's also a little speaker built in back there to put out a "meep" sound whenever the door is opening or closing.


Edited by jestevens, 15 February 2017 - 09:11 AM.


#13 OFFLINE   BIG ROCCO

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:42 PM

This happens to me all the time. I feel like I'm stepping hard enough on the brake, but must not be because the ready to drive light doesn't come on. I don't drive my car very often and I feel that maybe I haven't got used to the pressure required. It usually doesn't happen in my garage, just when I'm out running errands. Although it concerns me, sometimes I go 2-3 weeks between driving it (i have a commuter car that I'm trying to wear out) and I think it's user error.

Happens to me all the time on our '15, too.  It did not happen on our '13.  You really have to step on the brake pedal kind of hard.  Maybe, the brake switch could be adjusted?  Maybe they made the brake switch not go on so soon deliberately, so very slight braking to max out regen will not trigger the brake light?  Kind of annoying - I might look into it someday.



#14 OFFLINE   rfaunce

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 11:41 AM

Thanks Plus 3 Golfer.  The green ready light does not come on when it will not start.  I will try shifting the transmission to see if that works.  A cable out of adjustment would be a nice solution.



#15 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 11:08 AM

Thanks Plus 3 Golfer.  The green ready light does not come on when it will not start.  I will try shifting the transmission to see if that works.  A cable out of adjustment would be a nice solution.

Since the ready message doesn't come on but the car turns "on" (like accessory mode with keyed ignition), I believe you should get a message to "push brake" to start the car if the brake pedal sensor would be malfunctioning (same message one gets when the brake pedal is not pushed).   Do you get any messages? If not, then maybe (although I don't know the algorithm behind the "ready to drive"), the IPC is not receiving appropriate data from other modules over the CAN to illuminate the ready to drive since the issue might be data / components associated with other modules like the TCM.

 

Also, I don't recall anyone reporting that their brake pedal sensor failed. 

 

Maybe you can get a loaner from Ford and leave your car at the dealer and have them drive it for several days to duplicate the problem as if the issue happens about 1/3 of the time, then it should happen in several days of the dealer driving the car.


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 26 February 2017 - 12:58 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:53 AM

FYI, I had some time to look at the Service manual.  

 

"Brake Pedal Position (BPP) Switch

The BPP switch is a normally open switch that, when closed, sends a signal to the PCM when the brake pedal is applied. The PCM strategy uses this signal input to aid the PCM in determining the correct function and operation of the vehicle cruise control, the electronic throttle control (ETC), and the transmission and regenerative braking systems. The BPP switch is hardwired to the PCM and supplies positive battery voltage when the brake pedal is applied. When the brake pedal is released, the BPP switch opens and no battery voltage input is sent to the PCM." 

 

 

"Brake Pedal Travel Sensor

The brake pedal travel sensor (also known as the brake pedal angle sensor) is a Hall-Effect device used by the ABS module to monitor the speed of application and the direction of travel of the brake pedal. The sensor contains 2 opposing sensors that send the information directly to the ABS module. Four circuits connect the brake pedal travel sensor to the ABS module; one circuit is for the 5 volt sensor supply, one circuit is for sensor ground and the other 2 circuits are for sensor output. The sensor supplies a PWM output to the ABS module." 

 

The Ready to Drive is initiated by the TCM.

 

"Power Up Sequence

The TCM conducts a power up sequence every time the ignition is turned from the OFF to the START position, if the gear selector is in PARK or NEUTRAL. During the power up sequence the TCM:

  • initializes and begins controller area network (CAN) communications with the PCM and the BECM.
  • requests the BECM to close the high voltage contactors.
  • illuminates the green ready indicator indicating the vehicle is ready to drive in electric, gasoline, or a combination of electric and gasoline modes.
  • if required, requests the PCM to start the internal combustion engine. The internal combustion engine will not start if the gear selector is in NEUTRAL. The internal combustion engine starts if it is required for cabin heating, windshield defrost or the outside temperatures are low. The internal combustion engine also starts if the high voltage battery charge is low.

If a concern is detected during the power up sequence, the TCM may initiate LOS mode and store a DTC." 


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 01 March 2017 - 05:24 PM.







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