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Guest Message by DevFuse

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2013 C-Max SEL has turned out to be complete DUD.


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11 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Jon

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 02:45 PM

It's been years since I posted here last, but I just wanted to "vent." Want to find out if anyone has had similar experiences to mine and what recourse you might have taken. 

 

I bought my car new from a Ford dealer in Los Angeles. You all may be aware of the numerous national recalls associated with the 2013 C-Max...maybe 10 or more. I lost count, but I've taken care of all the recalls as soon as they became known. I use two Ford dealers including the one I purchased the vehicle from. 

 

In addition to all of the recalls I've had 2 on-going problems that the dealer's just can't fix or refuse to acknowledge:

 

1- A/C does not work properly in hot weather and for extended driving it eventually stops blowing all together.

 

2- A "knocking" sound underneath the car when braking at about 30 or 40 MPH. First noticed this maybe after 1.5 years. 

 

Every time I take the car in for service I bring these problems to their attention and each time they say that they can not replicate the problems and thus can not help me. I've even taken a service manager out on a hot day with the A/C set to 68 degrees where it's obviously not blowing close to 68...maybe more like 75 F, and the manager just says it feels okay to him. And he said I "might" hear that knocking noise, I'll have the technicians check out both problems. And they always come back saying they can't replicate the problems. Sorry. 

 

So I just returned from vacation driving for about 4 hours. Starting outside temperature was about 80 degrees and it got as hot as 93 degrees out on the desert. As usual, even from the beginning, the 68 F A/C feels more like 75 in the car...not the kind of cold I get from my other cars. However, after about 2 hours of driving and at around 93 degrees the A/C really starts blowing hot...more like 80F or more. And then it just stop blowing air altogether. 

 

Now here's the ironic part. When I got home I found a letter in the mail from a law firm.

 

"It has come to our attention that some owners of the 2013 Ford C-Max vehicles may have experienced various concerns with their vehicles including concerns with: (1) the transmission, such as a thumping/rubbing or grinding noise from the transmission." 

Hmmm....could this be the knocking sound I keep hearing? 

 

(2) was check engine system, (3) was MIL/Malfunction Indicator Lamp and (4) was the Door Latch, none of which have been a problem for me. And the letter said nothing about A/C problems. :(

 

The letter stated that "You have legal rights under the California Lemon Law" and asks to contact them "for a free, no-obligation consultation."

 

This letter doesn't read like a Class Action suit, and I'm not inclined to call them, but I would like to hear from anyone else who might have experienced any of these problems or have some suggestions that might be helpful to me.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 









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#2 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:18 PM

Read the attachment "thumping".

Attached File  Thumping (1).pdf   385.58KB   53 downloads


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#3 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:24 PM

With respect to the AC, did the dealer run the normal diagnostic checks?

 

 Sounds to me like the evaporator may be icing up.  There are a number of potential causes.  Try this: get a thermometer.  Start the car and turn the AC on maximun.  Measure the temperature out of one of the dash outlets.  After a minute or so, the temperature should be less than 50F and likely lower.  I'll look up what temp you should expect.

 

See this post for temperature out the center vent.


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 13 August 2017 - 03:36 PM.

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#4 OFFLINE   Jon

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:40 PM

Read the attachment "thumping".

attachicon.gifThumping (1).pdf

Awesome! Thank you. I will forward this to my Service Manager with a request to fix it.



#5 OFFLINE   Jon

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:42 PM

With respect to the AC, did the dealer run the normal diagnostic checks?

 

 Sounds to me like the evaporator may be icing up.  There are a number of potential causes.  Try this: get a thermometer.  Start the car and turn the AC on maximun.  Measure the temperature out of one of the dash outlets.  After a minute or so, the temperature should be less than 50F and likely lower.  I'll look up what temp you should expect.

 

See this post for temperature out the center vent.

 

Thank you. I will bring this up when I take the car in for transmission work. 



#6 OFFLINE   Jon

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:46 PM

With respect to the AC, did the dealer run the normal diagnostic checks?

 

 Sounds to me like the evaporator may be icing up.  There are a number of potential causes.  Try this: get a thermometer.  Start the car and turn the AC on maximun.  Measure the temperature out of one of the dash outlets.  After a minute or so, the temperature should be less than 50F and likely lower.  I'll look up what temp you should expect.

 

See this post for temperature out the center vent.

I don't know which tests the Dealers have done to check the AC. Is there one in particular I should request? 

 

I checked the temperature per your instructions. Car was sitting outside and temp. was about 82 degrees. After turning AC to Maximum / LO LO, in about a minute or two the temperature was reading 43 degrees. So maybe it's working as to be expected, at least initially? 

 

Do you know if there's any way the Dealership can test for the evaporator icing up without driving it for 2 hours in 90+ degree temperatures? 



#7 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:04 AM

So, your refrigerant charge is likely okay. One would think that the dealer did check the charge pressures when running.   No, I  don't know what to check other than the resistance values of the sensors especially the evaporator core temperature sensor. The best thing to do would be to drive to the dealer when this happens and leave car running so the the SA / tech can see what is happening when it happens  Do you notice the issue to happen more frequently orquicker timewise when you have higher humidity?   Are you covered under a Ford extended warranty for the AC?  If you are, you may be able to open a case with Ford.  I don't know what rights the customer has under extended warranties to get a problem like this fixed.

 

The evaporator core (under the dash) removes water vapor from the air.  What is suppose to happen is that when the air across the evaporator core  reaches a temperature just above freezing, the compressor is turned off and cycled such that the water being removed doesn't freeze on the coils of the evaporator core.  If the sensor is faulty, ice can build up on the coils and reduce the cooling capacity.  Thus, the temp of the air coming out of the vents will rise and air flow will likely be reduced.  Eventually, ICE can virtually block all the air flowing through the core or enough such that the AC system could shut down or operate at significantly reduced cooling capacity due to the refrigerant pressure not being proper. I would think there should be Diagnostic Trouble Codes when this happens.  But since this is not a critical system, the DTCs may be cleared and not be saved once the ICE melts and the AC system starts to operate properly.

 

I don't know whether you are aware of the ForScan App for smartphones for monitoring Ford data - IMO, a bargain for about $30 including an OBDII adapter.   I will check the data available to see what AC system modules data is available for monitoring like the evaporator core temperature.   


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 14 August 2017 - 05:14 AM.

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#8 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 08:46 AM

I believe I have the same problem with A/C freezing up, I use recirculate and when cold air starts to tapper off I'll turn off A/C till it starts warming up. This evaporates ice off coils and then turn A/C back on.  It's a little annoying, but works and I tell myself i'm getting better  gas mileage. :)  A while back I talked to a CMAX CAB Maintenance Supervisor, they had this problem in Phoenix and FORD was never ever able to completely  solve the problem for them. :sad:  That was a few years ago so maybe they solved it now.

 

Paul


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#9 OFFLINE   BIG ROCCO

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 07:45 PM

I was thinking it could be overcharge or moisture in the system, and i found this article that spells out the causes and effects better than i could:

 

http://www.tirebusin...mplate=printart



#10 OFFLINE   rjam

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 07:17 PM

There is a tsb concerning the air freezing up when the air has been on an hour or so. Just took it with a copy of the tsb I found on line that said the problem could not be duplicated but fix it. Then gave the steps. Had mine fixed. Works great now. The TSB is 14-0220. Sorry I dont have a copy. Good luck.

#11 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 08:41 PM

There is a tsb concerning the air freezing up when the air has been on an hour or so. Just took it with a copy of the tsb I found on line that said the problem could not be duplicated but fix it. Then gave the steps. Had mine fixed. Works great now. The TSB is 14-0220. Sorry I dont have a copy. Good luck.

That TSB will only be performed if the car is under warranty at no cost.  It's likely the temperature sensor which gets replaced in the TSB.  It's a $12 part and takes less than 5 minutes to replace.  If one pays for this service under the TSB which also requires replacement of refrigerant it is likely several $100.

 

OP see this thread and diagrams of how to replace the sensor.


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#12 OFFLINE   Noah Harbinger

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 10:44 PM

I was just wondering about this. I've only had the AC cut out twice, but I really don't use it that much except when I have passengers - I like the feel of wind. The first time AC cut out and never came back on, it stayed off until after I stopped and got moving again. The second time, I turned off the AC for a while thinking its controllers needed to 'reset', and about 10 minutes later it came back on. 








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