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A7 Chip Navagation problem and Ford's interpretation of ESP

Navigation ESP

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10 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   David

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:01 PM

This Deals with the Ford Nav A7 Chip problem of improperly locating the position of your vehicle on the map and Ford's Interpretation of the ESP warranty coverage for the Nav system.  This happened on my 2014 C-Max Hybrid.  In 2016 I bought the Nav SD upgrade card referred to as the A7 chip for $150.  It seemed to be working but then in July of 2017 it started locating my car off to the right of its actual position by maybe 100feet.  It showed me driving through ponds and on road parallel to my car.  If I had a destination set it would see me on the wrong road and ask me to take turns to get back to the programed route even though I was already on the right road.  I found several other accounts on the Ford forums, though they were all 2013 models and older so far.  The overall results from the forams seemed to be the GPS module could be bad and need replacing.  I have the ESP coverage so I though I would be set.  I brought it to the dealership where they were able to duplicate the problem (as it was an intermittent problem) and told me they had found a problem with the A7 chip syncing up with the system.  They mentioned they had just had an Explorer in recently with the same problem.

      They ended up reprograming the Nav card and the GPS unit and charged me $322.50 because Ford considers it an upgrade and is not covered under the ESP.  I asked about contesting this and they told me to contact Ford Customer service.  I got in contact with the Ford Customer Relationship Center and explained, they said they would reach out to the dealership and I should get an email in 2 Business days.  3 Business days later no email.  Called back and they said there was a problem with the case and told me a member of the customer care team would contact me within the next two business days.

     A Martin Cruse called me.  He apologized fro my problem with the nav system but regretted to inform me that "Ford Corporation would not reimburse this issue" as it was considered an upgrade and not covered under warranty.  I told him I paid $150 for the Ford recommended upgrade SD card and I found that the system required the reprograming to make it work properly so I could not see how it could be considered an upgrade.  How could he justify this added expense just to make it work.  His mantra and answer to most of my questions was the "Ford corporation will not reimburse you for this issue".  I mentioned that this meant my Nav upgrade went from $150 to $472.50 and felt that was unreasonable.  I got his mantra as a response.  I told him that to me it seemed that ford was simply looking for any excuse or technicality for not honoring their ESP and that I was going to have to give serious consideration to purchasing it in the future.  Same Mantra.  He then said he could offer in compensation a 3 year maintenance protection plan.  I never bothered to find out if this was free or discounted as in my mind this was just another way to get my car in to them so they could find other technicalities and excuses to get more money.  He said that was fine I did not have to accept this offer.  I had started out calm but by this point not so much.  He then asked me if there was anything else he could assist me with, I told him he had not provided me any assistance to begin with.  He then thanked me for being a Ford customer which in my mind sounded more like thanks for giving us your money, we appreciate that, you not so much.

     My wife and I have been loyal Ford customers for over 30 years and we have bought 7 new cars from them.  We were always proud of the fact that Ford did not take taxpayers money from the big automotive bail out several years ago.  We tend to buy a car about every 5 years and have added the ESP from when we could afford to.  But I have to say Ford has let us down.  I warn anyone considering the Navigation upgrade to think twice as it's $150 cost from ford could turn into considerably more.  It is my hope that someone in Ford Corporation actually monitors this who really does care about return customers and will act on it.  I will be sending a letter to Ford if I can figure out who would be best to send it to.  I have other details about the SD card , who writes the program and who makes it all subcontracted by ford if anyone wants it.


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#2 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:11 PM

Nowhere could I find that the ESP covers software upgrades to the navigation.  Below is what Ford says about the A8 card.  I assume Ford said the same about the A7.  Some e-bay sellers indicate that the software may need updated for the A7 chip.

 

"Your vehicle may require a software update prior to installing this update. 

If your software version is greater than or equal to 12285, this update is compatible. 
If your software version is 10337, 11038, 11063, 11081, 11134, 12023, 12156 – please visit owner.ford.com or owner.lincoln.com to update your SYNC software. 
If your software version is 10212, 10308, or 12058 – your vehicle requires a software update from a dealer."



#3 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:27 PM

This Deals with the Ford Nav A7 Chip problem of improperly locating the position of your vehicle on the map and Ford's Interpretation of the ESP warranty coverage for the Nav system.  This happened on my 2014 C-Max Hybrid.  In 2016 I bought the Nav SD upgrade card referred to as the A7 chip for $150.  It seemed to be working but then in July of 2017 it started locating my car off to the right of its actual position by maybe 100feet.  It showed me driving through ponds and on road parallel to my car.  If I had a destination set it would see me on the wrong road and ask me to take turns to get back to the programed route even though I was already on the right road.  I found several other accounts on the Ford forums, though they were all 2013 models and older so far.  The overall results from the forams seemed to be the GPS module could be bad and need replacing.  I have the ESP coverage so I though I would be set.  I brought it to the dealership where they were able to duplicate the problem (as it was an intermittent problem) and told me they had found a problem with the A7 chip syncing up with the system.  They mentioned they had just had an Explorer in recently with the same problem.

      They ended up reprograming the Nav card and the GPS unit and charged me $322.50 because Ford considers it an upgrade and is not covered under the ESP.  I asked about contesting this and they told me to contact Ford Customer service.  I got in contact with the Ford Customer Relationship Center and explained, they said they would reach out to the dealership and I should get an email in 2 Business days.  3 Business days later no email.  Called back and they said there was a problem with the case and told me a member of the customer care team would contact me within the next two business days.

     A Martin Cruse called me.  He apologized fro my problem with the nav system but regretted to inform me that "Ford Corporation would not reimburse this issue" as it was considered an upgrade and not covered under warranty.  I told him I paid $150 for the Ford recommended upgrade SD card and I found that the system required the reprograming to make it work properly so I could not see how it could be considered an upgrade.  How could he justify this added expense just to make it work.  His mantra and answer to most of my questions was the "Ford corporation will not reimburse you for this issue".  I mentioned that this meant my Nav upgrade went from $150 to $472.50 and felt that was unreasonable.  I got his mantra as a response.  I told him that to me it seemed that ford was simply looking for any excuse or technicality for not honoring their ESP and that I was going to have to give serious consideration to purchasing it in the future.  Same Mantra.  He then said he could offer in compensation a 3 year maintenance protection plan.  I never bothered to find out if this was free or discounted as in my mind this was just another way to get my car in to them so they could find other technicalities and excuses to get more money.  He said that was fine I did not have to accept this offer.  I had started out calm but by this point not so much.  He then asked me if there was anything else he could assist me with, I told him he had not provided me any assistance to begin with.  He then thanked me for being a Ford customer which in my mind sounded more like thanks for giving us your money, we appreciate that, you not so much.

     My wife and I have been loyal Ford customers for over 30 years and we have bought 7 new cars from them.  We were always proud of the fact that Ford did not take taxpayers money from the big automotive bail out several years ago.  We tend to buy a car about every 5 years and have added the ESP from when we could afford to.  But I have to say Ford has let us down.  I warn anyone considering the Navigation upgrade to think twice as it's $150 cost from ford could turn into considerably more.  It is my hope that someone in Ford Corporation actually monitors this who really does care about return customers and will act on it.  I will be sending a letter to Ford if I can figure out who would be best to send it to.  I have other details about the SD card , who writes the program and who makes it all subcontracted by ford if anyone wants it.

 

As I recall, when the dealer reprogrammed software under warranty the thing I sign that Ford pays for was a lot less that what you paid.  I thought it was like 50 bucks to upgrade different things.  

 

It seems to me that the Ford rep's job is to hold the idea they are not paying and not admit to it being just wrong.

 

You totally have my sympathy.



#4 OFFLINE   David

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:13 PM

When I ordered the A7 Chip upgrade there were no such warnings in the email offer about possibly needing a software upgrade.  My guess is they now actually do know there was a problem with the A7 chip and rather than addressing the problem are smartening up and putting this little discloser on the newer upgrade.  However, considering the combined cost of the potential new upgrade and reprograming(software update) it would be ridiculously expensive for what you are getting.


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#5 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 06:17 AM

So the problem is with the A7 map data?  Or maybe with the routines that interpret the data?  I have heard people complaining about the GPS calibration independent of getting a map upgrade, maybe those were the folks who already had the A7 map included at the factory before they realized there was an issue.


Edited by jestevens, 16 August 2017 - 06:18 AM.


#6 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:21 AM

I have the A7 in my 2013 C-Max and have had no issues. I'm curious what update was needed, unless it was the last 2nd gen MFT update that did not show up for many of us to upgrade to version 3.8. It seems, to me, that Ford should be paying for this either way. Either the fault was the GPS issue others have had, and is unrelated to the A7 card or it seems like this is an issue where he likely never had the option to upgrade to v 3.8 -- and those who did not have that option were supposed to be able to get their Ford dealer to install it for free.


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#7 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:49 AM

http://fordcmaxhybri...rd-service-rep/

 

Maybe the "official ford service rep" can help.



#8 OFFLINE   nsteblay

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 04:35 AM

The Microsoft partnership on the old Sync has been a disaster for Ford.  A worthless piece of you know what in my opinion.  I gave up on it in my 2013 and installed a Garmin GPS.  My 2016 has Sync 3 which has been fantastic.  


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#9 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:03 AM

David, does Ford owners website show that your 2014 is covered under12M02 - extended 5 year warranty on the APIM (includes software updates).  If so, you need to pursue this under 12M02.  I don't know whether MY 2014 was included as MY 2013s are included.


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 17 August 2017 - 08:29 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 06:13 AM

I looked at that too but is the GPS module separate from the APIM?  I wonder which module is causing the problem?  Do a google search here for "Getting GPS Module Replaced".  I don't know what the original poster paid to get replaced or upgraded?  If the GPS tracking is off it looks like other forum members got relief from a dealer who replaced their GPS module.


Edited by jestevens, 18 August 2017 - 06:18 AM.


#11 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 06:46 AM

I looked at that too but is the GPS module separate from the APIM?  I wonder which module is causing the problem?  Do a google search here for "Getting GPS Module Replaced".  I don't know what the original poster paid to get replaced or upgraded?  If the GPS tracking is off it looks like other forum members got relief from a dealer who replaced their GPS module.

The map upgrade sd chips are used by the APIM to display the GPS data.  I believe the GPS module is separate. The APIM software has to be at a certain level for the newer chips to work.  You can check the level on the system software display page and should be able to find the appropriate level required for the chip to work correctly.

 

A quick search shows Sync v3.8 should work with the A7 and should show up on the display as 15128 or higher level. If level is good, then gps module could be bad. The OP needs to look at his service order and report exactly what it says was done.  I believe this is the latest update for Sync 2.

 

Attached is a img of the appropriate dispay in my car showing 15128.

Attached File  IMG_20170818_085129.jpg   119.52KB   1 downloads


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 18 August 2017 - 08:02 AM.

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