Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the C-MAX Hybrid Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the C-MAX Hybrid Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Here's some member benefits:
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create photo albums and post images. . .more!
Click here to create an account now
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Hybrid Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo

How long did your original C-max battery last?

battery poll

  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

Poll: How long did your original C-max battery last? (21 member(s) have cast votes)

How long in years did your original C-max 12 v battery last?

  1. 1 year (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 2 years (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 3 years (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 4 years (4 votes [19.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

  5. 5 years (2 votes [9.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  6. Still using original 12 v battery (15 votes [71.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 71.43%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

SnowStorm

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 790 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationVirginia
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max SE

Posted 24 August 2017 - 12:39 PM

+3,  I just checked mine and its age says 440.  It was replaced about 15 months ago by the dealer under the "big fix" for dead batteries.  I had just started the car and due to low HVB it had just finished running for a few minutes.  It was driven about an hour yesterday and about 10 hours on Tuesday.  Just now it was showing 2.0 amps and 76% SOC.  Voltage at front posts is 14.49 (car still ON) and 12.77 (car just turned OFF) and dropping slowly.  I'm heading out for some hours of driving so will see if SOC goes up.









Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.


#22 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

Plus 3 Golfer

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 1,851 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location"Valley of the Sun" - AZ
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013

Posted 24 August 2017 - 04:27 PM

Thanks, your data is what I was afraid of.  I just checked mine.  The car was driven less than 10 miles by my wife (2 trips) and then left off for about 2 hours.   From now on, I'm going to measure the actual voltage using the BCM data point. It should be slightly higher than the posts under the hood. So, early this morning before any trips, SOC read 48% and battery voltage under hood was 12.34 V.  So, about 1 pm today, I measured the following in the BCM.

 

Car put in ACC Mode:and Car is charging slightly

V=12.90; I= +1.12 A; SOC=24%

 

Car then turned on and after 2 minutes of charging:

V=14.3; I = +13.06 A; SOC=26% (both volts and current were falling with time. I saw 14.5 volts for several seconds.)

 

Car turned off and battery began discharging:

V=13.4; I = - 1X.XX and falling quickly to state below

 

Car Off after about 2- 3 minutes of discharging:

V=12.65; I= - 5.44 A; SOC=26% 

 

Car Off (ForScan won't connect) about 5+ minutes

V=12.35 at battery posts under hood since I can't measure BCM

 

It will be interesting to see how high the SOC will get in our batteries.  I have a feeling that because my battery age is thought to be so high that the algorithms are adjusting the charging voltage / current assuming my capacity is a lot less than it actually is.  I need to continue to monitor and think about this and perhaps record the data.  I'm beginning to believe that since my actual losses with the 2+ year old battery is significatly less than the accumulated losses after 1708 days used to establish charging parameters, my battery is being consistanly under charged.  In other words, the algorithm believes that a SOC near say between 24% - 50% represents a "good" charge on a 1708 day old battery service.   But my battery is less than 800 days old.  

 

So, the issue I have is how can I get Ford to make any adjustments??? and at no cost to me??? - probably won't ever happen. Second, even when ForScan is done Beta testing their Windows version and makes the version final, I likely will be able to reset the battery monitor as Ford could do.  The reset will likely not work since the losses will likely be zeroed out and coulomb counting will start over.

 

Either way my battery will likely fail sooner than it should -- undercharging as I suspect currently or likely overcharge if I reset the battery monitor. :ford:  :mademyday:  



#23 ONLINE   homestead

homestead

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 432 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • LocationPacific Northwest
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Hybrid SEL

Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:35 PM

Here is text from a 2013 F150 manual that doesn't show up in the c-max manual.

 

After battery replacement,
or in some cases after charging the battery with the external charger,
the BMS requires eight hours of vehicle sleep time (key off with doors
closed) to relearn the new battery state of charge. Prior to relearning the
state of charge, the BMS may disable electrical features (to protect the
battery) earlier than normal.



#24 OFFLINE   obob

obob

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 602 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • LocationUS
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:C-MAX SE

Posted 24 August 2017 - 07:24 PM

Maybe this article will help the discussion.

 

My take is that this is what was needed to be done when the C-Max's were getting the battery discharge events.  It may not all be necessary.

 

This was seems of special interest.

 

"Using Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) service tool, perform the battery monitoring system (BMS) reset after the new battery is connected. "

 

https://ford.oemdtc....2014-ford-c-max

 

I would not be surprised if the dealers just know it is OK to just put the battery in and forget the other stuff.  Otherwise installing a battery would cost way more.


Edited by obob, 24 August 2017 - 07:26 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

SnowStorm

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 790 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationVirginia
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max SE

Posted 24 August 2017 - 07:43 PM

OK, finished a 4+ hour trip and here is what I got (initial data repeated from above post).  Temperature below is the battery temp; ambient was around 80F.

 

Before trip but after car had charged HVB for several minutes (and so, had been charging 12V battery as well):

I=2.0 A,   SOC=76%,  T=???,  BAT_V_DSB=???   V=14.49 (front posts car ON), V=12.77 (front posts car OFF)

 

After driving about 1.5 hours:

I=0.5 A,   SOC=80%,  T=88F,  BAT_V_DSB=14.40   V=14.37 (front posts car ON), V=12.79 to 12.94 (front posts car OFF)

 

After total driving of about 4.75 hours:

I=0.25 A,   SOC=84%,  T=93F,  BAT_V_DSB=14.20   V=14.18 (front posts car ON), V=12.7x (front posts car OFF)

 

Note: voltage at front posts after car is turned OFF bounce around as things turn OFF (or ON?)

 

I remember watching the battery charge current some years back and noting that it takes hours for it to drop close to zero.



#26 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

Plus 3 Golfer

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 1,851 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location"Valley of the Sun" - AZ
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013

Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:44 PM

I'll bet the 0.25 A is close to the trickle charge rate.  "Trickle charging means charging a fully charged battery under no-load at a rate equal to its self-discharge rate, thus enabling the battery to remain at its fully charged level."   So, I would think that your battery could be down as much as 16% capacity from new in the 440 days.  

 

Last evening I spent about 30 - 40 minutes in the garage with the car on setting my tire pressure to around 45 psi for our trip next week and monitoring the battery stuff. During that time SOC increased from about 32 % to IIRC around 45%. I did see a very low charge rate at the end but I can't recall whether it was down to 0.25 A. I'm thinking it was down to about 0.45 A at 45% SOC. So, I'll bet that my maximum SOC will show around 50% based on accumulating 1708 days of losses. 

 

The question is what effect are these bogus losses having on the life of my battery.  I don't ever remember seeing 12.7 V on the front posts even pre the battery CSP when charging voltage was set IIRC about 14 V.

 

Here is text from a 2013 F150 manual that doesn't show up in the c-max manual.

 

After battery replacement,
or in some cases after charging the battery with the external charger,
the BMS requires eight hours of vehicle sleep time (key off with doors
closed) to relearn the new battery state of charge. Prior to relearning the
state of charge, the BMS may disable electrical features (to protect the
battery) earlier than normal.

I looked again and I can't find anything about relearning SOC after 8 hours in the service manual.  Is there a BMS reset service procedure in the F150?  Does the manual require a replacement battery to have the same capacity as the original battery like the C-Max so that the BMS works correctily?  I'll bet the BMS is different since we have a DC/DC converter.

 

The BMS (SOC) in the C-Max is also used for triggering load shedding.  Perhaps this is why post battery CSP the time of APIM system shutting down is shorter.


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 24 August 2017 - 09:46 PM.

  • ptjones likes this

#27 ONLINE   homestead

homestead

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 432 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • LocationPacific Northwest
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Hybrid SEL

Posted 24 August 2017 - 11:43 PM

I looked again and I can't find anything about relearning SOC after 8 hours in the service manual.  Is there a BMS reset service procedure in the F150?  Does the manual require a replacement battery to have the same capacity as the original battery like the C-Max so that the BMS works correctily?  I'll bet the BMS is different since we have a DC/DC converter.

 

The BMS (SOC) in the C-Max is also used for triggering load shedding.  Perhaps this is why post battery CSP the time of APIM system shutting down is shorter.

 

Here is the entire text below on the 2013 F150 manual for  BMS page 336  ...  

 

Battery Management System (If Equipped)

The battery management system (BMS) monitors battery conditions and takes actions to extend battery life. If excessive battery drain is detected, the system may temporarily disable certain electrical features to protect the battery. Those electrical accessories affected include the rear defrost, heated/cooled seats, climate control fan, heated steering wheel, audio and navigation system. A message may be shown in the information displays to alert the driver that battery protection actions are active. These messages are only for notification that an action is taking place, and not intended to indicate an electrical problem or that the battery requires replacement.

Electrical accessory installation

To ensure proper operation of the BMS, any electrical devices that are added to the vehicle should not have their ground connection made directly at the negative battery post. A connection at the negative battery post can cause inaccurate measurements of the battery condition and potential incorrect system operation.

Note: Electrical or electronic accessories added to the vehicle by the dealer or the owner may adversely affect battery performance and durability, and may also affect the performance of other electrical systems in the vehicle.

When a battery replacement is required, the battery should only be replaced with a Ford recommended replacement battery which matches the electrical requirements of the vehicle. After battery replacement,
or in some cases after charging the battery with the external charger,
the BMS requires eight hours of vehicle sleep time (key off with doors closed) to relearn the new battery state of charge. Prior to relearning the state of charge, the BMS may disable electrical features (to protect the battery) earlier than normal.



#28 ONLINE   homestead

homestead

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 432 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • LocationPacific Northwest
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Hybrid SEL

Posted 25 August 2017 - 02:33 PM

Went down to my local Ford dealer today with the $99 ford coupon for a new battery.

They told me that coupon is for a "Plus" battery and they don't have a Plus battery

for the C-max even though the coupon list C-max Hybrid and Energi on the coupon.

So will look around some more and see what I can find.



#29 OFFLINE   raadsel

raadsel

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 564 posts
  • Region:U.S. Mountain
  • LocationHouston, TX
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max SEL

Posted 25 August 2017 - 02:44 PM

Went down to my local Ford dealer today with the $99 ford coupon for a new battery.

They told me that coupon is for a "Plus" battery and they don't have a Plus battery

for the C-max even though the coupon list C-max Hybrid and Energi on the coupon.

So will look around some more and see what I can find.

 

I think I'd try a different Ford dealer, maybe change where I get my C-Max worked on.

 

I ordered a Lithium jump starter, since I question how much longer my battery will last. Amazon claims it will be delivered today, and I hope it is, but with the weather I have my doubts.


Edited by raadsel, 25 August 2017 - 02:45 PM.


#30 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Platinum Member
  • 3,292 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan, GA
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-MAX SEL

Posted 25 August 2017 - 03:36 PM

Well I didn't do what the OM says to do when replacing the 12 v battery and I didn't have any problems. I'm not sure, but I may have used jumper batt. when replacing the battery. I had a jumper battery in the garage and I knew I would lose my setting if I disconnected the 12 v batt. so I'm thinking I did. In that case I wouldn't have to do anything. :)



#31 ONLINE   homestead

homestead

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 432 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • LocationPacific Northwest
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Hybrid SEL

Posted 25 August 2017 - 04:47 PM

I called Autozone they have a 2yr battery for c-max for $119.

O'Reilly's wanted $142

 

So went to another Ford dealer they had the same sad story why they couldn't honor

the $99 coupon for the C-max but the guy said he would sell me the better battery

for $119 and they would install it for free.  So had them do it.

Also asked them to jump the car from the hood while they installed it so it wouldn't lose presets.(that worked!)

I actually helped the guy install the new battery so the positive terminal wouldn't short out.

The tool for resetting the battery management was out on a extended drive for troubleshooting

another customer so I can take it back in tomorrow and get it reset.



#32 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Platinum Member
  • 3,292 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan, GA
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-MAX SEL

Posted 25 August 2017 - 05:19 PM

It will be interesting to see if that changes anything. :)

 

Paul



#33 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

Plus 3 Golfer

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 1,851 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location"Valley of the Sun" - AZ
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013

Posted 26 August 2017 - 05:52 AM

My wife had run many errands yesterday morning putting about 6 miles on car with several  stops.  I got home from golf around 1 PM.  About 2 PM we went out and I connected my smartphone to monitor battery data.  SOC = 0 % ?  If it were a real gauge, I'd be banging on it to see if it were broken.  Charging voltage = 14.5 V falling to 14.35 V for the rest of the 6 mile round trip with 2 stops.  SOC remained at 0%.

 

This morning my readings are SOC=0% and Voltage under hood =  12.02 V.  Obviously, SOC is not zero as the car started.  At 12.02 V  SOC should be around 20  %.  I got the following readings in ACC and On Mode.

 

ACC Mode V= 12.9 V , I = 1.12 A charging

On Mode V= 14.8 V falling quickly to 14.6 V with I = 12.5 A charging.

 

Several likely hypotheses are: 1) my SOC is not zero as the car started, 2)  the 8 hour F150 algorithm doesn't apply or calculates SOC incorrectly, 3) the algorithm uses the accumulated losses to determine how much charge to apply to the battery and thus undercharges my battery 4) my battery needs replaced (still under the 36 month free replacement) as it does not hold charge.

 

Monday I'm going to the local Ford dealer and discuss this with the SA and see if they will test the battery for free.  I was told prior when my previous battery died that for Ford to replace a battery under warranty they must charge it for several hours to insure it is bad. 



#34 ONLINE   homestead

homestead

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 432 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • LocationPacific Northwest
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Hybrid SEL

Posted 26 August 2017 - 11:32 AM

Update:  Battery was replaced yesterday.  Car sat overnight and went back to the dealer to get the battery management system reset.

When I turned off the car at the dealer I timed the time until the radio shuts off.  2 min 10 sec.

They reset the BMS and the guy says they are supposed to reset all cars after battery change.

Drove home 2 miles turned off the car and timed the time until the radio shuts off.  10 min 0s exactly

 

My conclusions , the cmax does not have the ability to auto reset itself overnight and the short turn off time was due to the age of the battery.

 

I doubt they would have asked me to come back the next day if I hadn't asked for the BMS reset on the front end.


Edited by homestead, 26 August 2017 - 11:33 AM.

  • ptjones likes this

#35 ONLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

Plus 3 Golfer

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 1,851 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Location"Valley of the Sun" - AZ
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013

Posted 26 August 2017 - 12:19 PM

Update:  Battery was replaced yesterday.  Car sat overnight and went back to the dealer to get the battery management system reset.

When I turned off the car at the dealer I timed the time until the radio shuts off.  2 min 10 sec.

They reset the BMS and the guy says they are supposed to reset all cars after battery change.

Drove home 2 miles turned off the car and timed the time until the radio shuts off.  10 min 0s exactly

 

My conclusions , the cmax does not have the ability to auto reset itself overnight and the short turn off time was due to the age of the battery.

 

I doubt they would have asked me to come back the next day if I hadn't asked for the BMS reset on the front end.

Agree.  

 

My APIM now shuts down very quickly in a minute or so with SOC = 0%.  

 

Just got back from a 54 mile round trip (about 37 minutes one way).  SOC started out showing zero.  Charge current was about 1.88 A and V = 14.5.  After about one hour of driving SOC finally showed 1% on the way home.  After another 8 minutes SOC = 2% until I arrived home in about 6 minutes.  Charge current the last 15 minutes was 0.88 and Voltage = 14.3 V.

 

Again, I believe my incorrect Battery Age of now 1711 days is affecting my charging (or my battery is bad).  So, my recommendation is when one replaces their battery, have it replaced by a Ford dealer and make sure they run the Battery Monitor System reset.  


  • ptjones likes this

#36 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Platinum Member
  • 3,292 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan, GA
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-MAX SEL

Posted 26 August 2017 - 01:37 PM

I guess this means we can't do it ourselves.  :sad:  I checked my 12 v batt. SOC at lighter plug at 12.5v with car off and 14.4 v with ignition on.  Turning the car off the radio lasted 2 min. 30 sec.

 

Paul



#37 OFFLINE   Noah Harbinger

Noah Harbinger

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 422 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • LocationMetro San Diego
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Hybrid

Posted 28 August 2017 - 11:21 PM

Just to respond to the original comment: I'm a hair over 4 years since purchase and I am still on the original battery. I've been meaning to do some measurements as it is getting up in age and there's no point in waiting for surprises.



#38 OFFLINE   joe

joe

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 199 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • Locationvirginia
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 c-max sel

Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:43 AM

I've got more than 50 years experience in owning cars.  I found that car batteries die around the 5th year.  So, I had Ford replace my 2013 C-Max 12v battery earlier this year.  I also carry a jump-start lithium battery (bought at Costco) as an additional precaution.

 

What I would like to know, is there a test to determine the condition of the C-Max lithium batteries?



#39 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

SnowStorm

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 790 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationVirginia
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max SE

Posted 29 August 2017 - 08:43 AM

What I would like to know, is there a test to determine the condition of the C-Max lithium batteries?

Read this topic for some ideas and further discussion.  I guess its time for me to get some new data to compare with the old baseline.



#40 OFFLINE   raadsel

raadsel

    C-Max Hybrid Member

  • C-MAX Hybrid Member
  • 564 posts
  • Region:U.S. Mountain
  • LocationHouston, TX
  • My C-MAX's Year:2013
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max SEL

Posted 29 August 2017 - 03:32 PM

I thought my battery had died this morning. Keep in mind I am in Houston and this all occurred in the rain. I went out to my car, put my hand on the handle and nothing happened. I pulled my key fob out and pressed the button, still nothing. At this point, I'm thinking the battery is dead. I pull out the physical key but can't get it to turn enough to unlock the car -- it is hard to get leverage on that short key head. I'm guessing it needs some WD-40.

 

I go back inside and grab the other key fob, thinking maybe the physical key in this fob will work better in the lock. I go out, and the car opens right up. Apparently between last night and this morning the battery in my key fob died. Annoying, but very glad I don't need to replace a battery when there is very little open, not to mention not having mail or other types of delivery.


  • Noah Harbinger likes this






Custom Search




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·