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How long did your original C-max battery last?

battery poll

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80 replies to this topic

Poll: How long did your original C-max battery last? (27 member(s) have cast votes)

How long in years did your original C-max 12 v battery last?

  1. 1 year (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 2 years (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 3 years (2 votes [7.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.41%

  4. 4 years (6 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  5. 5 years (2 votes [7.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.41%

  6. Still using original 12 v battery (17 votes [62.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.96%

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#61 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:39 PM

Yes thanks, I changed the FOB I use the most about 2 months ago, and I changed the batteries in both FOBs last night.  That was a weird experience, the dealer shop replaced the battery and glued the loose carpet strips in the back with some double sided tape but when I went to leave touching the front door handles locked the car and touching the back handles unlocked it.  The FOB buttons work as expected.  The Advisor offered to have the car reprogrammed but I was there late and all of her techs went home already.  I'm guess I'm taking it back in to get flashed tomorrow at no charge.  I drove it to a restaurant for dinner and when I came back out the car seemed to work as expected, then when I got home I tested things and it was like the driver's door was alternately hypersensitive to putting your hand anywhere near the lock pad on the front door handles, if I grabbed it ONLY on the front part of the handle it would unlock - sometimes  it wouldn't respond at all for a few seconds.  The BCM seemed to be acting slowly..

 

So I'm not exactly sure what is failing - the antenna?  the BCM?  Bad settings?   I don't know for sure.  I guess I'm glad I have the new battery anyway, it might have lasted one more year if I was lucky probably.  The dealer didn't want to change it because it tested good.  They thought I would be mad if it didn't solve the problem.

 

They apparently have a "hybrid specialist" that only works certain days for $105/hr  .. I guess sort of like how some shops bring in a specialist for transmissions?  They wanted to have that person do a diagnostic.  I guess if the re-flash doesn't work maybe I will.  This is a presidential award winning dealer that does work for miles around.  and I'm glad they are trying to help me but It's funny that the shop where I bought the car at a little country dealer seemed to know more about hybrids.

 

Oh, the new battery with tax, labor etc. was about a $200 charge.  I remember how much fun I had changing the battery in the Prius and the C-MAX looked to be about just as much fun so I guess it was worth it.  By the time I would have bought all the deep sockets or whatever, and it's cold out this time of year I guess I would have spent about the same amount.  Amazon wanted $140 for the battery + $26 for shipping.  Some of the online Ford dealers were selling it for about $90.


Edited by jestevens, 10 January 2018 - 09:48 PM.








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#62 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 08:45 AM

I originally took my 2013 Energi to a local (non-Ford) shop to get the battery replaced.  They worked on it for an hour or so, got scared by the bright orange cables, and gave up.  At least they didn't charge me anything!



#63 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 06:57 AM

The car ended up being fine, within 24-48 hours after the change it now operates normally and the dealer tested it, found proper operation and didn't reprogram anything.  I guess maybe when I went to grab the front door handles maybe I inadvertently touched the lock pad or for the first day or so between the new 12V battery and brand new FOB batteries everything was hypersensitive.


Edited by jestevens, 18 January 2018 - 06:58 AM.


#64 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:41 PM

I finally looked at ForScan Windows beta FREE version to see if the 12 V Battery Reset function was enabled in the Beta version.  It is and I was able to reset the age of my 12 V battery.  Now it shows 0 months old. :)   SOC was 63%.  I'll continue to monitor SOC with the battery age now at 0 months. 

 

Forgot to mention, the timeout of the audio system was 10 minutes (almost to the second) after I turned the car off.  Prior, it was around 2 1/2 minutes.  So, perhaps battery age is also used in determing how long one has to listen to the radio after shutting the car off.


Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 26 February 2018 - 06:29 PM.

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#65 OFFLINE   homestead

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 07:47 PM

 

Forgot to mention, the timeout of the audio system was 10 minutes (almost to the second) after I turned the car off.  Prior, it was around 2 1/2 minutes.  So, perhaps battery age is also used in determing how long one has to listen to the radio after shutting the car off.

 

Yes, look at my post #34 on this thread. Same results!


Edited by homestead, 26 February 2018 - 08:40 PM.


#66 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 09:24 PM

Yes, look at my post #34 on this thread. Same results!

When I timed it and got exactly 10 minutes, I did recall somewhere reading the 10 minutes after battery age reset.   Just couldn't recall where.  This confirms age matters. :)



#67 OFFLINE   pianewman

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:24 AM

Purchased our 2013CMax SEL use, 41k miles, in August, 2016. I have for many years installed a battery hookup to use a BatteryTender Plus for occasional use (during long periods when car is stored/garaged). I installed the BTP lugs directly to the bolts on the battery cable lugs.

 

After purchase, noticed that the BatteryTender could NOT fully charge the OEM battery, after several days on trickle charge. Dealer replaced the battery, no cost...UNKNOWN whether or not they performed a reset, but I'll assume they didn't.

 

Fast-forward to last week (17 months on replacement battery): Entertainment and Nav went dark. Reset both by pulling fuse #79. Heard a loud "pop" when I removed the fuse, no sound when I replaced it. Both Entertainment and Nav came back to life, and continue to function.

 

Several questions:

 

1) I connected the BatteryTenderPlus cables directly to the bolts on the battery clamps. Should I put them somewhere else?

2) Does the Entertainment and Nav going dark indicate a weak battery?

 

As soon as the car returns home (it's away at son's college), I'll plug the battery tender in, see how long it takes to charge. Also, will perform the timed "ignition off/radio on" function.

 

Thanks in advance. Still learning about hybrid/elec drivetrains, owning a 2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid and a 2015 Nissan Leaf. BTW, the reason I've used BatteryTenders for many years is years of boating/camping...deep cycles batteries. Also, VW CRTDI ownership, which are power hogs. I never want the inconvenience of battery failure.

 

Ed in Ft. Worth, TX


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#68 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 03:15 PM

1) That's about as good as it gets, although the lugs under the hood are easier to get to for most.

2) Not as far as I can tell.  My battery died a year ago Christmas, my Entertainment went dark in the coldest part of this past winter.

 

BTW, the 12v battery should be charged from the alternator whenever you run the car.  It is pretty much only used to pull the relays that isolate the HVB from the rest of the works.

 

IMHO it's a design failure to neglect keeping the 12v battery charged while parked, at least while the HVB can still start the ICE.  This is doubly true for the Energi models.



#69 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 05:22 PM

1) That's about as good as it gets, although the lugs under the hood are easier to get to for most.

2) Not as far as I can tell.  My battery died a year ago Christmas, my Entertainment went dark in the coldest part of this past winter.

 

BTW, the 12v battery should be charged from the alternator whenever you run the car.  It is pretty much only used to pull the relays that isolate the HVB from the rest of the works.

 

IMHO it's a design failure to neglect keeping the 12v battery charged while parked, at least while the HVB can still start the ICE.  This is doubly true for the Energi models.

 

Disconnecting the HVB while the car is off is a safety feature; it is meant to protect those that are servicing the car -- particularly emergency services if you are in an accident or have another issue. I do think this is something Hyundai/Kia got right in their Ioniq and Niro models, where they have a button that connects the HVB to charge the 12V battery in case the 12V has died.


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#70 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 05:51 PM

Our CMAX's  have generators in the trans and the Invertor.  I think you are right about charging the 12v batt. from under the hood. :)

 

Paul



#71 OFFLINE   joe

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 06:48 PM

My one year old 12v battery apparently dropped below some level of charge and shut down everything.  Fortunately, I have a lithium charge kit to jump start.  This also occurred two months ago.  I'm not sure if it's worth taking to Ford.  Might take it in just to document the problem.  My C-Max original battery lasted over 4 years and never failed.  I replaced it only because of its age.



#72 OFFLINE   pianewman

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:55 PM

joe: One year old failure? Yikes. Was it a "Ford" replacement, from a dealer?

 

I've come to the conclusion that battery QC is hit or miss. I've been a member over at TDIClub and Vortex since 2009, and it seems battery longevity varies greatly.



#73 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:01 AM

Disconnecting the HVB while the car is off is a safety feature; it is meant to protect those that are servicing the car -- particularly emergency services if you are in an accident or have another issue. I do think this is something Hyundai/Kia got right in their Ioniq and Niro models, where they have a button that connects the HVB to charge the 12V battery in case the 12V has died.

I *do* understand the safety aspects of the disconnect.  I hope the Kia's recharge button is reachable; for us, the doors won't unlock when the 12v is dead.



#74 ONLINE   obob

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 10:20 AM

A button would have saved Ford a lot of towing fees but not the cost of the batteries when the battery was an issue and before they fixed it so battery would not discharge below an unsafe charge. And it would have had less damage to their reputation.  And it seems like the right thing to do.  I think it is a great idea.

 

On the other hand, they may sell more batteries without the button and answer less questions.  My sense is car manufacturers know that for some types of cars, generally the less geeky a car and the sexier it is, the more it sells.

 

I wonder what Kia calls that button.  Maybe the "Jump Start Button."

 

I wonder if that button is mechanical or something that is powered by a capacitor or separate long life battery.

 

 

 

 

Discussing uses for the high voltage battery, and with the trend of cars becoming so smart, perhaps there could be a taser button that locates and handles carjackers.

 

[ Though the liability of zapping the wrong people would be way to high. ]

 

 ( there's more - search for trunk monkey)


Edited by obob, 06 March 2018 - 11:26 AM.


#75 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:15 AM

According to C&D the button is like a simple connected jump start from the HVB applying 12V for a few seconds to the 12V battery. Also, C&D notes downsides to Hyundai's approach below.  Replacement cost of the 12V battery could be high as it's integrated into the HVB pack.  This also begs the question of battery degradation over time and warranty coverage of such degradation.

 

"If there’s a downside to this solution, it’s that there are no accessible 12-volt battery terminals—the battery is sealed under the rear seat—so the Ioniq Hybrid may also be the world’s first production car that can’t be used to jump-start another car.

Longevity is another reasonable concern. Hyundai warranties the entire battery pack, including the 12-volt battery, for the original owner’s lifetime, with no restriction on mileage. All subsequent owners are covered for up to 10 years or 100,000 miles. After that, we expect it will cost far more than $100 to replace a custom battery that isn’t designed for easy swapping."


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#76 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:51 PM

According to C&D the button is like a simple connected jump start from the HVB applying 12V for a few seconds to the 12V battery. Also, C&D notes downsides to Hyundai's approach below.  Replacement cost of the 12V battery could be high as it's integrated into the HVB pack.  This also begs the question of battery degradation over time and warranty coverage of such degradation.

 

"If there’s a downside to this solution, it’s that there are no accessible 12-volt battery terminals—the battery is sealed under the rear seat—so the Ioniq Hybrid may also be the world’s first production car that can’t be used to jump-start another car.

Longevity is another reasonable concern. Hyundai warranties the entire battery pack, including the 12-volt battery, for the original owner’s lifetime, with no restriction on mileage. All subsequent owners are covered for up to 10 years or 100,000 miles. After that, we expect it will cost far more than $100 to replace a custom battery that isn’t designed for easy swapping."

 

I'm not quite sure why the button couldn't be included on every hybrid, I can't see why it wouldn't work equally as well for a lead acid 12V -- it is part of the reason I left out that they included the 12V as part of the LiPo HVB pack. As for longevity, my guess is that the "12V battery" on the Ioniq is maintained (in terms of charge) in a similar manner as the other HVB cells -- not allowed to fully charge or discharge (and likely an additional reason why the button is necessary).

 

I'm guessing Hyundai/Kia testing shows that the "12V battery" cell will last a similar length as the rest of the HVB -- and it appears that LiPo Hybrid batteries are holding up very well in real world use. When you get to the point that you need to replace the HVB, I doubt the extra cell acting as the 12V battery adds much cost. It will be interesting what the cost of replacing that 12V battery is -- if one has to be replaced separately -- and it could easily be that the higher replacement cost is largely offset by replacing it much less often than a traditional lead acid battery.

 

As for not having the posts that would allow you to charge the 12V, or jump start another car, I suspect that was done to protect the battery. I'm guessing the LiPo battery is less tolerant of the mistakes people make using jumper cables -- and a mistake that would cause a 12V lead acid battery to explode would be much worse with a LiPo (particularly when right next to the rest of the HVB). Additionally, with the button to give the 12V a small charge, if the HVB doesn't have enough power to charge the 12V then you have worse issues then just a dead 12V battery and the car will need to be serviced anyway. Last, with portable charges so common now, there is much less need for you to be able to jump start another car.


Edited by raadsel, 06 March 2018 - 01:53 PM.

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#77 OFFLINE   joe

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 04:37 PM

UPDATE UPDATE:

In December and this past weekend, the C-Max was dead.  I jumped started both times with no problems.  So, I went to Ford dealer today.  They checked battery and replaced it.  I bought the battery 14 months ago from the dealer which was under warranty - so it cost me nothing.

 

Because the original battery lasted 4 years, it suggests that part of the problem maybe Ford's batteries - some work and some don't work for very long.


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#78 OFFLINE   pianewman

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:27 PM

Post #72. I think QC is very inconsistent with batteries in the US...



#79 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:53 AM

Stolenmoment, in the event that the doors won't unlock by radio you can squeeze the two little indents at the top of the FOB to pop up the Ford logo on the back of the FOB just enough to pry it off and get to the "T" shaped safety key underneath.  You can then insert key into driver's side lock of door and twist to be able to unlock.  You can hold FOB up to steering column in order to disable alarm and try to start the car.

 

My understanding is the car does use 12V for all of its accessories but to start the engine it only needs enough to boot the computers, which command the HVB relays to close and command HVB to spin motor generator that is connected to the crankshaft of engine to start the engine.  There is some sort of step-down DC-DC converter that converts HVB DC current to 12V DC current to charge the 12V battery and provide power for accessories once the relays are closed I think.


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#80 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:24 PM

Accident 1
The DC to DC converter is located at top right center of ICE compartment. Also the orange tubing is right next to it, pics are from MADMAX in the process of being repaired after hitting deer at the end of 2013. :sad: Needless to say CMAX turned into MADMAX. :rant2:
 
Paul  

Edited by ptjones, 08 March 2018 - 02:33 PM.







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