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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Hybrid Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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New C-MAx owner - intro and a question

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37 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 08:28 PM

I got the dealer to give me the report of what was done after the car was sold to them a few months ago and I see that X0-5W20-QSP was used - synthetic blend but 5W20. Would it be wise to switch out for 0W20 esp given the unusually cold weather here in DC, now? I could take the $ hit if it's extending the car's life to a degree.

 

 

 

bp

I doubt using blends, full synthetic or different viscosity oils will have any significant effect on engine life.  The general benefit of using lower viscosity oil in cold weather is the engine will "turn" easier and thus there should be a FE benefit when the engine is cold.  The general benefit of using synthetic oil is that one can go longer between oil changes. 

 

I would use 0W20 full synthetic.  If you really want to get into a debate on oil go to BOB IS THE OIL GUY website.


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#22 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:56 PM

I got the dealer to give me the report of what was done after the car was sold to them a few months ago and I see that X0-5W20-QSP was used - synthetic blend but 5W20. Would it be wise to switch out for 0W20 esp given the unusually cold weather here in DC, now? ...

I don't see an opportunity for life extension; your "unusually cold" is my normal, and I've been doing oil analyses all along. February 2015 was record cold and there's nothing odd resulting. 

Attached File  Bov Oil data 170627.pdf   38.74KB   6 downloads
 
From this data, I would suggest against 0W20 oil. Look at the "flashpoint" and "fuel%" and it appears 0W20 lets more fuel into the oil. Conversely, for the last change, I had a 3+ hr. highway run immediately preceding, which would have driven any fuel from the oil. I'll let you know about the 5W20 EP late this year. 
 
Note that I also list the base oil contents at right, for comparison. Many of the additives vary with the oil, not the service. 
 

I doubt using blends, full synthetic or different viscosity oils will have any significant effect on engine life.  The general benefit of using lower viscosity oil in cold weather is the engine will "turn" easier and thus there should be a FE benefit when the engine is cold.  The general benefit of using synthetic oil is that one can go longer between oil changes. 

 

I would use 0W20 full synthetic.  If you really want to get into a debate on oil go to BOB IS THE OIL GUY website.

+1 to Bob

 

Based on my car's data, I'm hypothesizing that in hybrids running primarily "city" mode, where the engine is off much of the time and oil never gets to operating temperature, 5W20 may have greater resistance to oil infiltration. Note that my car's only winter oil change was 2014, also the only winter I stayed warm taking the highway nearly every day. It's the lowest flashpoint with 5W20. I await the next oil change result to see if there's a consistent pattern. No reason to expect one; most 5W20 synthetics are real close to 0W20 viscosity specs. 

 

When the oil life alarm next sounds, I may just test, not change, and see if my oil ages as well as Paul's has... with TBN, too. 

 

Have fun,

Frank 


Edited by fbov, 08 January 2018 - 10:08 PM.

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#23 OFFLINE   blakespot

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:13 PM

Plus 3 Golfer vs fbov -- what to do.

 

I was all set to go have the oil changed to full synth 0W20 tomorrow... Hmmm.

 

Typically it's not much colder than 25F around here in winter. Summers 100-102 tops. #DC 

 

 

 

bp



#24 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:46 PM

The only reason to go to 0W20 Full synthetic is FE from what I can see and that is why I use it.  I checked my last oil change and FORD put in their standard 5W20 instead of 0W20 that the new CMAX's use, but my MPG's went up which has nothing to do with oil used. Driving conditions have everything to do with MPG's. :)

 

Paul



#25 OFFLINE   blakespot

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 05:22 PM

The only reason to go to 0W20 Full synthetic is FE from what I can see and that is why I use it.  I checked my last oil change and FORD put in their standard 5W20 instead of 0W20 that the new CMAX's use, but my MPG's went up which has nothing to do with oil used. Driving conditions have everything to do with MPG's. :)

 

Paul

My primary concern is getting the most out of this used vehicle with 74K miles on it. I will go full synthetic next oil change, but still can't decide if 0W20 or 5W20 is the way to go -- or if I should do it soon in order to reduce start-up wear in the cold here. There are arguments for staying with 5W and changing to 0W both here, I see. Did Ford change the rec oil for the C-Max at a certain model onward, or thru the whole line at the same time? Thanks.

 

 

bp



#26 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 06:58 PM

My primary concern is getting the most out of this used vehicle with 74K miles on it. I will go full synthetic next oil change, but still can't decide if 0W20 or 5W20 is the way to go -- or if I should do it soon in order to reduce start-up wear in the cold here. There are arguments for staying with 5W and changing to 0W both here, I see. Did Ford change the rec oil for the C-Max at a certain model onward, or thru the whole line at the same time? Thanks.

 

 

bp

If you posed the highlighted red to BITOG website, you'd probably be told things like Mobil 1 sucks, you want to use a group IV or V oil and the list goes on.  I think if you used Amsoil or Royal Purple (likely 1.5 X 2 cost of Mobil 1), people on BITOG would say "great choice" of oil and you'd have peace of mind. 

 

You are over thinking this.  If you are really concerned about oil life (and thus engine life), you can get UOAs done like ptjones, and others which allow one to extend/ shorten the time between oil changes based on the UOA.  How often have you heard of engine wear issues because someone used 5W20 blend vs 5W 20 synthetic or conventional oil.  Manufacturer's OCI are conservative (for good reason).  So, bottom line: follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

 

Ford recommends 0W20 to be used only in 2013-2018 Hybrids per the latest Motorcraft Oil Chart PDF dated 12/2017.  IIRC, Ford did not have an oil spec for 0W20 until MY 2014. Hence, the recommendation for MY 2013 was 5W20.  The 2014 Owner's Manual shows 0W20 spec with a footnote that 5W20 can be used if 0W20 is unavailable.


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#27 OFFLINE   blakespot

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:38 PM

You’re prob right re: my overthinking. I will go synthetic 0W20’next time but not particularly early wrt next change window.

Can you tell me if 225/50R17 Michelin’s are then Ford OEM tires made for this vehicle? That’s what I have on the car, a fairly new set it seems. Thanks.


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#28 OFFLINE   blakespot

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 10:46 PM

I verified with a web search that the tires on the vehicle are the Ford recommended Michelines.

 

Sorry to inundate with questions, but I notice that the ICE noise level when it kicks in is notably higher at low speeds than that of my 1.5L Fusion's EcoBoost. I imagine this may be due to the engine charging the battery and running at higher RPM than is needed simply to move the vehicle. Does it make sense that the engine would sound notably louder in the C-Max? I am aware it's larger displacement engine (2.0L) and that it is of a different tech. Also, the Fusion probably has more of an isolation for a "serene driving experience" than the C-Max. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

bp



#29 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:14 PM

I verified with a web search that the tires on the vehicle are the Ford recommended Michelines.

 

Sorry to inundate with questions, but I notice that the ICE noise level when it kicks in is notably higher at low speeds than that of my 1.5L Fusion's EcoBoost. I imagine this may be due to the engine charging the battery and running at higher RPM than is needed simply to move the vehicle. Does it make sense that the engine would sound notably louder in the C-Max? I am aware it's larger displacement engine (2.0L) and that it is of a different tech. Also, the Fusion probably has more of an isolation for a "serene driving experience" than the C-Max. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

bp

 

I believe the C-Max, particularly the 2013, has less sound deadening material than the Fusion in an attempt to lower the weight of the vehicle. I know, for example, the front windshield was changed for the 2014 C-Max to one with better sound insulation. While it won't effect engine noise, you do get somewhat more road noise in the C-Max because it is a station wagon, where you get more rear axle/tire noise that is isolated by the trunk in a sedan.


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#30 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:32 AM

Car is quieter if you have stuff in the trunk and the cover closed. :)  Generally the tires are the noisiest thing after 20k mi. I like how smooth the car rides, no vibrations. :) 

 

Paul 



#31 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:17 PM

Can you tell me if 225/50R17 Michelin’s are then Ford OEM tires made for this vehicle? That’s what I have on the car, a fairly new set it seems. Thanks.

bp

Original tires are P225 (P-metric) tire that has a service description of 93V and maximum pressure of 51 psi.  They also make a 225 "Metric" (no P) Energy Saver A/S with a 94V service description but it is only rated for 44 psi.  You can find the 93V on the sidewall under the "ENERGY SAVER A/S" logo - or just make sure the tire is a P225/50R17 tire.  Of course the maximum pressure is on the sidewall as well.  I haven't heard that anyone has mixed them up yet but I could see it happening.


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#32 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:27 PM

Original tires are P225 (P-metric) tire that has a service description of 93V and maximum pressure of 51 psi.  They also make a 225 "Metric" (no P) Energy Saver A/S with a 94V service description but it is only rated for 44 psi.  You can find the 93V on the sidewall under the "ENERGY SAVER A/S" logo - or just make sure the tire is a P225/50R17 tire.  Of course the maximum pressure is on the sidewall as well.  I haven't heard that anyone has mixed them up yet but I could see it happening.

 

The difference between P-metric and metric:  https://www.discount...0180112232518:s


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#33 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:38 PM

...I notice that the ICE noise level when it kicks in is notably higher at low speeds than that of my 1.5L Fusion's EcoBoost. I imagine this may be due to ...

 This is the biggest difference from a conventional drive train - engine speed doesn't change. You no longer start from a very quiet idle RPM but rather from OFF. It's a lot quieter in the hybrid.

 

As you start moving, the engine speed no longer rises slowly from idle, it no longer blends in with the increasing road noise, and it no longer gets louder, then softer, then louder, then softer, then louder as RPM rises in a lower gear, then softer when it shifts into higher gear.

In a hybrid, when the ICE starts, there is no "idle" speed, it runs near the cruising RPM form the start, ever wavering (unless you ask it to). You notice it more because it goes from silent to full-throat very quickly. I noticed it because it never changed... there were no gear changes occurring... very odd for anyone whose driven a clutch.

 

It's more of a power plant than an just an engine...

 

Frank 


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#34 OFFLINE   BradnChristine

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:55 PM

A late comment on the price.  I just traded in a 2013 C-MAX SEL that I loved, with 46000 miles on it.  They gave me a decent price on a new 2017 Titanium with all the fancy stuff except the roof (not a good thing in Arizona), so I took $8500 as a trade-in price. They have it listed at $12,600.  I think your $9k price is great.  My car started out as a Rental Car in Kauai and there was another owner before I purchased it in May 2016.  Since I titled it in Oregon and later in AZ, Carfax incorrectly shows it as 4-owner.  So if a four owner, former rental car is worth over $10k, your car sounds great for an SEL.



#35 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:08 PM

With many used C-Max cars available I started wondering about prices versus mileage.  Here's a graph for 18 SEs and 14 SELs.  Per trend line, prices start just over 15k for zero miles (what a deal!) and drop to $0 at 300k miles.

 

Trend line for SEs only is:    Price = -0.059170 X Miles + 14886   (drop to $o at 252k miles)

Trend line for SELs only is:  Price = -0.033591 X Miles + 15072   (drop to $o at 449k miles)

 

So, SEs and SELs are about the same for low mileage but SEs loose value faster at high miles.

Oh dear, my car is over half way to being "worthless".  After that I'll have to pay someone to take it?

 

gallery_656_57_19188.png


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#36 OFFLINE   blakespot

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 04:06 PM

Original tires are P225 (P-metric) tire that has a service description of 93V and maximum pressure of 51 psi.  They also make a 225 "Metric" (no P) Energy Saver A/S with a 94V service description but it is only rated for 44 psi.  You can find the 93V on the sidewall under the "ENERGY SAVER A/S" logo - or just make sure the tire is a P225/50R17 tire.  Of course the maximum pressure is on the sidewall as well.  I haven't heard that anyone has mixed them up yet but I could see it happening.

I checked and indeed I have the 225 (non-P) tires. These are the same physical size as the R225 that Ford spec'ed from Micheline for the C-Max, I think. Am I still getting the mileage I would out of the P225 tires -- or close? I seem to get ~40MP/g in the 8 mile drive from DC to northern VA and sometimes just over 50, according to the C-Max console computer. 

 

The tires on this used vehicle look in rather good shape.

 

 

bp



#37 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:47 PM

I'm no tire expert but I doubt if mileage would vary much between the two.  They're both "Energy Saver" and Michelin gives both a 10 for efficiency (FWIW). One wouldn't expect to save any money disposing of a good set of tires even if the OEMs were a bit better.  Just run them until you want new tires - but not above 44 psi.  Per Michelin, the differences are (93V / 94V):

 

Tread Depth:  9.5 / 8.5  32nds

Max Load @ 44 psi:  1433 / 1477 lbs

Weight:  22.18 / 22.71 pounds

Max Inflation:  51 / 44 psi  (not in above linked chart)


Edited by SnowStorm, 05 February 2018 - 07:49 PM.

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#38 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:50 PM

Re: tread depth

 

Tire Rack lists two 44 psi, 94V 225/50-17 tires, a Canadian sourced tire at 8/32 and a US-sourced tire at 9/32, and both carry a notation "different tread." 

 

Regarding performance differences, maximum load is only available at the rated pressure. A tire that's capable of 44 lb. greater load at 7 PSI lower inflation pressure must have major differences in tire carcass construction. 

 

That said, I saw no difference in mileage switching from OEM to X-Ice 3 snows, in 215/60-16 with a 99 load rating (1709 lb. @ 50 PSI), but at similar rated pressure. 

 

Have fun,

Frank








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