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Ford hybrid drivetrain teardown/detailed informational videos


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6 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   cr08

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 04:20 PM

So I have been watching this particular Youtube channel off and on for a while now called Weber Auto. Essentially lecture-like informational videos created by Professor John Kelly at Weber State University for their Advanced Automotive Technology course. And they have some videos specifically for the Ford hybrid drivetrain. Very educational.
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/WeberAuto

 

 

 

 


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#2 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 04:42 PM

Nice Weber videos!  I picked the C-Max because of the Aisin-Ford experience with the earlier 2005+ Ford Escape in New York City taxi service.  Lots of durability testing there.

 

http://fordcmaxhybri...smission-work/¬† is a good discussion of how the planetary gearset scheme on our C-Max works, and the modes it can operate in.

 

The HF35 C-Max/Fusion system is good, but I think Honda gets the design elegance award:

https://www.caranddr...ystem-tech-dept

Honda's latest Accord hybrid system cuts complexity down to the bare minimum.  Only downside is that darn pesky one clutch Honda has.   Only one though, not bad.

https://www.greencar...n-how-it-works 



#3 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:51 PM

Yes, really nice!  I especially liked seeing all the innards of the inverter and the many details pointed in all videos.  Some statements do, I feel, need verification/correction and insisting on the battery being 281.2 volts (3.7 volts x 76 cells) is a bit of a stretch - you can't get 4 significant digits from 2.  But enough of that!  I also liked the demo of flipping the magnet to make the rotor turn - quite nice - and the cinematography was great, sharp and with good lighting.  A lot of work went into making these videos for sure! :thumbsup: :clapping:


Edited by SnowStorm, 21 February 2018 - 09:52 PM.

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#4 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:45 PM

Interesting to compare and contrast the planetary gearset type CVT in the Chevy Volt (First generation model) that GM chose.

I watched the Weber video (below) on the Volt, and I've got to say the C-Max/Fusion/Prius/Pacifica layout and the current Honda Accord design is better than Volt's.

I guess the Volt's clutches are useful to get better energy efficiency from light power demands, so they did have a decent design, yet I feel like they have too much mass.

GM must have not wanted to infringe on Toyota patents or something since the planetary gearset is hooked up a little differently.

https://www.youtube....h?v=dqM3YXEf1js



#5 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 03:21 AM

Perhaps patents affected GM's component designs, but there's never been a Toyota patent on the power split device. It was TRW's, and expired in 1990. 

https://patents.goog...atent/US3732751

Frank



#6 OFFLINE   MaxHeadroom

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 08:32 AM

Perhaps patents affected GM's component designs, but there's never been a Toyota patent on the power split device. It was TRW's, and expired in 1990. 

https://patents.goog...atent/US3732751

Toyota's basic patent on the power-split planetary gearset was in 1996.  https://patents.goog...nt/US5907191/en

 

"Ford also began developing a hybrid design based on the TRW ideas and brought out a hybrid version of its Escape small SUV in 2005. Because of the close similarities in the design of the Toyota and Ford hybrids the companies agreed to swap certain hybrid patents." -- http://www.hybridcar...wo-mode-hybrid/

 

  and we saw a flurry of almost simultaneous filings and final patents in the 90's.  I guess one has to analyze in detail the similarities between the different patents and what got implemented in the 90's and 2000's to really see what the patent lawyers could have been arguing about with the famous Toyota-Ford patent swap deal.


Edited by MaxHeadroom, 24 February 2018 - 08:37 AM.


#7 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 12:20 PM

Toyota's basic patent on the power-split planetary gearset was in 1996.  https://patents.goog...nt/US5907191/en

This is a control system patent. Toyota is building on prior art, in this case the TRW patent and its successors. 

 

A controls patent is a natural and necessary result of the situation in 1973. From the article you linked:

"... the modern hybrid era had its stirrings in the late 1960s at an aerospace, credit reporting, and automotive parts conglomerate named TRW. Researchers there invented the modern idea of a power-split hybrid using a planetary gear set, a gasoline engine, and two electric motors. ...in order to be efficient and useful such a transmission needs to be carefully controlled. A hybrid transmission control computer was not a realistic possibility at that time so its design was not really practical for use in an ordinary consumer vehicle." (emphasis added)

 

Have fun,

Frank


Edited by fbov, 01 March 2018 - 12:21 PM.







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