Dead battery roll call

[dtorres]

Someone else suggested in a different thread that we do a running list of model type and options on our C-max to see if we can identify a pattern on particular vehicles. Let's start a new thread for this purpose.

 

SE model, MyTouch with Nav. 1 dead battery at ~4k miles first thing in the morning.

[salman]

SE with 201A package (parking assist, power trunk lift, ambient lighting), 160ish miles, 12 volt dead in morning after 1 week of ownership

 

[some notes for people keeping count: Remember that people who had battery problems in past months may have posted on other threads but may not still be reading this forum and may not add their details to this thread. Also, there are a few dead battery reports on non-battery related threads on this forum and also other websites, and there are probably many more people who have had battery troubles who have not posted anything on the web. "Battery trouble" is being used loosely to stand for shut down of the 12 volt electrical system; we are not yet sure whether the battery is the cause of the problem.]

Edited December 29, 2012 by salman

[roninsd]

NO electrical/power problems (yet) --

 

SEL basic. 300A package.

No electric hatchback.

Standard radio (no Sony).

No NAV.

[mbedit]

Dead 12V Twice 

 

SE basic, 200A . 

No electric hatchback.

Standard radio, No NAV.

[trburkholder]

Dead 12V first thing in morning at 1100 miles.  SE with winter package and 201A (Power liftgate; Rear radar parking distance sensors; Ambient lighting) package.  No MyTouch.

 

Dealer has ordered a replacement Panel Asy Fuse Junction which was described as a Body Control Module.

[Hybrid dude]

Dead 12V twice, at about 2,000 miles and 3,200 miles

 

Both after parked overnight

SE, zero options

[mrobinso8]

Dead battery at 1123 miles.  Second time.  First at about 400 miles end of November, day before brake system failure notification.  Dealer replaced a brake system sensor of some type that was keeping car from going into EV mode.  All was well until I noticed car was not going into EV as often (wife's car).  Yesterday at the dealer for another matter dealing with my 2013 Fusion Hybrid, which is working well, and mentioned this to the sales manager.  He said he believed the 12 volt battery was defective and bring it in sometime and he would replace it.  Well, this morning the car was totally dead.  Called Ford to come jump start it, wife wanted a record of the problem so I was not allowed.  Took it in and battery "tested bad in all areas".  Received new battery.  Driving home seemed to go in and out of EV mode normally.

[CNCGeek]

Nother one bites the dust - went out to drive tonight and found my battery dead.  I checked the headlight selector switch and it is set on auto, and verified that lights were not on after it was parked last night - they went off after the delay - so it was something else, also no interior lights were on.  I hope this is just a bad battery and not the sign of more problems to come.  Along with a spare, a portable jump starter is going on my shopping list for road trips.

 

I just noticed that there is no way from inside or out to open the liftgate when the battery is dead - great design choice there.  I thought the 12v battery is in the back of the car, but it is not shown in the manual. - anyone know where it's located?

 

SE (basic package)

Edited January 6, 2013 by CNCGeek

[MikeB]

Yes, the 12v battery is in the rear of the vehicle, just behind the high voltage battery. But there's connection points in front for jumping, so you don't need to start pulling out the floor of the cargo area. The 12v power port in the cargo area and in the center console are also live even when the vehicle is off, so those can be used to jump as well.

 

Picture here, also some good info in the emergency response guide:

http://rescuetechs.com/ford-cmax-hybrid/

Edited January 6, 2013 by MikeB

[CNCGeek]

Thanks, that's a cool article - the linked ford doc is also full of info.  The battery was near where I thought it would be, but looks to be a lot harder to remove than I expected.  I had wanted to take out the battery and put it on a charger which is why I was hunting for it.  The manual gets pretty squishy about servicing or testing the battery though, or even disconnecting it which is strange.

 

Something off topic (related to the HV battery), but interesting in the Ford PDF which is linked in the article is this:

 

"Thermal Sensors — In the event the battery is exposed to extreme hot
ambient conditions and/or is being driven extremely aggressively with
compromised cooling, power limits will be employed to prevent overheating.
However, if the battery is in use and does become too hot, contactors will
be opened and the vehicle will shut down. In some instances, if the ignition key
is left in the “ON” position, this could cause the high-voltage battery
temperature to exceed 60°C (140°F); if this temperature is reached, the
thermal sensors located near the high-voltage battery will automatically
disable the high-voltage battery."

 

It is not uncommon for temps inside a car to go above 140 deg F during the summer in some parts of the country, though I had read somewhere that Ford tested in Phoenix so hopefully this is not going to be a problem.  Still may be a good idea to back into spots in the summer if there a chance the battery may shut down due to temps - actually that wont help since it probably would not start if the HV battery was disabled.

Edited January 8, 2013 by CNCGeek

[KCmax]

The battery has gone dead 3 times since Jan. 1. All 3 times there was zero power, I had to unlock the car with the key, and the display was blank.

Called Roadside Assistance each time and had it jump started. The first time was Jan. 1, then when it hapened again on the 9th, I took it to the dealer. They replaced the battery, said it was a bad battery. The next morning (Jan. 10), the battery was again dead. Took it back to the dealer and they called last night, they said they found a stuck relay that was causing a massive battery drain, (their words).

My guess is that the relay was sticking intermittently, that's why the battery would be dead some days and fine on others, and why they didn't find it the first time.

They are keeping the car and letting it sit for 24 hours to make sure. They gave me a loaner, another C-Max, we joked about that of course.

I'm buying a jump start battery pack today to have on hand just in case. I'll follow up to let you know if this latest fix takes care of it.

[MikeB]

KCmax, please get more details on which relay they found was sticking. I'm sure everyone with a dead battery issue would like to get that relay inspected. If that's really the problem that everyone is having, a conclusive identification of the cause will be greatly appreciated all around.

[salman]

 they said they found a stuck relay that was causing a massive battery drain, (their words).

 Yes, this is vital information to share. Please let us know.

[KCmax]

I will after I pick up the car later this afternoon.

[roninsd]

KC, SE or SEL?

[KCmax]

The relay that was replaced was for the ABS brake system. But it may not have been the problem after all. One thing I didn't mention initially is that the first time I experienced a dead battery was the day after I installed a module from our insurance company (Metro Mile) in the diagnostic port. We signed up for the service and began using it on Jan. 1. I immediately assumed it to be the problem, and called Metro Mile. They talked to their tech people and assured me the unit did not draw enough power to drain down the battery. The service manager at the Ford dealer didn't think so either.

After replacing the relay, they watched the amp draw looking for anything unusual, and were waiting to hear back from Ford about what the specs were for normal amp draw when the vehicle was shut down. They unplugged the insurance co. module and the vehicle immediately "went to sleep" as they put it. The theory is that although the module does not draw much power itself, it is causing other modules in the vehicle to stay powered up, and the collective drain is enough to kill the battery.

We have the same module in 2 other vehicles we own, and have no problems, but apparently the 12V battery in the C-Max is pretty small.

I'm going to call Metro Mile first thing Monday and talk to them about it. In the meantime, I'm unplugging their module overnight until further notice.

So the issue I'm having may not be directly relevant, but it appears that since the battery is small, it's more vulnerable to going dead if anything is drawing power when the vehicle is supposed to be asleep.

FWIW, 2 of the 3 the Roadside Assistance guys who jump started the car told me they jump start a lot of hybrids.

Sorry I didn't post sooner, but I had to wait until late last night to pick up the car. The service dept. at my Ford dealer is open till midnite.

[salman]

KCmax

 

Thanks for filling in the details.

 

If you look at the "dead battery" thread" you'll see there is information posted there about similar problems with other hybrids, which can be found on-line by searching for Prius battery problems, etc. Indeed, hybrid 12 volt batteries are smaller in capacity than those in regular gas engines and thus, it seems, more sensitive, more prone to being drained, and more prone to being damaged when drained.

 

You might want to have your current battery checked after disconnecting the extra module. The battery could have been damaged when it was run down to empty. And you'll want to keep tabs on things to make sure that there are not other problems (i.e, any other battery or electrical problems).

 

We still do not know if there are problems with Ford's batteries or the C-Max circuitry, or just smaller batteries more prone to problems. Your report with the module suggests the C-Max systems are hyper-sensitive when, of course, things ought to be more robust.

 

Please keep careful records and keep us all posted - and Ford, too.

[raymond963]

Basic SE with no options.

2117 Miles.

Purchased near end of October.

 

Went out this morning to take my daughter to breakfast. Doors wouldn't unlock with key fob and when I turned the ignition on...nothing...completely dead. I called the dealer's service department for advice on jump starting it myself and was told to call roadside assistance. This annoyed me enough, along with the fact that I hadn't yet figured out how to jump start it myself, that I determined to make them pay to get me a jump. The tow company showed up within 20 minutes and jump started it. I drove the car straight to the dealer where they checked the car in and advised me that they were very busy today and might not get to it until tomorrow. When I asked about a loaner, was told that one might be available. Went ahead on to breakfast in daughter's car.

 

Called the dealer later and was told they were just then looking at it but it had been starting fine and I'd likely be able to pick it up in a half hour. Showed up to get my car and was told the tech still had it on a charger. They gave me a loaner, told me they'd check it again in the morning, and sent me on my way. I figure they think I left the lights on or something but that is not the case. I'm always careful that the doors are shut and everything is off when I leave the car and informed them of that.

 

I did notice that EV seemed to be working strange last night on my drive home, like it was randomly starting the engine on level ground at a place where it's usually in EV-Plus. Also yesterday, I started the car to go to work and noticed that the radio was playing but the display was completely blank. Powered the radio off and on and that cleared up. Last Wednesday the driver door window would auto-down but not auto-up. All other windows worked fine and driver window started working normally later that day. At the time I thought the window issue was due to icy and cold conditions and that maybe some water had frozen inside the door somewhere that interfered with the window's operation.

 

Will repost if I learn anything new.

 

(By the way, the 2011 Fusion loaner seems to have a lot less head room than the C-Max.)

[RachelnLa]

Hmmm. Glad you made notice of all the other quirky things. Interesting. Hope it's fixed promptly.

[dtorres]

Called the dealer later and was told they were just then looking at it but it had been starting fine and I'd likely be able to pick it up in a half hour. Showed up to get my car and was told the tech still had it on a charger. They gave me a loaner, told me they'd check it again in the morning, and sent me on my way. I figure they think I left the lights on or something but that is not the case. I'm always careful that the doors are shut and everything is off when I leave the car and informed them of that.

 

Some dealers who are baffled by why the battery suddenly dies are using the "you left something on or plugged in" suggestion as an easy way out.  Mine has died once and I know I didn't leave anything on or a door open.  I jumped it myself without going to the Ford dealer and it hasn't happened again.  If it does I will take it to the dealer for diagnosis and will not accept that line as an excuse.  My counter will be page 75 in the manual:

 

"Battery Saver

If the courtesy lamps, dome lamps or headlamps are left on, the battery

saver will shut them off 10 minutes after the ignition has been turned

off.

Accessory Mode Battery Saver for Intelligent Access Keys

(If Equipped)

If you shut off the engine and leave the ignition in the on or accessory

mode, the ignition will shut off after 30 minutes."

[pferde88]

My C-MAX SE with 2800 miles on it (got it on 7 December 2012) was dead as a doornail yesterday in my driveway.   Roadside assistance jumped started it.   Nothing had been left on, plus there is a module for battery saving.   Any way, car is at the dealership, they have been emailing FORD (why email I have no idea) and I am stuck in a crappy rental.  They tested the battery, it was good, and were running other tests.   I will call Ford and make sure my issue is recorded.

[jonathan3d]

Glad to find this forum. Our C-Max (SE) (3500 miles) was dead this morning. I used my battery charger to get it going. It was back to normal in 5 minutes, although it usually takes 20-30 minutes to charge a normal battery. This tells me there's some kind of switch involved, not a truly discharged battery.

[PWBarrett]

Since people have measured 5-6 volts on their battery when this happens, I think it really is discharged.

It's just that instead of having to get enough charge into the battery to run a starter motor, which is by far the biggest load in a normal car, the C-Max starts by getting the lithium battery to run the electric motor.  So the only load on the 12V battery is to power up the electronics and relays.

[Ziggy]

I got the dead battery on my Energi today.. :(

 

very strange,

 

Mine is part of a GE fleet purchase and this is the second one I've heard of this month.

 

car is 2 months old and 1100 miles..

 

since its in the drive way I plugged it in to see if that would help..

 

nope looks like it need some voltage to run the charge system.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Ziggy

[salman]

Ziggy

 

Since your car is part of a GE fleet purchase, who takes care of getting Ford to do the warranty work? You? Someone in GE's motor pool or fleet management or whatever GE calls it? If it is GE, then they might get a lot more access to Ford than we individuals get. 

 

If this is GE's car, then I know I am asking a lot of you when I ask you to please try to get as much information about Ford's handling of the problem as you can.

 

You would be helping GE fleet management, too, by telling them about the dead battery experiences reported here.

 

As for your use of the plug-in charger for the big LiOn battery: That is the car's high voltage system and it only recharges the 12 volt battery when the car is on and running. It does so through a step down converter that is regulated by the car's computer, and the computer is run off of 12 volt current. When the 12 Volt battery is dead (or not strong enough to switch a relay), then none of the car's systems turning. That is what charging the LiOn battery does not help, but a brief boost to the 12 volt battery would start the car.