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Guest Message by DevFuse

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CMAX Grill Cover Testing, 2-5 MPG Gain

MPG grill cover test

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245 replies to this topic

#221 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 02:32 PM

Well been there and done it.  We use to live in Flagstaff, AZ and have Daughter and grandson in Phoenix so the worse climb temp wise is coming South on I-17 from Camp Verde for about 10 miles. The only time I have got the overheating buzzer twice with Grill Covers on. This is at the top of white band on Smart temp guage,(246*F) as I was reaching the top of the climb.  This not a problem with lower Grill Cover removed. :)  Just thinking you have a NRG so you could EV the tough climbs so you could use Grill Covers all the time. :)   Do you have a ScanGaugeII or OBDII gauge to measure WT, TFT and AI temps?

 

Paul 

I have one, but I don't use it. I used in on my Escape Hybrid, but just never really felt the need with the Energi.

 

The HVB doesn't last long on highway uphill slopes. I generally shoot for using both ICE and HVB in those situations. But on a long uphill, even 5.6 KWH doesn't last long.









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#222 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 08:59 AM

I have one, but I don't use it. I used in on my Escape Hybrid, but just never really felt the need with the Energi.

 

The HVB doesn't last long on highway uphill slopes. I generally shoot for using both ICE and HVB in those situations. But on a long uphill, even 5.6 KWH doesn't last long.

I still think there is an aerodynamic improvement having Grill Covers on from the testing I did early on. :) I have sold a few Grill Cover Sets to NRG owners.

 

Yesterday I drove around for Lunch (about 12 miles) with OT 90*F, Center and Lower Grill Covers on and speeds of 45-55mph no A/C and averaged Mid 60's mpg.  WT only got up 191*F, not even operating temps of 202*F+ and IT +10*F of OT.  With high OT of around 90*F my average on this tank is hovering around 58mpg.  Last tank I got 56.1mpg, 740mi. so as you can see my Fuelly Average is up to 47.2mpg. :)  You can leave Grill Covers on all year long unless you going on the FWY for a long trip with temps in the +80's or going long uphill climbs. :)

 

The estimated EPA Gas Mileage of 42mpg city/37mpg Hwy/40mpg is a joke if you have Grill Covers on and even if you don't if you drive your CMAX like a Hybrid IMO.

I think now my City mpg is around 70/Hwy mpg 52/ combined mpg 58 IMO :)

 

Paul


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#223 OFFLINE   jackalopetx

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 08:48 AM

I still think there is an aerodynamic improvement having Grill Covers on from the testing I did early on. :) I have sold a few Grill Cover Sets to NRG owners.

 

Yesterday I drove around for Lunch (about 12 miles) with OT 90*F, Center and Lower Grill Covers on and speeds of 45-55mph no A/C and averaged Mid 60's mpg.  WT only got up 191*F, not even operating temps of 202*F+ and IT +10*F of OT.  With high OT of around 90*F my average on this tank is hovering around 58mpg.  Last tank I got 56.1mpg, 740mi. so as you can see my Fuelly Average is up to 47.2mpg. :)  You can leave Grill Covers on all year long unless you going on the FWY for a long trip with temps in the +80's or going long uphill climbs. :)

 

The estimated EPA Gas Mileage of 42mpg city/37mpg Hwy/40mpg is a joke if you have Grill Covers on and even if you don't if you drive your CMAX like a Hybrid IMO.

I think now my City mpg is around 70/Hwy mpg 52/ combined mpg 58 IMO :)

 

Paul

 

Keep in mind you have no idea what the temperatures are under the hood. All you can see is coolant temperature.

 

How do grille covers affect the temperature of the electric motor? The wiring? The computer? How will the longevity of compenents be affected?  Nobody knows 



#224 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 07:00 PM

Keep in mind you have no idea what the temperatures are under the hood. All you can see is coolant temperature.

 

How do grille covers affect the temperature of the electric motor? The wiring? The computer? How will the longevity of compenents be affected?  Nobody knows 

This isn't true, first IT( intake temp ) is air which comes from the ICE compartment into the intake maniforld, which I monitor.  Second the electric motor/generators are inside the CVT which you can monitor with OBDII gauge as well as TFT(trans fluid temp.). I monitor FTF, IT, WT and SOC when I drive.  Thirdly the Inverter has it's own cooling system as well as CVT.  The ICE computer is in the car, so temps shouldn't be a problem their.  BTW I have 135k mi. on my CMAX and I'm getting as good as mileage as I have ever gotten. :)

 

 

Paul


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#225 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 05:36 PM

Grill blocks are a standard hypermiling modification. Lots of happy mod'ers out there. Paul's done his homework, knows where Ford needed the excess cooling capacity (steep grade at high ambient temp). Very little chance of overheating unless you drive long, steep hills in Summer, and then, you just take them off, or pass on them in the first place. 

 

Paul drives to GA to AZ on a regular basis, so he has experience through TX. He's documented lots of good data. albeit in many posts...

 

Have fun,

Frank


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#226 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 11:21 AM

With temps in the 90's*F MPG's keep going up, 57.3mpg last tank on Fuelly and this one I'm up over 60mpg with speeds 35-55 mostly and little A/C. I do have both middle and lower Grill Covers on all the time and rarely get to ICE operating temps.  :)

 

Paul


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#227 OFFLINE   jackalopetx

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 08:19 AM

With temps in the 90's*F MPG's keep going up, 57.3mpg last tank on Fuelly and this one I'm up over 60mpg with speeds 35-55 mostly and little A/C. I do have both middle and lower Grill Covers on all the time and rarely get to ICE operating temps.  :)

 

Paul

 

It's in the 90s and you're hardly running the AC??



#228 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 08:26 AM

It's in the 90s and you're hardly running the AC??

And with the windows down some, not to bad with a good breeze.  :)  The wife doesn't appreciate it to much so we take her car when it's bad.  It makes a big difference on mpg's for short distances.

 

Paul 



#229 OFFLINE   jackalopetx

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 04:24 PM

And with the windows down some, not to bad with a good breeze.  :)  The wife doesn't appreciate it to much so we take her car when it's bad.  It makes a big difference on mpg's for short distances.

 

Paul 

 

I find that AC barely affects my mpg. It helps that it runs off the battery with an electric motor, probably much more efficient than belt driven



#230 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:48 AM

I believe more FORD's are going that way to improve FE. Make sense anyway. My current tank at 350mi.  i'm at 59mpg, one thing that I think has improved my FE is that  of my 7 mile trip back and forth to work and home, four miles is newly paved so the car rolls easier. :) IMO

 

Paul


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#231 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:59 AM

Well I finally filled up today, been about a month, 788 mi., 13.6gal., 58MPG, 68%EV and my Fuelly went up another .1mpg to 47.3MPG, almost 136k mi. total now. :yahoo:

I could have made it to 800 miles easily, didn't fell like pushing it.   :shift:  :)

 

Paul


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#232 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 02:23 PM

Yesterday I got FORD to Cross rotate my tires, didn't feel like doing myself in the heat. I removed wheel covers and rear side wheel well covers so they could take wheels off.  This morning I went to a do it yourself car wash and then off to work. I had preheated the ICE like I normally do, but my mpg's were down 2 mpg anyways. :headscratch:  I hadn't put the wheel covers back on and as it turns out FORD lowered my tire pressure to 42psi from 50psi. This does imply that the wheel covers are worth 2 mpg and I will see when I go home tonight now that I put them back on. :)

 

Paul

Wheel well cover


#233 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 12:49 PM

Well after two days of testing it does look like wheel covers are worth around 2 mpg, but it does point out the importance of SOC and how you use it. 

 

Here are few things that affect FE:

1. For ten miles or less the SOC can have a significant impact.

 2. Sitting at a traffic signal or McD's drive thru for more than 30 sec starts to use up the HVB. 

   a) When waiting for above the SOC of the HVB goes down slower in Park than in Drive. :drop:

   b) If you need to stop more than 30 sec. it is better to turn off the car. :doh:

 3. Remember outside temp has  an effect of 2mpg for every 10*F change, + MPG goes up,- MPG goes down. :shift:

 4. Remember if you use Neutral to coast stepping on the breaks doesn't activate regenerative breaking so you need to put it back to Drive before stepping on the brakes to charge the HVB.

 

 

My first day with everything back on the results were disappointing which I tribute to SOC problems caused by #2a&b and #4.  Yesterday  I had my act together and I got low 60's.  Today going to work I got 56 mpg, normally get 50 mpg, the noticeable difference my SOC when up over night from 44% to 50% so I was able to EV a half a mile before the ICE started on 7 mile trip.  Going to Subway for lunch the HVB had done some maintenance from this morning , SOC went from 37% to 30%, Ouch!  So the ICE started immediately until I stopped for a signal a block away and SOC moved upto 42% and probably 5 mpg. Turned off car while waiting for the light to change about 4 min.later. Another 3/4's of a mile to Subway and got 56 mpg. and 35 mpg. coming back, not good except my SOC went from 30% to 54%. I'm guessing I might get 70 mpg going home. My lunch trip took my tank average from 56.8 to 56.2 mpg, hoping my trip home will get me back over 57 mpg. :)

 

Paul 


Edited by ptjones, 20 October 2018 - 11:53 AM.

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#234 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 10:54 AM

Well I drove home last night and was surprised to get 80 mpg and my average went up to 56.9 mpg. :)  This morning going to work I started out with usual ICE preheat of an hour and a half , WT140*F with 42% SOC and ended up with 47.5% SOC, 51.4 mpg and my average dropped to 56.6 mpg. :sad:  This I consider about average going to work and shows with 42% SOC I get 51.4 mpg and with 50% SOC I got 56 mpg for same  7 mi.trip. The long term will give a better idea on whether FE is improving or not. :)

 

Paul



#235 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:28 AM

...got low 60's. ...got 56 ... get 50 mpg, ...got 56 mpg. and 35 mpg. ...get 70 mpg... from 56.8 to 56.2 mpg... over 57 mpg. 

... get 80 mpg ... up to 56.9 mpg.... 51.4 mpg ... 56.6 mpg. ... get 51.4 mpg ... got 56 mpg ...

 

Here's something to consider. 

 

With some assumptions, usable SOC is about the same energy as 0.01 gal. of gasoline, or 1.28oz. 

(assumes 129MJ/gal., 3.6MJ/kWh, 1.4kWh total HVB capacity, with a 25% average access capacity (40% accessible capacity @ 5/8 use))

 

At high mileages, mileage is very sensitive to small changes in fuel consumption. 

- at 50 MPG (2 gal./100 miles), a 10 mile trip uses 0.2 gal., so the battery is a 1 in 20 effect - 5%

- at 66.6 MPG (1.5 gal./100 miles), it's a 6.7% effect

- at 80 MPG (1.25 gal./100 miles), it's a 8% effect

... it's always 1/10 of the mileage at 10 miles. 

- at 5 miles, the effect is doubled

- at 20 miles, the effect is halved

 

Now, how does your mileage data look?

 

Have fun,

Frank



#236 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 05:50 PM

Here's something to consider. 

 

With some assumptions, usable SOC is about the same energy as 0.01 gal. of gasoline, or 1.28oz. 

(assumes 129MJ/gal., 3.6MJ/kWh, 1.4kWh total HVB capacity, with a 25% average access capacity (40% accessible capacity @ 5/8 use))

 

At high mileages, mileage is very sensitive to small changes in fuel consumption. 

- at 50 MPG (2 gal./100 miles), a 10 mile trip uses 0.2 gal., so the battery is a 1 in 20 effect - 5%

- at 66.6 MPG (1.5 gal./100 miles), it's a 6.7% effect

- at 80 MPG (1.25 gal./100 miles), it's a 8% effect

... it's always 1/10 of the mileage at 10 miles. 

- at 5 miles, the effect is doubled

- at 20 miles, the effect is halved

 

Now, how does your mileage data look?

 

Have fun,

Frank

That's getting a little complicated for me.  Here is what I do know, Smart Gauge reads .1 gal. for 7 miles which means it's not very accurate for short distances. The useful HVB capacity at most is around 30% at full.  This means looking at Smart Gauge HVB going from the top to bottom = 30% of total capacity of HVB.  So with ScanGaugeII it works out to 32% to 62% SOC and I typically only use between 38-48% SOC. I believe the HVB charges the quickest in that range so the ICE runs the shortest amount of time there. The less time the ICE is running the better your MPG's. :)  

My current tank :  221.1 mi., EV 148.1 mi.(67%), 56.8 mpg and 3.89 gal.

Trip to work with no preheat, no neutral coasting and 53% SOC: 7 mi., EV 4.7 mi.,.6 regen., 57.6 mpg, .1 gal and BKS of 100%. :) Not sure what else you are looking for.

BTW I'm having Fun, you too? :)

 

Paul



#237 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 06:25 AM

... Here are few things that affect FE:

1. For ten miles or less the SOC can have a significant impact....

 

That's getting a little complicated for me. ...

I was just putting some numbers to the SOC effect you suggested, for comparison with your observations. I quoted the data so my ranges would make sense. 

 

The numbers work out so that 1/distance is the fractional error - 10 miles = 10%, 100 miles = 1% - due to starting/ending SOC variation. That makes this a 1-sided tolerance; it's +/- 10%. 

 

And no, not having as much fun without a daily commute to give me data. Too much short trip with AC. Hope you both enjoyed Maine, and the trip home!

 

HAve fun,

Frank



#238 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 07:33 AM

Didn't go, spent day at Corning Museum and when went down Hudson looking at Lighthouses. :)  Averaged 24mpg's in F150,  I need to put Grill Covers on it. LOL. :lol2:

 

Paul



#239 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 11:07 AM

Interesting observation this morning, I got 58.7mpg going to work.  My garage was 84*F and I had left the ICE Block and Oil Pan Heaters on for 3.5 Hrs, WT was 163*F, I normally leave it on for 1.5hrs with WT of 130*F.  SOC was 46% with OT of 81*F, I had to get the ICE going right a way because of traffic, so I wasn't able to do a real good job of Hypermiling.  My WT was upto 202*F by the time I got the 7 miles to work, usually I'm around 180*F.  I think this points out the importance of getting WT up to 202*F to improve ICE efficiency. My EV was 4.5mi., Regen .5mi. and BKS 99% and SOC 32%.  It looks like what CMAXer's have been saying about heating up the ICE as quickly as possible is the best FE thing to do, leave the EV to later.  I will try to emphasize this strategy in my future trips to see if there is something to this. :)    


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#240 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 02:34 PM

.,.. My garage was 84*F and I had left the ICE Block and Oil Pan Heaters on for 3.5 Hrs, ...

Block heaters in summer... in the South, no less. No one saw this coming. 


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