Grill Covers shouldn't effect CMAX Warranty

[ptjones]

Going to page 286-7 in owners manual it explains how Fail-Safe Cooling Works.

 

If the engine begins to overheat, the engine coolant temperature gauge will move to the red (hot) are and:The coolant temperature warning light will illuminate.

The service engine soon indicator will illuminate.

If the engine reaches a preset over-temperature condition, the will automatically switch to alternating cylinder operation. Each disabled cylinder acts as an air pump and cools the engine.

When this occurs the vehicle will still operate. However:

The engine power will be limited.

The air conditioning system will be disabled.

 Continued operation will increase the engine temperature and the engine will completely shut down, causing steering and braking effort to increase.

Once the engine temperature cools, the engine can be restarted. Take your vehicle to an authorized dealer as soon as possible to minimize engine damage.

 

The FORD Service Mgr seemed to think a chime would also sound. Bottom line is that in worst case scenario the ICE will protect itself from over heating with the covers on during the summer with AC on.

BTW 40% coolant cools better than 50% coolant according to Manual.

I hope someone can copy those pages and post them.                

Edited February 20, 2013 by ptjones

[plus 3 golfer]

Exactly, I had read this fail-safe cooling before buying the covers and was aware of the ample alerts and actions designed into the cooling system. So, an owner needs to take immediate action if the gauge moves into the red or gets other warning alerts because warranty claims can be denied due to owner negligence with / without grill covers. The owner's manual is available in pdf here.  The applicable detail on fail-safe cooling is below.

 

 

 

What You Should Know About Fail-Safe Cooling

 

If the engine coolant supply is depleted, this feature allows the vehicle to

be driven temporarily before incremental component damage is incurred.

The fail-safe distance depends on ambient temperatures, vehicle load and

terrain.

 

How Fail-Safe Cooling Works

 

If the engine begins to overheat, the engine coolant temperature gauge

will move to the red (hot) area and:

The coolant temperature warning light will illuminate.

The service engine soon indicator will illuminate.

If the engine reaches a preset over-temperature condition, the engine

will automatically switch to alternating cylinder operation. Each disabled

cylinder acts as an air pump and cools the engine.

 

286 Maintenance

2013 C-Max Full Hybrid (34h)

Owners Guide gf, 1st Printing USA (fus)

 

When this occurs the vehicle will still operate. However:

• The engine power will be limited.

• The air conditioning system will be disabled.

Continued operation will increase the engine temperature and the engine

will completely shut down, causing steering and braking effort to

increase.

 

Once the engine temperature cools, the engine can be restarted. Take

your vehicle to an authorized dealer as soon as possible to minimize

engine damage.

 

When Fail-Safe Mode is Activated

 

WARNING: Fail-safe mode is for use during emergencies only.

Operate the vehicle in fail-safe mode only as long as necessary to

bring the vehicle to rest in a safe location and seek immediate repairs.

When in fail-safe mode, the vehicle will have limited power, will not be

able to maintain high-speed operation, and may completely shut down

without warning, potentially losing engine power, power steering assist,

and power brake assist, which may increase the possibility of a crash

resulting in serious injury.

 

WARNING: Never remove the coolant reservoir cap while the

engine is running or hot.

 

You have limited engine power when in the fail-safe mode, so drive the

vehicle with caution. The vehicle will not be able to maintain high-speed

operation and the engine will run rough. Remember that the engine is

capable of completely shutting down automatically to prevent engine

damage, therefore:

1. Pull off the road as soon as safely possible and turn off the engine.

2. Arrange for the vehicle to be taken to an authorized dealer.

3. If this is not possible, wait a short period for the engine to cool.

4. Check the coolant level and replenish if low.

5. Restart the engine and take your vehicle to an authorized dealer.

Note: Driving the vehicle without repairing the engine problem increases

the chance of engine damage. Take your vehicle to an authorized dealer

as soon as possible.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer

[ptjones]

Thanks Ken

[robertlane]

I spoke with a Ford engineer in passing who said that it's not advisable to use these.  I'll try to get more info./specifics later on.

[plus 3 golfer]

I wouldn't expect anything else from Ford since Ford can't control how a customer uses a device where such inappropriate use could result in damage to their vehicle.

 

 

As I indicated in another post on the subject, one needs to assess / manage / mitigate the risk of using such a device. I certainly believe Ford has done a good job of mitigating overheating risk of engine damage with this fail safe mode. It also wouldn't surprise me if Ford has a fail-safe / limp mode for inverter and CVT overheating.

 

 

Will be interested In what you find out.

[valkraider]

Just remember, if you pull in to a Ford dealership with these on it is likely to be noted in your vehicle's permanent file - and be prepared for a fight if something does happen.

 

They can not legally deny a warranty repair unless they can prove the accessory was the cause of the problem.

 

But they CAN make it a nightmare for you every time you want the car fixed. Ford has time and money, how long can you go without your car?

 

Just a warning about accessories and modifications. They can't legally prevent you but it doesn't mean they have to be nice about it...

[ptjones]

The covers don't keep CMAX safety operations from working, that's the main thing.

[ptjones]

I just got this from my FORD Service  Mgr.:

 

 

Fail Safe Cooling

 

A strategy called Fail Sage Cooling is Built into the PCM that will control the engine if it starts to overheat.

 

Stage 1 of the strategy commences if the engine starts to overheat. The CHT sensor transmits a signal to the PCM, which moves the temperature gauge pointer into the red one.

 

I the engine is not switched off and the temperature continues to rise, the Powetrain Check Lamp is illuminated. This indicates to the driver that the engine is approaching critical limits and should be stopped. At this point DTC P1285 is set in the PCM which can be retrieved using a scan tool.

 

Stage 2 of the strategy commences if the lamp and temperature gauge are ignored by the driver

NOTE:. The PCM will start to control the engine be cutting out 2 cylinder and restricting the RPM to below 3,000 RPM. Simultaneously the MIL illuminates.
This indicates that long term engine damage can occur and vehicle emissions will be affected. At this point DTC P1299 is set in the PCM which can be retrieved using a scan tool.

 

Air is drawn into the deactivated cylinders. This helps to control the temperature of the engine internal components. The deactivated cylinders are alternated to allow even cooling of all the cylinders.

 

NOTE: If the driver is using a high percentage of throttle travel (for example, an overtaking maneuver) when the PCM starts engine deactivation (Stage 2), the deactivation will be delayed for 10 seconds.

 

NOTE: After 2-cylinder operation has begun, the engine will not revert to 4-cylinder operation, ever if the temperature should fall, until the ignition is switched off and then on again.

 

NOTE: The MIL can only be extinguished by using a scan tool after the fault has been rectified and the DTC cleared.

 

Stage 3 of the strategy will commence if the engine temperature continues to rise. This results in the engine being totally disabled before major engine damage or seizure occurs. The Power train Check Lamp will begin to flash, indication to the driver that the engine will be switched off after 30 seconds. This allows the driver time to choose a suitable parking place.

 

So I don't see that Grill Covers restrict any of these Stages from happening.

Edited February 21, 2013 by ptjones

[plus 3 golfer]

So, I wonder if this is generic rather than specific to the C-Max.  

 

It does not mention anything about a the coolant temperature warning light (Engine/Motor Coolant Overheat Warning indicator) or the Engine Coolant Overtemperature message both mentioned in the C-Max manual but not in the above from the SM. Both the light and the message appear to be triggered with the gauge going into the red.  I ask this because in the C-Max there is not a dedicated coolant temp gauge visible to the driver at all times.  So, if one does not put the temp gauge in My View, then one would not see the movement to the red zone and not get a warning until the check engine lamp is illuminated (DTC P1285 is set) according to the SM info.

[ptjones]

So, I wonder if this is generic rather than specific to the C-Max.  

 

It does not mention anything about a the coolant temperature warning light (Engine/Motor Coolant Overheat Warning indicator) or the Engine Coolant Overtemperature message both mentioned in the C-Max manual but not in the above from the SM. Both the light and the message appear to be triggered with the gauge going into the red.  I ask this because in the C-Max there is not a dedicated coolant temp gauge visible to the driver at all times.  So, if one does not put the temp gauge in My View, then one would not see the movement to the red zone and not get a warning until the check engine lamp is illuminated (DTC P1285 is set) according to the SM info.

I think it is safe to say that some of the info we get from FORD tech people is totally inaccurate. He said we should get a message on Smart gauge with water temp symbol. When FORD Tech people give miss info on shutters you don't know what to believe without testing everything.    

Edited February 22, 2013 by ptjones

[zhackwyatt]

So, I wonder if this is generic rather than specific to the C-Max.  

 

It does not mention anything about a the coolant temperature warning light (Engine/Motor Coolant Overheat Warning indicator) or the Engine Coolant Overtemperature message both mentioned in the C-Max manual but not in the above from the SM. Both the light and the message appear to be triggered with the gauge going into the red.  I ask this because in the C-Max there is not a dedicated coolant temp gauge visible to the driver at all times.  So, if one does not put the temp gauge in My View, then one would not see the movement to the red zone and not get a warning until the check engine lamp is illuminated (DTC P1285 is set) according to the SM info.

I would assume the messages appear similarly to the parking brake, fuel low, door ajar, etc. messages and just overlay right on top of whatever your doing.

[plus 3 golfer]

I would assume the messages appear similarly to the parking brake, fuel low, door ajar, etc. messages and just overlay right on top of whatever your doing.

Yes, it's in the manual. There's several pages of informational messages.

[zhackwyatt]

Yes, it's in the manual. There's several pages of informational messages.

Oh yeah, I think I misread  your original post and what you were getting at.  Oops.

[ptjones]

I meant to say inaccurate.

 

I think it is safe to say that some of the info we get from FORD tech people is totally inaccurate. He said we should get a message on Smart gauge with water temp symbol. When FORD Tech people give miss info on shutters you don't know what to believe without testing everything.    

I would hate to put the engine into that situation just to find out if it is true.

[plus 3 golfer]

I meant to say inaccurate.

 

I would hate to put the engine into that situation just to find out if it is true.

From everything so far, there appears to be ample warning to the driver should coolant temp get to hot for whatever reason.  There's no compelling reason to do a test.   

 

But just like a low oil pressure alarm, a coolant temperature alarm needs to be taken seriously so as not to damage components.  I don't now how many  times people have ignored low oil pressure alarms only to have their engine seize and thus need their engine rebuilt/replaced under the false assumption that it was a low oil level alarm and they only needed to add a quart or so of oil and thus continued to drive their car.

[ptjones]

It would appear that FORD has stupid covered, they just turn the engine off. :)