I HAVE FOUND THE ILLUSIVE MPG SWEET SPOT!

[Jus-A-CMax]

....what can I say, I am jus plain weird. But not a woose like Adair though....ha...lets see if she finds this post ;)

 

:flyaway:

[Adair]

....what can I say, I am jus plain weird. But not a woose like Adair though....ha...lets see if she finds this post ;)

 

:flyaway:

Busted  :finger:

[Jus-A-CMax]

someone told on me....argh.... :drop:

[Generalbeluga]

OK, so I messed up the spelling, give me a break!   :worship: Now, back to the "sweet spot," I noticed that the more I drive the car, the more it seems to "learn" my driving habits and seems to go into and remain in HIgh ICE more easily.  On a recent trip to Anaheim, I noticed that as I approached 68 MPH, and backed off the gas just a hair, it went into HIgh ICE and stayed there for over two miles.  Prior to this, it would "jump" through High ICE on it's way directly to EV mode.  It seemed I could never handle the throttle soft enough to get it to stay in the High ICE mode.  The Anaheim trip was the first time that the car seemed to want to glide in High ICE for a short time.  Only time will tell if the car continues to "learn" what I want and allow High ICE mode more easily.   :shift:

[salsaguy]

where in Anaheim? as i drive to work there every day. don't have the cmax but would like to know to help my own mpg in my Passat. 

i drive the 5 south and get off the exit where it' the happiest place on earth.

 

OK, so I messed up the spelling, give me a break!   :worship: Now, back to the "sweet spot," I noticed that the more I drive the car, the more it seems to "learn" my driving habits and seems to go into and remain in HIgh ICE more easily.  On a recent trip to Anaheim, I noticed that as I approached 68 MPH, and backed off the gas just a hair, it went into HIgh ICE and stayed there for over two miles.  Prior to this, it would "jump" through High ICE on it's way directly to EV mode.  It seemed I could never handle the throttle soft enough to get it to stay in the High ICE mode.  The Anaheim trip was the first time that the car seemed to want to glide in High ICE for a short time.  Only time will tell if the car continues to "learn" what I want and allow High ICE mode more easily.   :shift:

[MacGyver]

75mph seems to be the sweet spot for gearing/engine load to achieve 40-50+mpg hwy! 

 

I've used "Torque" (free android app) to see a numerical instant MPG, including tenths, i.e., 45.1, 45.9  (which I've asked Ford engineers to add/include in next firmware update, they were surprised there was no numerical instant mpg- guess it was an oversight, and other Fords have it? the focus, etc? anyways they tried to find it in the left hand screen...) and thus ascertain the most efficient speed to go up a 5% grade is 73mph=23mpg, and 75mph seems to be the sweet spot (on level ground) for gearing/engine load to achieve 40-50+mpg hwy. 

 

 

Seems to also be why mpg is higher the faster you go. Within reason. Well, or within air resistance reason. I tested up to 90mph, and wind resistance above 75mph decreases mpg. Unless you were drafting someone else fairly (unsafely) closely (like within 15-20 feet), and that becomes a safety issue and potentially so expensive that a crash would destroy any FE savings. 

 

Granted 75mph is risking your dilithium crystals, (getting a speeding ticket) I prefer to set eco cruise at 65.1mph and let people blow steam out their ears if they get stuck behind me rather than constantly adjusting speed in light L.A. traffic or forego cruise altogether, but given this discovery, I feel more comfortable setting the cruise at 67-68mph or so without fear of ticketing and safe in the knowledge that faster is better/more efficient. Sometimes even 70-75mph if I have a front and back door...

[RaPieR]

75mph seems to be the sweet spot for gearing/engine load to achieve 40-50+mpg hwy! 

 

I've used "Torque" (free android app) to see a numerical instant MPG, including tenths, i.e., 45.1, 45.9  (which I've asked Ford engineers to add/include in next firmware update, they were surprised there was no numerical instant mpg- guess it was an oversight, and other Fords have it? the focus, etc? anyways they tried to find it in the left hand screen...) and thus ascertain the most efficient speed to go up a 5% grade is 73mph=23mpg, and 75mph seems to be the sweet spot (on level ground) for gearing/engine load to achieve 40-50+mpg hwy. 

 

 

Seems to also be why mpg is higher the faster you go. Within reason. Well, or within air resistance reason. I tested up to 90mph, and wind resistance above 75mph decreases mpg. Unless you were drafting someone else fairly (unsafely) closely (like within 15-20 feet), and that becomes a safety issue and potentially so expensive that a crash would destroy any FE savings. 

 

Granted 75mph is risking your dilithium crystals, (getting a speeding ticket) I prefer to set eco cruise at 65.1mph and let people blow steam out their ears if they get stuck behind me rather than constantly adjusting speed in light L.A. traffic or forego cruise altogether, but given this discovery, I feel more comfortable setting the cruise at 67-68mph or so without fear of ticketing and safe in the knowledge that faster is better/more efficient. Sometimes even 70-75mph if I have a front and back door...

This is new to me, I would expect the C-Max's drag to be heavily hindering mileage at this speed.  I will give 75 a try on my next road trip but so far from my previous trips anything above 66-68MPH drops mileage considerably.

[Edsel]

This is new to me, I would expect the C-Max's drag to be heavily hindering mileage at this speed.  I will give 75 a try on my next road trip but so far from my previous trips anything above 66-68MPH drops mileage considerably.

 

Same here.

[PapaJ]

Same here.

We're taking a trip to FL next month, if you don't drive at least 70 on I-75 you get blown off the road -- most drivers running 80+ MPH.

 

I plan to to Eco-cruise at 75 MPH, will report FE results (about 700 miles interstate). Hope John Law don't get me.

:judge:

[BIG ROCCO]

I used to drive really fast in my younger days, but now I try to keep my speed, on any car I drive, between 65 and 70 MPH on the highway, in zones from 60 MPH speed limit to 75 MPH speed limit.  easier on the car, easier for me, less tickets.

[ptjones]

We're taking a trip to FL next month, if you don't drive at least 70 on I-75 you get blown off the road -- most drivers running 80+ MPH.

 

I plan to to Eco-cruise at 75 MPH, will report FE results (about 700 miles interstate). Hope John Law don't get me.

:judge:

Funny you should say that I live in Atlanta area and will be going to FL soon. I usually follow truckers going 65mph on I75 and their are stretches of 60mph for construction. A lot less stress and good MPG's. :) Paul Edited September 26, 2013 by ptjones

[ScubaDadMiami]

I just finished driving the trip you describe.  Went from Miami to the mountains of western North Carolina via I-75, passing Atlanta.  On the way home, I went to Savannah, and then I took I-95 southbound back to Miami.

 

I used Eco Cruise most of the way.  I found that I was getting around 47 mpg at 65 mph, 45 mpg at 70 mph, 40 at 75 mph, 36 mpg at about 77 mph.

Edited September 26, 2013 by ScubaDadMiami

[MacGyver]

I just finished driving the trip you describe.  Went from Miami to the mountains of western North Carolina via I-75, passing Atlanta.  On the way home, I went to Savannah, and then I took I-95 southbound back to Miami.

 

I used Eco Cruise most of the way.  I found that I was getting around 47 mpg at 65 mph, 45 mpg at 70 mph, 40 at 75 mph, 36 mpg at about 77 mph.

 

Interesting, was it mostly flat? I'm wondering what the average for the flats would be...

 

And an update to the torque experimentation; the optimum speed may ACTUALLY (at least for my car) be 73mph, the speedo will read 75mph while the Torque GPS speed and OBD sensor speeds consistently read about 2 mph SLOWER than the speedo.

 

Will eventually have AAA test the car and tell me for sure, but it would make more sense to have the optimum gearing between 70-73mph, 75mph is a bit into redline-ticket-bait-dilithium-crystal-cracking territory.

 

Which would mean adjusting my estimation of optimum uphill speed to 70-71mph for about 20-22mpg, better than 65mph=18-19mpg.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Interesting, was it mostly flat? I'm wondering what the average for the flats would be...

 

That's averaging for travel in both directions, which--other than in the mountains--is a slight incline going north, and a slight decline going south.

[Jus-A-CMax]

SDM & others. R u guys "blipping" the eco or r u letting it cycle between the EV & recharge ICD modes automatically?

 

Macgyver = 65 mph up hill is tough to swallow personally, given my last experience climbing the Sherwin grade which is a long a$$ haul up, north of Bishop,CA  really KILLED my drive MPG numbers by a lot vs 2 bar uphill and holding the acceleration there. Anyone else can back up and repeat Macgyver's finding?

[MacGyver]

SDM & others. R u guys "blipping" the eco or r u letting it cycle between the EV & recharge ICD modes automatically?

 

Macgyver = 65 mph up hill is tough to swallow personally, given my last experience climbing the Sherwin grade which is a long a$$ haul up, north of Bishop,CA  really KILLED my drive MPG numbers by a lot vs 2 bar uphill and holding the acceleration there. Anyone else can back up and repeat Macgyver's finding?

 

I know, I'm considering changing my forum handle to "Captain Counterintuitive"- all I can say is that's what Torque is telling me as far as instant MPG, just like how 65mph is more efficient than 55, 70-73mph is the highest gearing (miles per piston bang) and thus the most efficient speed.

 

I'll try "2 bar accel" vs. 70-73mph to see which is more efficient, but I can't help thinking that load is not going to be as important as the final gearing and work accomplished (distance traveled) in relation to how much gas spent,

 

This convo has given me an idea; I'm going to activate a "fuel used" or "gas flow rate" on Torque to see what gas consumption is at 50% load, 75% etc, vs RPMs, speed, etc.

 

How steep is sherwin grade? Never mind, googled it; Old Sherwin climbs about 3,500' and has a few somewhat steep sections (up to 10%). another result says 6%, which I would say is a bit more than uphill to tujunga. Any grade like that is at least gonna cut MPG in half, for me, I just try to figure out what the most efficient speed is to miniimize that grade's impact on average MPG.

 

In other counterintuitive news, I finally had the air shield on the bottom of the car removed before a trip to vegas, (because it was partially causing an annoying vibration in the floorboard under my feet, which is still present though to a lesser degree due to the lightweight construction of the C-max I guess) and MPG seems to be the same or slightly improved.

 

See the mythbusters testing of "tailgate up or down for maximum MPG" for a more detailed explanation of why, but quickly; the air pocket/bubble created by the bottom of the car is as or more slippery than the air shield.

 

needs more testing, (wife drove part of the way, ruining mpg by driving like a maniac as if every second of vegas time were precious or maybe they're going to close vegas or something, so vegas trip average is not to be trusted as accurate,) but I've seen my average increase, and have not noticed a drop in MPG, though I have noticed less vibration.

Edited December 20, 2013 by MacGyver

[Jus-A-CMax]

Tujunga is nothing compared to Sherwin. The 14 between Sand Canyon and Acton is more slope than Tujunga also but I only hit that on the way out to Mammoth usually. Yeah, even my wifey KILLS my MPG as well.

 

Thanks Macgyver...not trying to give u a hard time, its jus me....

 

 

"Blip" question is still open to SDM and others...

 

ps if u want a name change, we can do that too...lol... ;)

Edited December 20, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[MacGyver]

Tujunga is nothing compared to Sherwin. The 14 between Sand Canyon and Acton is more slope than Tujunga also but I only hit that on the way out to Mammoth usually. Yeah, even my wifey KILLS my MPG as well.

 

Thanks Macgyver...not trying to give u a hard time, its jus me....

 

 

"Blip" question is still open to SDM and others...

 

ps if u want a name change, we can do that too...lol... ;)

 

I didn't take it that way, one of the crucial values of this forum is to ask pertinent questions others might not have thought of in our search for knowledge and truth.

 

I think I'll stick with Macgyver, just wanted to point out I realize how crazy some of the stuff I'm saying sounds and wouldn't say it without a reason...

 

I'm pretty good at keeping my ego out of our discussions, I'm still not perfect but I'd say I'm about the last person you need to worry about hurting their feelings by saying I might be wrong about my approach to hypermiling- I've honestly approached the question and tried to keep my ego out of it even while I'm happy to be on the cutting edge of discovering the C-max's performance envelope.

 

On the question of premium vs. regular gas, I'm on the side of regular, though I keep an open mind, the atkinson engine might work differently, though it would take some doing to convince me that a basically incorrect (premium) fuel mixture would perform better than regular, given that it would be starved for oxygen to efficiently combust.

 

And as far as my contention that 70-73mph is the most efficient gearing, I'd abandon it in a heartbeat if it were shown to be wrong. I've already revised it from my original observation of 75mph once I realized that in Torque, I have readouts for both GPS and OBD speeds, and they mostly agree with each other, (about 0.1 to 0.5mph variance) while hovering about 2-3mph slower than the cars speedo. Or the car might be right and those are wrong. And the Torque instant MPG reading might be completely wrong, or off 5-10% or whatever.

 

So when I mention my wife destroying the average, that's not equivocating or making excuses, it's data, that tells the reader just how to weight the report that MPG seems to be unaffected and possibly improved by removal of the air shield.

 

So have no apprehension about "disagreeing" with me, I don't see it that way, to me, it's a lively discussion and what I came here for.

 

Plus the fact that you're getting better average MPG than mine- (mine hovers around 40-41 high of 43 recently, yours is what, 46 or more? Plus, my route is always changing, and sometimes I drive like a maniac too, sometimes you have to in L.A. since no one will let you change lanes if you put your blinker on) hard to argue with numbers, you're doing something right... we're all just trying to work together to figure out how to get the best MPG we can!

Edited December 20, 2013 by MacGyver

[Jus-A-CMax]

You're good Macgyver, glad you're pumping this info to share with the rest of us, much appreciated. I'll put it to the test when I do my runs. Theres 3 of us on this forum whos roughly in the same area: GaryM, you and me. Beauty about that is that we say this XXX freeway, or Conejo grade, we know exactly how that road goes....except Sherwin grade ;)

Edited December 20, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[ptjones]

For my testing I used a 14.4mi Fwy test loop so I could control the variables as much as possible when testing. It was the only way to get credible results.

Paul

[ScubaDadMiami]

SDM & others. R u guys "blipping" the eco or r u letting it cycle between the EV & recharge ICD modes automatically?

I just use Eco Cruise Control without blipping.  Too much work for long highway runs.

[MacGyver]

More data; I'll be having the bottom airshield reinstalled on my C-max thursday, it seems to have shaved some efficiency off the top end- 65-73mph now yields no more than 40mpg.

 

I would see some spikes to 45, even 47mpg, but not the 50-60 that I got before.

 

Wanted to alert everyone asap not to repeat my experiment, or at least have the dealership retain their airshield for possible reinstallation... sorry for any inconvenience!

 

The vibration I was also trying to eliminate is still present, thought to a lesser extent, so it makes sense to have the better mpg and seek another solution for that, maybe have some thicker steel welded to the bottom of the drivers floorboard....