Has anyone installed an amplifier in their C-Max?

[HotPotato]

Still could use a picture, particularly of the connections to the amp/sync module.  All I want is a clean signal to send to a pre-amped pc subwoofer.  Pics of the bit Ten D would be nice, too.  Really want to add some bass, but not willing to really cut and chop the electronics of this car if it isn't worth it.

 

I don't have a pic of the Sync module; I think the shop ended up pulling the signal from the speaker wires downstream of it. But I can show you the BitTen and Alpine amp. 

 

Under the passenger seat is a hidden storage well, into which is tucked a black bag containing the tire inflator and repair goo that Ford gives us in lieu of a spare tire. Move that bag to the hidden storage well under the rear cargo floor. The BitTen, with connectors installed, is almost exactly the size of that underseat well, so you can install it there. The Alpine amp, a tiny digital amp designed to fit behind the dash of a car, is small enough that it can simply Velcro-mount on top of the BitTen. The total height of processor and amp thus installed is flush with the car's floor height. Chuck the floormat back on, and no one can tell you have gear installed.

 

Note also that there are Aux-In RCA jacks on the BitTen. If you really hate the processing and EQ of the Sync module, and are willing to give up Sync control of your iPod or other external audio source, you can simply plug your iPod directly into the Bit Ten. However, if the Bit Ten is set up to compensate for all the other sources, this would presumably screw up the sound of your aux-in which needs no such compensation...and I don't recall but I think you might have to buy the external controller to switch to that input...so I just run everything through Sync.

 

When I pulled out the factory midwoofers, it was interesting to give them a good look. They may be paper, but they appear to have rubber surrounds, oversize cones, 25-watt power ratings, and rock-solid mounts. And the tweeters appear to be identical between the base and Sony systems. The upshot of all this, is that your best value might be to get a high-quality low-size digital 25Wx4 amp, turn the factory radio's treble all the way up, and call it a day. With sufficient power driving those factory oversize speakers in their airtight mounts, you might not even want a sub anymore (unless you're playing rap). That was essentially my shop's advice in the first place, and I should have followed it. I love the detail of my JL Audio speakers and the control of the BitTen, but the improvement doesn't even remotely justify the cost (unless you're rolling in dough).

 

[11StiLimited]

What about a speaker level line converter? It would seem way easier to use the speaker level line converter (output to RCA) and go with that.

 

A) Does using one of these change the power to, or eliminate the speakers tapped, when used?

B) Is the speaker level output analog, thus negating the need for the BitTen to convert the digital signal from the SYNC module?

[HotPotato]

The signal going into the Bit Ten is analog (at least in my case).

 

Doing a straight LOC doesn't offer you the ability to change the equalization curves; the Bit Ten does. But if you stick with your factory speakers, which your system is factory-EQ'd for, you might be OK without EQ.

[11StiLimited]

All I am looking for is a signal to supply to an amped sub (like, but not a, Bazzoka tube).  I am not changing the original cabin speakers.

 

I was going to try this item:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_161LC2I/AudioControl-LC2i.html?tp=2001#details-tab

 

As for the 12v power for the amp/sub, I was going to tap the rear 12v (always-on) plug in the trunk, using the remote wire on the LC-2i to control on/off operation of the amp/sub (similar to classic always-on direct battery connections).

 

Does this setup sound correct?  Have I thought this through wrong?

 

I miss old stereos.  It was so much easier when swapping out the HU was an option.

[HotPotato]

I assume that you have planned some kind of pass-thru arrangement rather than terminating in the LOC and losing your rear speakers, and that you've verified that the fuse rating on that rear 12V line can handle the draw of your amp. If so, sounds reasonable to me!...but I'm not a car audio professional.

 

All this sub talk has me thinking, I'm wondering if I should try an underseat sub, or a low-profile down-firing sub in the cargo area, or leave well enough alone. There are a bunch of disadvantages to an underseat sub but one big advantage: there's probably no potential time alignment problem. (The Bit Ten can compensate for that using manual settings, but again I'm no professional.)

[mtb9153]

I have the premium sound system in my CMax and I do know that there is a black external amp mounted underneath the rear seat.  Maybe a bi-amp for the subwoofer?  I don't know been years since I dealt with aftermarket car stereo stuff.

[11StiLimited]

I assume that you have planned some kind of pass-thru arrangement rather than terminating in the LOC and losing your rear speakers, and that you've verified that the fuse rating on that rear 12V line can handle the draw of your amp. If so, sounds reasonable to me!...but I'm not a car audio professional.

 

All this sub talk has me thinking, I'm wondering if I should try an underseat sub, or a low-profile down-firing sub in the cargo area, or leave well enough alone. There are a bunch of disadvantages to an underseat sub but one big advantage: there's probably no potential time alignment problem. (The Bit Ten can compensate for that using manual settings, but again I'm no professional.)

The link I provided shows a RCA bass out and a RCA main out.  If piggy-backing the rear speakers cut them off, or otherwise destroys volume and/or quality, I was going to reattach the rear speakers using the main RCA outs and a RCA to speaker converter.  As for the amp, it uses a 7.5 amp fuse, pretty low, and the amp is only 90w RMS, so power should well clear the 150w limit on the 12v socket.

 

As soon as Uncle Sam makes good on my amended tax return, I think I am going to try playing with this setup.  Worst case scenario, I learn and share the experience, and eBay the parts to cut my losses, lol.

[HotPotato]

OK, I went for it...got the Crutchfield Sound Ordnance B-8PTD underseat amplified subwoofer and put it under the driver's seat. This is the new digitally amplified version of the sub mentioned by kidonedatone, and it is currently on sale for the very low price of $160.

 

It is also unbeliveably small. There is less volume in the enclosure than in a home computer's bogus "subwoofer." The enclosure is so small that it fits sideways and barely sticks out -- and if you remove the underseat air duct so that you can push it against the ridge at the back edge of the in-floor storage compartment cover, it sticks out even less. That said, either way, this unit will cost your rear passenger all of their underseat toe room.

 

We attached it to the storage compartment cover with Velcro and left enough slack in the wires that you can simply slide the cover back, with the sub still attached, for easy access to tweak the controls.

 

Which is good, because that's the first thing I had to do. Despite the fact the Bit Ten has a dedicated subwoofer RCA-out, the sub sounded awful: very loud boomy midbass, but no deep bass. So I made sure the amp gain wasn't set too high, and that the crossover point was turned down as low as it would go. I also looked at the phase control sideways, but since the sound wasn't thin (just lumpy), I left it alone (for now). That's all the controls one has on the unit, and it still sounded not so good, so if you don't have a sound processor, this is the point at which you'd be boxing it up and sending it back.

 

However, I do have a processor (the Bit Ten). So I fired up my laptop, connected it to the Bit Ten, opened the software, and got cracking. First I activated a high-pass filter at 80Hz to the full-range speakers. Then I activated a low-pass filter at 80Hz to the sub. Then I popped my Bit Ten white noise CD, popped my iphone in its mount and fired up the free JL Audio iphone app's spectrum analyzer, and, with the sub remote turned to minimum, tweaked the equalizer to get more response at 60, 50 and 40Hz (anything below that is out of range of this sub). I then turned up the sub remote one detent at a time to find the point at which the active noise cancellation causes a whomp-whomp (it's a quarter-turn up from minimum in my case) and backed it off a little from there. Finalized the settings and took a long drive with some of my favorite music (Hooverphonic, Silversun PIckups) to see how it sounded. Quite nice, to my shock. I think I'll go in again and kick 100Hz and 80Hz up just a hair -- the Bit Ten's Linkwitz filters seem to give more of a rolloff than a cutoff -- but yeah, thus configured, this little unit actually works to provide a nice warm bass fill. You wouldn't use it for rap or anything, but it can ensure that a fairly low bass line doesn't disappear in the mix. And does so WITHOUT using up cargo space, having a box visible to thieves (I kinda live in the hood, and I usually have the cargo cover off and rear seats down due to my dog), or endangering our very fragile 12 volt system by sucking a ton of juice (the fuse is just 15 amps).

 

I'm still debating if I'll keep this puppy though. For the same money, I could have a standalone amp and a Pioneer flat down-firing sub in the cargo area. For a little more, I could swap the Pioneer for a side-firing JL Audio MicroSub (a small ported box with a 6.5" or 8" driver) or Alpine's Type R knockoff of it. Any of those three options involve giving up some cargo space and risking equipment visibility (a little less so with the Pioneer), but they would surely play louder and deeper. Thing is, if even an incredibly small sealed underseat sub can trigger noise cancellation interference turned up less than a quarter of the way, I'm not sure how much extra oomph I could really take advantage of anyhow...

[HotPotato]

Here are pix, with the floormat on and off. Not quite as stealthy as one might like -- pretty sure there's more space under the passenger seat, but I was already using that space for the full-range amp etc.

[HotPotato]

The underseat sub wasn't cutting it for me... it was more of a midwoofer than a subwoofer. I returned it and replaced it with an amp and boxed sub. The amp went under the seat where the underseat sub was before. The boxed sub went in the cargo area. Both are special for different reasons.

 

For an amp, you want something with enough power to run the sub but not enough to run down our puny battery. The smart move here would be another Class D digital amp -- that ensures smallest size and most efficient energy use, and for about $255 you can get a Kicker or MTX amp that does the job. Instead, for just $55 (yes, $200 less) I got a Boss R1100M amp. It's not digital (class AB instead of class D), so it's not as efficient, but with just a 30-amp fuse it's not going to kill the battery, and with 110-watt real-world output it's plenty to drive a relatively efficient sub. This amp is cheap, durable, nice-sounding and well-reviewed -- and comes with a remote bass level control for on-the-fly tweaking, just like the underseat sub did.

 

For a sub, you want something that's not going to kill our limited cargo space. A tube is out because you can't stack cargo on it. A big box is out because it uses up your cargo space. For me, a vertical side-mount box like a JL Audio MicroSub or Alpine's 8" Type R boxed ported sub was a possibility, but was still going to be pretty obvious to thieves walking by if the cargo cover was off -- and I have a dog, so mine often is off. So instead I went with a Pioneer TS-SWX251 10" flat subwoofer, which comes in a down-firing sealed enclosure. Pioneer's trick new technology eliminates most of the depth of the sub, giving you a low flat box that virtually disappears from view in the cargo area, and you can stack cargo on it. The box's  height is just shy of the height of the side cubby; its depth is just shy of the depth from the hatch to the plastic jut-out behind the rear seats; its width is just shy of the width of the smaller rear seat. In other words, it may as well have been custom-designed for this car.

 

So how does this setup sound? In a word, amazing. This sub is warm, full, smooth, not peaky. It plays beautifully right down to 20Hz. I have it crossed over at 80 Hz, with a touch of boost at 20 and 25 Hz so I can hear the very lowest frequencies without having to goose the volume. The amp's gain came from the factory set to about 2/3, and hearing no distortion there I just left it there. Setting on the bass remote ranges from 1/4 to 1/3 depending on source before you risk whump-whump from the factory noise cancellation system.

 

So. If you have the dough to do as I did, go for it -- the system finally sounds as amazing as I always knew it could. 

[HotPotato]

Here are pics of the new installation.

 

[BIG ROCCO]

I have tried to "improve" on certain things in my cars over the years and sometimes ended up worse than where I started and wished I had just left it alone.  I give you a lot of credit for perserverance, and I'm very happy for you that it paid off with the desired result.

 

Congratulations!

[HotPotato]

Wasted Spent some time on the DIY car audio blogs today, and after some fiddling with my system I learned that... a) crossovers are a complicated topic but the car audio snobs can be wrong about how to set them; b) apparently I could have gotten better versions of my components for nearly the same money, and c) like computer geeks say, garbage in = garbage out; the quality of your source files really matters.  

 

A) Crossovers. The Bit Ten has digital crossovers you can set as desired. The amp I used for the sub has its own low-pass crossover that you can set as desired, or switch off and run the amp full-range. Despite the fact I had set the Bit Ten's low-pass and high-pass crossovers, initially I just left the amp's low-pass crossover switched on too anyway and at the factory setting (which is, I'm guessing, about 100Hz). But some time on the DIY car audio blog convinced me I should either turn off the amp's crossover, or turn it to the highest frequency. Well, I tried their advice, and it's terrible advice. Having a second crossover operating at the amp itself surely seems redundant and needless, but the fact is, things sounded awful when running the sub amp full-range...and plus, the sub remote level control is disabled if you run the sub amp full-range. So I tried their other idea, leaving the sub amp's crossover on but switched to the highest available frequency. Again: crap sound; in this case because the sub remote appeared to now be centered at a higher frequency, and boosted unwanted midbass when turned up. The car audio blog also advised leaving a gap between the low-pass crossover setting for the sub (80 Hz) and the high-pass crossover setting for the midbass drivers (100Hz), because with both rolling off gradually you could get a bump in the frequencies between. But it appears this is unnecessary with the BitTen because the BitTen offers the specific crossover type that avoids this problem. So, three strikes; my task eventually became trying to get it back just like it was to begin with, where it sounded better..

 

B) Components. Although wildly superior to any underseat sub, the 10" sub does have a little more trouble reproducing the lowest octave than a 12" might. Not a big deal as you can EQ the lowest frequencies to compensate, as I did...but properly designed, a bigger sub can play lower with less power, and it turns out that Pioneer offers this boxed flat-sub product in 12" too, which I didn't realize. (Not sure if you have to buy it as two components, the 12" flat sub and its matched box, or can buy it pre-assembled as you can with the 10".) It also turns out that Boss makes digital sub amps too, and stepping up to one would only cost about $30 more through Amazon. Now I'm kind of tempted to try going digital and running the bigger sub. Heaven help us,

 

C) Source material. Audio snobs sniff that the limitations of your source material will become apparent as your stereo becomes better, and I'm sort of shocked to say I think I have reached that point -- although I listen mostly to consumer-encoded MP3 and M4A files from bands on modestly-financed indie labels, so mine is a low bar! I was listening to my favorite Doves album (ripped from CD on iTunes) feeling bummed that it didn't sound that great, and then listening to my beloved Of Monsters and Men album (purchased digitally from iTunes) feeling bummed that it didn't sound better...and then I switched to Beck's Sea Change, and it sounded like God himself were running the stereo...just amazing. A big ol' recording budget and high-quality digital encoding really do make a giant difference, if your stereo's good enough to demonstrate it.

[sekanoj]

Looking at installing a clarion xc 1410 in my cmax. Wondered if you had a picture available of the sync module you ran your amp off of as well as info on how to remove the glovebox to access it?

[HotPotato]

Looking at installing a clarion xc 1410 in my cmax. Wondered if you had a picture available of the sync module you ran your amp off of as well as info on how to remove the glovebox to access it?

 

Hi, sekanoj. Sorry, I don't have pix or instructions on that---the shop made those connections for me.

 

The Clarion amp is very similar to the Alpine that I have; it's a neat concept.

[sac c-max]

WOW, I've only had my c-max for a week and I'm scrambling to upgrade the weak factory sound. If I add a small amp under the seat. Do you think this would be the smartest budget upgrade

[HotPotato]

WOW, I've only had my c-max for a week and I'm scrambling to upgrade the weak factory sound. If I add a small amp under the seat. Do you think this would be the smartest budget upgrade

Yes. Get a Kicker digital 25Wx4 amp, turn the factory radio's treble up, and enjoy.

[kruzntaco]

I have an amp and subs from an old setup I had in a former car to install in my C-Max. Since the C-Max is set up very differently from my other vehicle and I am definitely not an expert in this field, I thought I would see if anybody here had any advice.

 

Will adding these items void the warranty in any way? I didn't see anything written, but thought I would ask anyways. Also, where is the best place to hook up the amp, to the battery in the back, fuse box, or tap into something else.

 

I am ready to install but I don't want to screw anything up in the process.

[HotPotato]

I have an amp and subs from an old setup I had in a former car to install in my C-Max. Since the C-Max is set up very differently from my other vehicle and I am definitely not an expert in this field, I thought I would see if anybody here had any advice.

 

Will adding these items void the warranty in any way? I didn't see anything written, but thought I would ask anyways. Also, where is the best place to hook up the amp, to the battery in the back, fuse box, or tap into something else.

 

I am ready to install but I don't want to screw anything up in the process.

 

I believe they can't void your warranty unless they can prove that the equipment was the direct cause of a failure. So I wouldn't sweat it.

 

Connect the amp to the battery in back--easy to do. Obviously include inline fuses.

 

I will say this though -- make sure you're not pulling a ton of power with your amp(s), since the C-Max's 12V battery is marginal to begin with. I'm running an ultra-efficient digital 4-channel amp plus a modestly sized single sub amp, and honestly at some point I should replace the sub amp with a more efficient digital model.

[lamia1]

Agree about the warranty.  But I would suggest you not take advise on car audio from this forum. As you can see, Hotpotato has spent a huge sum of money based upon a lack of knowledge.  You would be better served to find a good car audio store or two and get their advise.  The alternative is to read a ton on the car audio forums to learn, but it's a steep learning curve and not worth it unless you are really into building your own system.  I managed a car audio store out of college and have built many systems for my own cars.  Yes, they all sounded good in the end but often were just too much trouble for the result.  For example, HotPotato says he hears his sub down to 20hz. That's physically impossible due to the size of the wavelength.  I can't hear it in my home, at best, I can hear down to maybe 30hz, but with a system playing down to just 40hz you would have great sound.  You also can't hope to equalize a system by ear-you need a spectrum analyzer to set to a proper curve. From there you can tweak it.   I have the Sony upgraded system, and with 100watts it has sufficient  power for normal listening.  It needs a sub and an equalizer to sound good. The speakers are decent enough.  If there is a way to obtain low level signals to add these, you would have very good sound w/o spending a lot of unnecessary money.  Just my opinion. 

[HotPotato]

Agree about the warranty.  But I would suggest you not take advise on car audio from this forum. As you can see, Hotpotato has spent a huge sum of money based upon a lack of knowledge.  You would be better served to find a good car audio store or two and get their advise.  The alternative is to read a ton on the car audio forums to learn, but it's a steep learning curve and not worth it unless you are really into building your own system.  I managed a car audio store out of college and have built many systems for my own cars.  Yes, they all sounded good in the end but often were just too much trouble for the result.  For example, HotPotato says he hears his sub down to 20hz. That's physically impossible due to the size of the wavelength.  I can't hear it in my home, at best, I can hear down to maybe 30hz, but with a system playing down to just 40hz you would have great sound.  You also can't hope to equalize a system by ear-you need a spectrum analyzer to set to a proper curve. From there you can tweak it.   I have the Sony upgraded system, and with 100watts it has sufficient  power for normal listening.  It needs a sub and an equalizer to sound good. The speakers are decent enough.  If there is a way to obtain low level signals to add these, you would have very good sound w/o spending a lot of unnecessary money.  Just my opinion. 

 

I had several car audio shops advising me and one working on the car throughout, I read all the usual boards, and like you I've built systems for previous cars over the years with varying degrees of satisfaction. Nobody had ever seen or worked on this car before at the time, which certainly didn't help. 

 

You already have the Sony, so you already have a 100W amp. I do not, and the other people commenting on here do not, which is why for them the first step would be to get a decent quality modestly powered digital amp. From there, the next step is a sub. From there, if you have the Sony and hence the better speakers, you're probably done, but if you don't have the Sony, you may decide you want better speakers, and that will mean re-EQing the system.

 

I don't recall saying I "hear" the sub down to 20Hz, but something is playing down that low, because it shows up on the spectrum analyzer when a full-spectrum white noise track is played. Obviously you shouldn't try to re-EQ your system without a spectrum analyzer; I thought I was clear that I'm using one.

[snuix114]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm hoping to hear from anyone who has been running an aftermarket setup for a little while now. I'm considering a setup pretty close to HotPotato's:

 

- AudioControl LC7i

- Alpine KTP-445U

- (FRONT) Alpine SPS-610C 6-1/2" Component

- (REAR) Kicker 41KSC654

- Boss R1100M amp

- Pioneer TS-SWX251 10" Flat Sub / or the new model: PIONEER TSSWX2502 though it wants 300 watts instead of 200

 

Has anyone had any issues putting this much power on the battery / electrical system? Is there anything I should consider to mitigate this or any other issues you've experienced? Is there anything I'm missing or doing wrong with this setup?

 

Thanks so much!