powerstroke cowboy Posted February 4, 2023 Report Share Posted February 4, 2023 Hello all, This is my second post to the forum, so please go easy on me. The car is not a c-max it's an FFH. Here's the deal, the car will drive In all electric mode. But the ICE will not start. It does not even try to crank. The 12v battery is new and fully charged. The HVB is fully charged as well. This is not an energi, it's a normal hybrid. The code I have is F00317. Look at the picture to verify the code and HVB status. Any and all help would be great! Thanks! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr08 Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 (edited) From what I'm seeing, this error code indicates the ABS module saw above 17v power supplied. It's also listed as a historic code in your picture so likely temporary and if it was ever jump started, the process could have triggered this code. U3003:17 - Ford Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Definition, Causes and Diagnosis (dtcdecode.com) Related to this code, you could try clearing it out and try getting the ICE to start again. May also be worth verifying what voltage you are getting on the 12v/LV side to make sure it is in spec. The highest that you should be seeing while running is up in the high 14s. Anything 15 or higher is bad. On the opposite end, nothing below 12v should be seen while running. By 'running' I mean when the vehicle is on/Ready to Drive. The ICE does not need to be running to see active charging voltages. Do you have any other codes? CEL light on? Wrench light? If the ICE is legitimately not wanting to run, the vehicle should have more telltales going on telling you something is wrong and why. Also being a hybrid and seeing the battery gauge up that high is indicating the ICE has been supplying power somewhere to recharge it. If you're just relying on the assumption the ICE will start when you turn the key/press the start button, it likely won't do so at such a high charge level. As a quick test, with the vehicle 'on' and in Ready to Drive mode: While remaining in Park, press the accelerator down and hold it (doesn't need to be all the way to the floor but does need to be depressed to some degree). This should force the ICE to start and run if all is operating well. That's about all that I can input on this without more details such as any additional codes, lights on the dash, and especially more detailed info on how the vehicle is behaving when you try or expect the ICE to run. Edited February 6, 2023 by cr08 powerstroke cowboy and jzchen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 2/6/2023 at 1:05 PM, cr08 said: From what I'm seeing, this error code indicates the ABS module saw above 17v power supplied. It's also listed as a historic code in your picture so likely temporary and if it was ever jump started, the process could have triggered this code. U3003:17 - Ford Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Definition, Causes and Diagnosis (dtcdecode.com) Related to this code, you could try clearing it out and try getting the ICE to start again. May also be worth verifying what voltage you are getting on the 12v/LV side to make sure it is in spec. The highest that you should be seeing while running is up in the high 14s. Anything 15 or higher is bad. On the opposite end, nothing below 12v should be seen while running. By 'running' I mean when the vehicle is on/Ready to Drive. The ICE does not need to be running to see active charging voltages. Do you have any other codes? CEL light on? Wrench light? If the ICE is legitimately not wanting to run, the vehicle should have more telltales going on telling you something is wrong and why. Also being a hybrid and seeing the battery gauge up that high is indicating the ICE has been supplying power somewhere to recharge it. If you're just relying on the assumption the ICE will start when you turn the key/press the start button, it likely won't do so at such a high charge level. As a quick test, with the vehicle 'on' and in Ready to Drive mode: While remaining in Park, press the accelerator down and hold it (doesn't need to be all the way to the floor but does need to be depressed to some degree). This should force the ICE to start and run if all is operating well. That's about all that I can input on this without more details such as any additional codes, lights on the dash, and especially more detailed info on how the vehicle is behaving when you try or expect the ICE to run. Thank you for the very detailed post and for taking the time out of your day to do so. I appreciate it a lot!! I contacted Ford about the code "F00317" and the lady I talked to said it came up as " Rough Road Hardware Not Present". So I looked it up and the code for that is "P0317". So that left me with some questions. I did learn that it could be a fault crankshaft position sensor. I need to test the one on the car. Now on to what you suggested. I have checked the voltage as you suggested and I am seeing 13.8 volts with the key on. That looks good there. We hooked a laptop up to the car and got two codes. "U0100" and U0293. We cleared them and tried again to start the car. The "stop safely now" triangle poped up as well as the MIL. So we checked the codes again and this time there was one code "P1A0C" it says the failure type is "00". I might have a bad PCM or bad wires or connectors? Don't judge me to hard on the next comment. As for why the battery is as full as it is, is because I took the HVB out and charged each individual cell (76 in all) with a special charger ment for charging the 3.6/3.7 nominal voltage cells. Before this was done the ICE still would not start. The battery was run down do to sitting to long and or trying to get the ICE started. I have tried to start the ICE by your suggestion of turning the car on to "drive" mode and help the gas pedal to the floor (with the car in park) for about a minute with no results. I tried this on more than one occasion. No go. I did make.sure voltage changed as well as the pedal was pressed and depressed. That all seemed to be good as well. Thanks again for your help. If you need more information just let me know. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzchen Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 If something/anything saw 17 V I'd start looking/checking fuses next. With the car in Ready to Drive can you measure the voltage at the battery? What is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 2/6/2023 at 6:43 PM, jzchen said: If something/anything saw 17 V I'd start looking/checking fuses next. With the car in Ready to Drive can you measure the voltage at the battery? What is it? I checked all the fuses under the hood and they all appeared to be good. In engineering mode with the key on it says the system voltage is 13.8. I have not checked it at the battery. I will do that in the AM and get back to you. Thanks for the suggestions. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 2/6/2023 at 6:43 PM, jzchen said: If something/anything saw 17 V I'd start looking/checking fuses next. With the car in Ready to Drive can you measure the voltage at the battery? What is it? I just checked the battery, with the key off, the battery shows 11.99 volts. With the key on, ready to drive, it showed 14.57 volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzchen Posted February 8, 2023 Report Share Posted February 8, 2023 At this point I would guess to try to apply 12 V to the starter and see if it will crank, or get the starter tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2023 On 2/7/2023 at 5:37 PM, jzchen said: At this point I would guess to try to apply 12 V to the starter and see if it will crank, or get the starter tested. The hybrid cars do not have a 12v starter. The ICE is started by one the electric motor/generators and the HVB. I wish it were that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestead Posted February 8, 2023 Report Share Posted February 8, 2023 Why not take it in and get a professional diagnosis of the problem and then decide if you want to try to fix it yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2023 On 2/7/2023 at 8:55 PM, homestead said: Why not take it in and get a professional diagnosis of the problem and then decide if you want to try to fix it yourself? That thought has crossed my mind. The Ford dealer we use is about 100 miles away. So, I plan on exhausting all the simple options before going that far. The hope was somebody on this forum had the same problem and knew the awnser. I do realize it's hard to diagnose things over the internet. Worth a try I figured. Thanks again to all those with input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzchen Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/7/2023 at 8:18 PM, powerstroke cowboy said: That thought has crossed my mind. The Ford dealer we use is about 100 miles away. So, I plan on exhausting all the simple options before going that far. The hope was somebody on this forum had the same problem and knew the awnser. I do realize it's hard to diagnose things over the internet. Worth a try I figured. Thanks again to all those with input. We still have our Prius but had traded in our C-MAX Energi in 2018. I was looking on fordparts.com and (not knowing your model year) randomly selected 2014 Fusion. There are several “starters” listed. If you enter your VIN the site will narrow down your choices to the ones that are appropriate. So it may be the “starter”, just we don’t know how to test it. Another possible concern may be that 17 V jolt may have damaged an ECU… What software did you use to scan it? If not ForScan can you try it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-N Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 The C-Max engine is started by one of the two 450V electric motors housed inside the transmission. There is no "traditional" mounted-to-the-bellhousing starter motor. powerstroke cowboy and cr08 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 4:12 AM, jzchen said: We still have our Prius but had traded in our C-MAX Energi in 2018. I was looking on fordparts.com and (not knowing your model year) randomly selected 2014 Fusion. There are several “starters” listed. If you enter your VIN the site will narrow down your choices to the ones that are appropriate. So it may be the “starter”, just we don’t know how to test it. Another possible concern may be that 17 V jolt may have damaged an ECU… What software did you use to scan it? If not ForScan can you try it? The post right above mine from Bill-N explains how my car does not have a starter motor that runs off the 12v battery. Just like I tried to explain in post #8. I wish it were that simple. This car had no codes showing that it ever saw 17 volts or more. I called Ford and they say the code "F00317" is for "rough road hardware not present" that could.they said also point to a bad crankshaft sensor. In plan to test the crank sensor this weekend. I used auto enginuity to check for and clear the codes. It's the enhanced ford package. That just means it works on diesels as well. I am working on getting forscan. I will need to pick up the datalink cable to do it. When I get everything I need I will give it a go. Thanks for the input. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 1:19 PM, Bill-N said: The C-Max engine is started by one of the two 450V electric motors housed inside the transmission. There is no "traditional" mounted-to-the-bellhousing starter motor. That's my understanding. Thanks for clarification on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzchen Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 I found the code “F00317” here: https://workshop-manuals.com/ford/mondeo_2007.5_02.2007/mechanical_repairs/4_electrical/419_electronic_feature_group/419-10_multifunction_electronic_modules/description_and_operation/diagnosis_and_testing/generic_electronic_module_(gem)/ “Charging system at fault.” Since it is historical at least it seems resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 12:18 AM, jzchen said: I found the code “F00317” here: https://workshop-manuals.com/ford/mondeo_2007.5_02.2007/mechanical_repairs/4_electrical/419_electronic_feature_group/419-10_multifunction_electronic_modules/description_and_operation/diagnosis_and_testing/generic_electronic_module_(gem)/ “Charging system at fault.” Since it is historical at least it seems resolved. That's interesting. Ford might not have told me correctly. I wonder if that would have anything to do with a HVB go dead do to the ice not starting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Hello all, I have ForScan and I ran it on the car. I picked up two new codes besides the P1A0C. The P1A0C is still present. The two new codes are attached in picture form. Thanks for any and all help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstroke cowboy Posted February 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 With farther diagnosing that included flashing and testing all the control module's to make sure they were working properly. I am about 99.9% sure it's a bad transmission/transaxle. Not sure when I can take it apart to see for sure. But I will be sure to post up what I find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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