Recall 13B07: The Guinea Pig Thread

[RaPieR]

I guess I've never really noticed that.  Is there a particular speed in which high ice no longer works?

The only thing I've noticed is it is easier to get into this mode at lower speed if the road is level enough to keep load from dipping and starting ev.

[SnitGTS]

Do you drive a gray C-Max by any chance? I pulled up behind one when I crossed back into the US at the Ambassador bridge.

 

I do drive a gray C-Max but no that was not me, I crossed on the Lewiston / Queenston bridge a little north of Niagara Falls.  I wish I had chosen another route, took an hour and a half to cross!!!

[SnitGTS]

A wee bit better this morning, 76 vs 72 yesterday, same drive. Same 0.28 gas used but better EV this morning. May be its still learning. Yesterday I finished at 61MPG, dissappointing but the drive felt good though. I'll keep watching it to see how it goes....kinda disappointed there is no visual MPG improvements.

 

Jus, curious if you think the car feels a lot different now then before?

 

I am surprised how different the car behaves now, depending on the state of charge the EV is much more aggressive at assisting.  Above 2/3 charge you get EV assist almost any time the ICE is on, 1/3 to 2/3 charge you get EV assist if you are over 2 bars, and below 1/3 it gets increasingly difficult to stay in EV.  It's a little frustrating to me because I used to pulse at 2 1/2 bars and then glide for as long as it took to get the state of charge up to 2/3 or higher, after which I would use the EV to keep my speed constant until the battery was drained, rinse and repeat.  Now if I do that after the battery is 1/3 charged the EV kicks in when I go above 2 bars, so I have to keep my acceleration at 2 bars to charge any higher.

 

I bet our mileage will get better as we re-learn how to drive our cars.

[wab]

I've worried about Energi drivers and us.

 

 

We live at the top of a hill, if I turn left out of our neighborhood it's still downhill.

 

 

I can be doing 50 mph when the ICE first starts.

 

I DO NOT LIKE THIS :nonono: !      And force the ICE to start at ASAP.

 

 

I was taught that the first few seconds a gas engine runs is where ALL the wear is.

 

 

I can't even imagine how much worse it would be if the motor starts for the first time in the morning @ at 50+ MPH, I can see these things wearing out, using oil etc. in a few years.

 

 

Thoughts...

 

 

 

Looks like I wont have to worry about the cold ICE going from Zero RPM to 2900 instantly.

 

 

13B07 is an amazing :happy feet:  FIX/upgrade for OUR cmax.

 

 

Before the upgrade I couldn't use EV+.

I tried a few time, got passed by a bicycle going up hill toward our house.

 

Now that EV+ is back I can accelerate (slowly) to a little more than 25 before I turn onto our street.

 

The battery is pretty much done by the time I'm in our garage.

 

 

Which means that the next morning when I leave the house the ICE starts, warms at a reasonable RPM and is ready for 50+ by the time I get there.

[JohnnOhio]

I do have some battery assist at first but goes away as soon as the ICE warms up. Then just pure ICE at probably 6,000 rps on the freeway. The engine is screeming down the road and vibrates the stearing wheel the whole time. I have some problems with this update.

[MSmith1915]

Just got 13B07 update today.  Went for a short drive and the update seems to be working OK.  Initial impression:  it does seem easier to average higher mpg.  My drive home with a mix of city and highway driving, averaged 48 mpg.  The real test will be when my wife gets behind the wheel.  She averages about 37 mpg.  I'll update in a few days.

[wab]

I do have some battery assist at first but goes away as soon as the ICE warms up. Then just pure ICE at probably 6,000 rps on the freeway. The engine is screeming down the road and vibrates the stearing wheel the whole time. I have some problems with this update.

 

 

 

Ouch these things red line at 6K.

 

 

Without a doubt your 13B07 did not install correctly.

 

I think you'll be happy when you get a successful install.

[YakMax]

We had the update done last week with just 1400 miles on the car. On mild acceleration, the engine sounds a little louder but we decided to take a 220 mile road trip. Since we purchased our C-Max, we have been stuck at 39 mpg, but we finished the trip which was mostly 70 mph at 40.2 mpg. The trip across the mountains hardly had any flat road surfaces so we are happy to finally be above 39 mpg especially since we had the air conditioning on all the time. While the mileage was nothing spectacular, it continues to inch up every week. :yahoo:

[spyburn]

I had the update done a couple weeks ago.  I posted early in this thread that it changed the way the car drives, and thought I'd have to re-learn how to drive it.  For the first week after getting the update I was getting around 42 - 43 on my drive to and from work (30 miles each way).  This was an improvement on the 40-41 I had gotten in the past.  Today I got 47.1 on my way to work and 47.9 on the way home. This is the best MPG I've gotten on my commute since I got the car at the end of June.

 

I think several things contributed to this improvement.  First, I am driving differently.  I rarely use cruise anymore unless I'm really ticked off (which tends to make me drive a little too fast).  I've gotten a lot better at figuring out how to maximize the charge for when it does the most good.  By driving differently, I do NOT mean that I've given up A/C or started driving 20 MPH under the speed limit.  I still run the A/C almost non-stop, and I still drive the speed limit, or very close to it. I mean I'm adjusting to the way the car runs most efficiently (at least that's what I'm telling myself!) 

 

Second, I'm over 2000 miles on the car now....I really think that break in period makes a difference.  

 

I was pleased with my car when I was getting low 40's.  Driving at freeway speeds and getting almost 48?  I'm thrilled.  I LOVE not stopping for gas every 4 or 5 days.

[Noah Harbinger]

I do have some battery assist at first but goes away as soon as the ICE warms up. Then just pure ICE at probably 6,000 rps on the freeway. The engine is screeming down the road and vibrates the stearing wheel the whole time. I have some problems with this update.

 

You can turn on the tachometer on the MyView screen to get a better idea of what it's doing. 

 

If it runs down the battery during the warm-up phase and feels it must regen quickly at the same time as you are accelerating to high speeds, I could imagine it running the ICE pretty high. 

[Noah Harbinger]

That app looks awesome!!  Too bad I'm on an iDevice.  Honestly, I can't stand Fuelly.

 

I wish Fuelly would show a trendline over time for all vehicles - it would be interesting to see if the effects of the update are noticable. 

[Jus-A-CMax]

Jus, curious if you think the car feels a lot different now then before?

 

I am surprised how different the car behaves now, depending on the state of charge the EV is much more aggressive at assisting.  Above 2/3 charge you get EV assist almost any time the ICE is on, 1/3 to 2/3 charge you get EV assist if you are over 2 bars, and below 1/3 it gets increasingly difficult to stay in EV.  It's a little frustrating to me because I used to pulse at 2 1/2 bars and then glide for as long as it took to get the state of charge up to 2/3 or higher, after which I would use the EV to keep my speed constant until the battery was drained, rinse and repeat.  Now if I do that after the battery is 1/3 charged the EV kicks in when I go above 2 bars, so I have to keep my acceleration at 2 bars to charge any higher.

 

I bet our mileage will get better as we re-learn how to drive our cars.

 

Ok, here are my notes from the CITY driving:

1. Warmup time and fuel burn, definitely down but it wasn't that much of a gain but its still positive. I use to have 0.05 burn to a point on a road and I am seeing 0.03 or 0.04. I STILL see 2 warm up cycles, right at the start when ICE starts after the ON button and the car is moving and then I kick in EV, the next use of ICE is another 2nd but shorter cycle. Both cycles cannot be avoided but both times are down as well after this update.

2. Power - no difference. Unlike JohnnOhio, I do not see any loss in torque and power. I can still gun it when I have to and I can still feather it no worries.

3. At 30 to 38 mph, the car seem to coast better - it feels like the active grill shutters are closed but I have no proof since I have nothing to stick under the bonnet...but it definitely seems to glide better. Temp was around 85 and AC was off for both days.

4. EV driving - seem to go down slower in-use but again, I have no proof of this, just what I notice.

5. Charging - slight improvement, just a tad quicker. Again, just observation.

 

I also had my 20K oil change and tire rotation and I am hearing some more tire road noise so I am thinking its just the tires settling down these couple of days. Not checked the tire pressure yet either....that could play a factor. Its on my Maxine "to-do" list.

 

Now you would think I should be pusing the max out of my MPGs but with 2 days of the post 13b07, I am not seeing any gains. Infact, my daily work MPG has gone down from 63MPG to about 61MPG. 2 MPGs...what...why am I complaining....these are high numbers....at these high numbers, its a difference between a mid 700 and 800+ tank.

 

I will keep at it and observe it. This :airquote: play tank is almost done anyway...

Edited August 21, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[salsaguy]

try the empower screen or the engage screen so you can see where the engine kicks in and when it goes in and out of EV mode. stay under the 2nd bar on the left. try to stay in EV as much as possible.

 

Khern, I like the graph (Bars) too I find it helpful but still learning as I have only had this car since July 10.. Just had my update yesterday at Beach Ford in Virginia beach Va. But how do I know if I got the correct update?

[salsaguy]

ehh??? are you joking Jus? the blip/double tap *IS* the negative on the cruise control. what else has a minus on it?? surely you jest. double tapping means reduce the cruise mph setpoint by 2 mph to reduce the engine load.

..and here I was messing with the cruise +/-. Cool, thanks CMax-Traqveler, I'll have to try this, should be easy enuf to feather. The old way was much simpler....but we don't have any 85mph freeways here. 70 is the max I have seen....

[salsaguy]

rapier

1) i didn't see anything go in our come out of EV mode at the 2:09 mark.you sure about that timestamp?

2) For all here, why doesn't the Avg Mpg display show any change? it seems to stay at 42.2 forever. there were times when you got it up to 60 mpg for a while. i guess on a high mpg car like this it takes alot of driving to make a small change up/down?? i like the instantaneous mpg on my car (Passat) where i can see what it is down to 1 decimal while driving. the bar graph thing for instantaneous mpg doesn't do it for me. not enough info for an engineer/statistics type like me :)

[salsaguy]

best thing to do to help the newbies and those who are clueless about high ice, etc would be to overlay text comments in the you tube video at the proper points so everyone can know when it goes into each mode and what to look out for and to point out the key indicators (battery up/down charge discharge etc)

or else make a bullet list of each of the modes and timestamps for each.

[RaPieR]

rapier

1) i didn't see anything go in our come out of EV mode at the 2:09 mark.you sure about that timestamp?

2) For all here, why doesn't the Avg Mpg display show any change? it seems to stay at 42.2 forever. there were times when you got it up to 60 mpg for a while. i guess on a high mpg car like this it takes alot of driving to make a small change up/down?? i like the instantaneous mpg on my car (Passat) where i can see what it is down to 1 decimal while driving. the bar graph thing for instantaneous mpg doesn't do it for me. not enough info for an engineer/statistics type like me :)

It was around the 2 minute mark and also around the 9 minute mark. My avg mileage isn't changing because that's my lifetime mileage on the onboard.

[JohnnOhio]

Ok

 

I'm taking it back. Just  about got hit in the rear merging onto the freeway this morning. I'm sure that the update did'nt install correctly. I'm calling before I blow the engine or get into an accident on the freeway.

 

Thanks for all of the feed back. I printed it off and will take it with me to show them that nobody else is having this low tork issue.

 

FIX IT!!!!!

[Adair]

Sorry you're having to take it back John, but glad you are doing it. My update had to be done over too, but for different reasons. I had to do the merge thing last night and had no problem. Hopefully this will be a quick fix and you'll be back on the road soon.

[Jus-A-CMax]

 

ehh??? are you joking Jus? the blip/double tap *IS* the negative on the cruise control. what else has a minus on it?? surely you jest. double tapping means reduce the cruise mph setpoint by 2 mph to reduce the engine load.

..and here I was messing with the cruise +/-. Cool, thanks CMax-Traqveler, I'll have to try this, should be easy enuf to feather. The old way was much simpler....but we don't have any 85mph freeways here. 70 is the max I have seen....

*sigh* really :nonono: , I better try that out on my virtual CMax to see if you are correct: :airquote:  double tapping means reduce the cruise mph setpoint by 2 mph to reduce the engine load :airquote:

 

:redcard:  Obviously, I have NO IDEA what I am doing in this car. And that :airquote: 1/4 gallon means Adair will go from the 600 club to 900 club like you posted :runaway:

 

Good Gawd :flyaway:

[plus 3 golfer]

Ok, here are my notes from the CITY driving:

1. Warmup time and fuel burn, definitely down but it wasn't that much of a gain but its still positive. I use to have 0.05 burn to a point on a road and I am seeing 0.03 or 0.04. I STILL see 2 warm up cycles, right at the start when ICE starts after the ON button and the car is moving and then I kick in EV, the next use of ICE is another 2nd but shorter cycle. Both cycles cannot be avoided but both times are down as well after this update.

2. Power - no difference. Unlike JohnnOhio, I do not see any loss in torque and power. I can still gun it when I have to and I can still feather it no worries.

3. At 30 to 38 mph, the car seem to coast better - it feels like the active grill shutters are closed but I have no proof since I have nothing to stick under the bonnet...but it definitely seems to glide better. Temp was around 85 and AC was off for both days.

4. EV driving - seem to go down slower in-use but again, I have no proof of this, just what I notice.

5. Charging - slight improvement, just a tad quicker. Again, just observation.

 

....

My comments:

 

1) Warm-up. - Can't tell until we get colder weather.

 

2) Power - I agree, seems the same.

 

3) Coasting - I agree that the car coasts further in "D" than pre-update.  This seems to be the case at all speeds and IMO is probably due to less traction motor regen (engine braking) and then perhaps better grille shutter operation.  In other words, when traveling 55 mph and have to stop because of a light change, I have to start coasting further back than pre-update. If I start the coast as I previously had done, I have to use the brakes harder, longer and thus must focus more on reaching a 100% brake score. 

 

4) EV driving - I agree, I seem to be able to travel further in EV mode than prior to the update (speed below 62 mph).  This may be do to grille shutters (lower drag) and also coasting on slight downgrades where there's not as much charging (and hence conversion losses) assuming the compression braking of the traction motor has been reduced.

 

5) Charging - I agree as I seem to notice a slightly higher engine rpm when charging than prior to update at higher speed > 65 mph.  This makes sense if one is going to allow more EV assist and full EV operation up to 85 mph.

 

I just wish that I had recorded comparative operating data prior to the update and then post update so that I could see if the above rationale would have been born out by the data .  

 

Since we don't have a set driving routine each day, it's difficult to estimate the FE improvement per se. But, when looking at fuelly, we are getting about 2+ mpg improvement in mixed driving after the update.  My last 2 fill-ups were mileage driven after the update and are the only 2 fill-ups in August so far. I really hope this improvement continues.   

[fbov]

...I just wish that I had recorded comparative operating data prior to the update and then post update so that I could see if the above rationale would have been born out by the data .  

What data are you interested in seeing? I'm not planning to update for a month or more; got to see what the pre-update can do, first, but I'm still at 1/2 on my first tank!

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[asb]

Okay!  I finished my first full tank of gas since the update.  I have found that my highs and lows are more pronounced.  I hit 56 mpg where I normally hit 51.  But then I hit some lows that were surprisingly low.

 

However, up until the update, I have never been able to get near a 500 mpg tank.  Today I hit 521 for the tank.  So even though it feels as if there is little change, there is apparently a rather large change.

 

I drive mainly on the highway.  I am still hitting ICE high during certain conditions with ECO cruise set at around 67ish.  But my mpg aren't going nearly as high.  I was around 48ish this morning.  Then I had to hit the brakes, so I'm not sure how long it would have held.

 

I feel as if the car has to get used to the update before we see any positive changes (though it is probably us that need to get used to it).

Edited August 22, 2013 by asb

[SnitGTS]

I agree with the higher highs and lower lows.  I'm getting 70+ every day to work when I used to get 65-70, but coming home I've been around 41-42 when I used to be pretty consistent at 45.

[Adair]

Asb said:  I feel as if the car has to get used to the update before we see any positive changes (though it is probably us that need to get used to it).

 

Yes, I completely agree with you. I was going to post something later to the same effect. I know.....I know.....aliens again. But after 8 months with the car, I don't think I had THAT much to relearn.