Countdown to cutie75 and salsaguy's Cmax...

[salsaguy]

Ok steve, didnt know about the reg Rav4 since Ive never seen one in person as we never looked / considered those before the Hybrid came out. Really a bad design but I understand they needed to make room for the battery under the seat and I guess for some its less obvious and intrusive looking than the visible hump on the Cmax. thats one of the only things I dont like on the CMax. Hope they future will bring smaller and more powerful battery tech

[stevedebi]

Ok steve, didnt know about the reg Rav4 since Ive never seen one in person as we never looked / considered those before the Hybrid came out. Really a bad design but I understand they needed to make room for the battery under the seat and I guess for some its less obvious and intrusive looking than the visible hump on the Cmax. thats one of the only things I dont like on the CMax. Hope they future will bring smaller and more powerful battery tech

Note that I've not seen either in person, but the Internet has pictures of both, and they both seem to have that same back seat slope.

 

I sometimes wonder why they didn't put the battery under and behind the seats in the C-Max. It is interesting to note, the C-Max Grand over in the UK can be had with a mini spare tire. I'm wondering if a grand C-Max could be set up and use the space better.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Grand C-Max Hybrid is a possibility, but would you be willing to have a rating of 38/34?

Nope. 40 is where I draw the line.

 

I think that it is just a matter of time kind of thing. I'm willing to wait it out. I still love my CMAX, but I hate having to fold down the rear seats for anything beyond a trip to the market.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Another thing on the Rav4 Hybrid that sucks is that the rear cargo bay area doesnt go full flat (its on an incline) when the seats are down

 

Weak! I'd hate that.

[Istheman]

Funny read some interesting comparisons on the Toyota Prius vs. The Ford c max much better off to go with the prius superior gas mileage superior customer service warranty and you won't need to worry about the warranty as the car works as it's supposed to.. Best friend has the prius I got the cmax because it was initially a better ride and more responsive on the throttle. long term though I avg. 36 mpg he avg 52mpg I have a car that fails once a month to start. he doesn't have that issue. I had to buy a booster pack to ensure I have a ride to and from work and that is the best advice the Ford dealership offered as they have no idea why the car dies from time to time even after having the car for 3 weeks were unable to narrow which module caused the drainage of the battery.

[ptjones]

Interesting my daughter's last fillup got 39.3 mpg and I'm averaging 52 mpg for the last couple of years in my 2013 CMAX SEL. :headscratch: You might want to look at my YouTube videos to learn how to drive a CMAX and get great MPG's. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/6568-how-to-drive-a-cmax-hybridffh-to-get-great-gas-mileage/page-1

 

 

Paul

Edited March 16, 2018 by ptjones

[Istheman]

Only way I get mileage averages over 37 mpg are to stay under 55mph to get greater than 40mpg averages speed has to consistently be under 55mph with a lot of stop and go in the city driving. Now if that pertains to you good story.. but real world driving a C max on the highway or interstate at 65mph and greater you will see consistently low 30mpg averages and when temperatures drop below 50 degrees you will see even lower mpg averages. Now if you want talk about coasting down hill averages to get 47mpg talk to a Ford representative; )

[JAZ]

36 mpg and 10k brake life?  I'd want to verify that it's even a C-Max.  Although, putting the two together, there seems to be a tale...

[Istheman]

36 mpg and 10k brake life?  I'd want to verify that it's even a C-Max.  Although, putting the two together, there seems to be a tale...

 

I'd want to verify you are not a Ford employee or work for a Ford dealer . The rear brake pads consistently are grinding at 10k with nominal usage at age 43 I'm not the balls to the wall gas to floor driver I was 18 lol Even my old Cadillac dhs would get 30mpg coast driving at 55mph. This coast and brake driving you tellers refer to isn't driving and if you applied that to any car you would see an increase of 5-10mpg. When my wife drives the car as she doesn't like to use the cruise for eco driving the mileage dips into the 34-35 range. Are there any real people here not associated with Ford or have they all moved on to other vehicles?

[raadsel]

I'd want to verify you are not a Ford employee or work for a Ford dealer . The rear brake pads consistently are grinding at 10k with nominal usage at age 43 I'm not the balls to the wall gas to floor driver I was 18 lol Even my old Cadillac dhs would get 30mpg coast driving at 55mph. This coast and brake driving you tellers refer to isn't driving and if you applied that to any car you would see an increase of 5-10mpg. When my wife drives the car as she doesn't like to use the cruise for eco driving the mileage dips into the 34-35 range. Are there any real people here not associated with Ford or have they all moved on to other vehicles?

 

And I'm another person, one who has never worked for and is not associated with Ford, that doesn't find your experience similar at all. Driving on the freeway, I have no issue getting at least 44 mpg at 60 mph, and 40 at 65 mph, and that is just using the cruise control -- not any type of hypermiling. If you can't get at least 40 mpg on the freeway at speeds below 65, then there is an issue with the car. My fuel economy with the 2013 C-Max isn't anything special but I still get 40 MPG over 3 years without really trying.

[ptjones]

I'd want to verify you are not a Ford employee or work for a Ford dealer . The rear brake pads consistently are grinding at 10k with nominal usage at age 43 I'm not the balls to the wall gas to floor driver I was 18 lol Even my old Cadillac dhs would get 30mpg coast driving at 55mph. This coast and brake driving you tellers refer to isn't driving and if you applied that to any car you would see an increase of 5-10mpg. When my wife drives the car as she doesn't like to use the cruise for eco driving the mileage dips into the 34-35 range. Are there any real people here not associated with Ford or have they all moved on to other vehicles?

How long have you had your CMAX?  How many miles? What tires do you have on the car now?  You obviously haven't looked at my videos or you would be getting better MPG's.  What is coast and brake driving anyways, never heard of it. :headscratch:

 

Paul

[Istheman]

And I'm another person, one who has never worked for and is not associated with Ford, that doesn't find your experience similar at all. Driving on the freeway, I have no issue getting at least 44 mpg at 60 mph, and 40 at 65 mph, and that is just using the cruise control -- not any type of hypermiling. If you can't get at least 40 mpg on the freeway at speeds below 65, then there is an issue with the car. My fuel economy with the 2013 C-Max isn't anything special but I still get 40 MPG over 3 years without really trying.

In the summer months on flat terrain without wind at 65mph I can achieve 40mpg. However up here in Indiana weather fluctuates drastically and with normal driving my cmax sel averages for the life of the vehicle 35.8 mpg. Maybe I got the worst CMAX on earth though from what I have read on other sites there is currently a class action lawsuit against Ford due to the fact the mpg is closer to 37mpg than the advertised 47mpg... the mpg isn't even the biggest factor. It's the intermittent unexplained battery drainage that's my number one complaint... number 2 would be the rear tires followed closely by the rear disc brakes I'm sitting at 69k miles 2nd set of tires and 3rd set of brake pads. Complete rotor and brakes at 40k as the rotors were destroyed by the lifetime warrantied ceramic brake pads... which I have also been informed of as common on these 2013 CMAX you have to buy the cheaper brake pads to keep from destroying the rotors. I also have read these cars do great in the south as the temp rarely drops below 40 however it's not advertised by Ford in order to get mpg or not suffer intermittent battery drainage you must live south of the Tennessee State line.

[Istheman]

How long have you had your CMAX?  How many miles? What tires do you have on the car now?  You obviously haven't looked at my videos or you would be getting better MPG's.  What is coast and brake driving anyways, never heard of it. :headscratch:

 

Paul

I'll have to check out your videos for increased mpg but the biggest factor against me in the mpg race is weather . Big difference in mpg from 70degrees driving temp to driving at 40 degrees or below.. and seriously reduced mpg below 30degrees we are talking 28mpg when the temp is below 30 degrees.... I can't believe Ford actually produced and sold this vehicle. Most of the world experiences winter and Ford sells a vehicle that has drastically reduced performance in the winter months. It's like driving a pair of flip flops compared to driving hiking boots in the winter... a CMAX is a flip flop not meant for driving in the winter.

[ptjones]

Do your self a favor and watch my videos, they explain how the engineers designed the CMAX to be driven.

 

Paul

[raadsel]

In the summer months on flat terrain without wind at 65mph I can achieve 40mpg. However up here in Indiana weather fluctuates drastically and with normal driving my cmax sel averages for the life of the vehicle 35.8 mpg. Maybe I got the worst CMAX on earth though from what I have read on other sites there is currently a class action lawsuit against Ford due to the fact the mpg is closer to 37mpg than the advertised 47mpg... the mpg isn't even the biggest factor. It's the intermittent unexplained battery drainage that's my number one complaint... number 2 would be the rear tires followed closely by the rear disc brakes I'm sitting at 69k miles 2nd set of tires and 3rd set of brake pads. Complete rotor and brakes at 40k as the rotors were destroyed by the lifetime warrantied ceramic brake pads... which I have also been informed of as common on these 2013 CMAX you have to buy the cheaper brake pads to keep from destroying the rotors. I also have read these cars do great in the south as the temp rarely drops below 40 however it's not advertised by Ford in order to get mpg or not suffer intermittent battery drainage you must live south of the Tennessee State line.

 

1) The 2013 C-Max EPA rating is 40 mpg. Yes, it was initially 47; Ford gamed the system by using the EPA rating for the Fusion Hybrid (which uses the same powertrain, so was allowed per EPA rules) and then, on top of that, they made errors in the calculations. Because of this, the EPA rating was dropped twice; 40 mpg overall seems to be a good number for the C-Max -- though some here argue it should be 42 or 44, particularly on the later model years.

 

2) Cold weather will lower fuel efficiency, particularly on shorter trips. As a general rule, you will lose 1-2 mpg for every 10 degrees the temperature drops -- though the grill covers help a great deal by limiting the cold air coming into the engine compartment. The biggest issue, with cold weather, is that the engine will want to come up to operating temperature before turning off -- meaning on a 1-2 mile trip the engine may run the entire time. This is made worse if you are running the cabin heater, as the air heated further keeps the engine from coming up to temperature (or even cools it off, such as when sitting at a light). In fact, some here will tell you they don't use the cable heater, only the heated seats, on shorter trips in winter. On a long trip, you typically won't lose as much fuel economy as it is easier to keep the engine warm once it is up to operating temperature, though, again, the grill covers help (and also can aid aerodynamics).

 

3) As others have stated, there was an issue with the battery -- and those seem to have largely been fixed by a series of recalls and customer satisfaction programs. That appears to have been a manufacturing issue, particularly on a number of SE versions; most SELs did not have the issue. This is an issue you should have been able to get fixed in conjunction with your Ford dealer, and through the various recalls. Additionally, there seems to be no correlation with geographic location (or temperature) with the battery drainage -- it happened just as much (from what I've seen) for people in the South as in the North.

 

4) Most of us have found that the rear tires aren't a huge issue, so long as you properly rotate your tires. I can't say for sure, but I believe (based on tread on the tires when I bought my C-Max and the wear since) I just replaced the factory tires on mine at 62,000 miles and almost 5 years.

 

5) I don't think any of us understand the issue you are having with the brakes. Most here still have the original factory brakes on the car -- they've never needed to be replaced. In fact, this seems as if it may be a large part of why you are having fuel economy issues. So long as you brake soft to moderately, then the brakes shouldn't be used; they should only activate when the car gets below about 5 mph. If you do a lot of hard braking, that might explain needing to replace the brakes as often as you do -- though that likely would be the case on most cars. Now, perhaps you have an issue with your brakes that is causing the wear and tear -- but that would seem to be an issue with your car, it is not an issue I've heard of with any other C-Max.

[markd]

I live in Indianapolis and my life mpg is 41.9 and I can do better than 40 year round. My average trip to the store is in the 50s.

[Nakkers]

I’m new to the brand. Not a ford employee. Live in a cold climate. Regular driving, I’m achieving 39.2 MPG, Temp is 32 F with a wind chill making it cooler and the wind itself has been a challenge.

 

Definitely need to get the ICE into operating temps before you see any true efficiency. I would expect short trips would take it’s toll. At the same time, our regular ICE vehicle have siimilar issues with fuel consumption. Sure, we can get 30 MPGs from larger vehicles in the summer and on the highway but, around town and short trips and during the winter? Don’t think so.

 

I’m no Ford Fan Boy or brand loyalist. And my impressions are based on a VERY short time of ownership. However, I can see how there are some techniques to adopt to achieve increased results. And even if you choose to ignore them, I would expect minimum 36 MPG in the winter driving like a regular vehicle. And I write this because the C Max does instinctively change my driving habits from mildly assertive to more like gingerly conservative as I look to gain more EV miles.

 

Looking forward to mild temps.

 

PS. My C Max is very low mileage for it’s year. Approximately 37,000 miles. The service records indicate no brake work and the pre sale inspection passed with flying colours.

 

I would be upset if I needed brake work and tire replacement as often as mentioned and definitely wouldn’t want to own a Ford product either.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Nakkers

[fbov]

1) The 2013 C-Max EPA rating is 40 mpg. ...

2) Cold weather will lower fuel efficiency, ...

3) As others have stated, there was an issue with the battery...

4) Most of us have found that the rear tires aren't a huge issue,...

5) I don't think any of us understand the issue you are having with the brakes....

1) My "lifetime" mileage is 41.1, but that's since ~11K miles when 13B07 PCM update was applied and the mileage zero'ed. 

 

2) When I was commuting, my mileage varied between mid-30's and low 50's from Winter to Summer. Now it's all short trips. 

 

3) Battery issue was nearly all with SE's; we have an SEL and have the original battery with no failures. In fact, my only unexpected failure was the RCM module, which lit up the dash nicely when it died, but was covered under warranty, and a recall as well. 

 

4) I switch to snows for Winter, so I'm rotating by tread depth on each side, never crossing. I'll get 36K miles from the OEM if I replace them at 3mm, 44K if I replace them at 2mm tread depth. 

 

5) Heres something I can fix... I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH BRAKES. Maybe now y'all will hear me. 

 

My rear rotors warped at 49K, and it's starting again now at 59K. I think the slide is hanging up on one side. It shows up as a loss of braking as you enter a turn, when the car is trying to switch from straight-line regen braking to friction braking in a turn. It's an odd feeling, like brake failure without actually losing the brakes.  

 

My front rotors dissolved at 51K and 4 years in service. I blame a high regen score (disuse) and road salt for the rust. 

 

As to how you might get better mileage... I think it starts with understanding because terrain and timing matter like never before. 

 

 

I'm a scientist by training, so I see things in terms of energy... producing it efficiently and then not wasting it. 

 

1) try to run the engine at low RPM and high load to get the most energy from the fuel. Once you get good at this, you will see benefit from premium fuel and avoiding ethanol (although never to cost equivalence). If not, buy gas based only on price.

1a) try to also keep the HVB charging whenever running the engine. Long slow acceleration both charges the HVB and uses fuel effectively. 

 

2) once the car is moving, conserve that kinetic energy within the restriction of the parasitic losses. 

2a) use regererative braking to convert speed into charge on the HVB. 

2b) being stopped at the top of a hill is the same as having high SOC in the HVB - both are stored energy.  

 

3) Pay attention to your route(s) as terrain matters

3a) use the ICE uphill, hopefully while simultaneously charging the HVB

3b) try to crest hills with a full battery, so you can use the down slope to extend your EV range. 

 

FWIW, I get better highway mileage in Ohio than New York because the NYS Thruway is flat while NE Ohio is full of rolling hills due to glacial moraines. YMMV for a large number of reasons!

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[SnowStorm]

Nice write-up and energy diagram.  The energy numbers show that the battery is generally large enough to handle regen from kinetic energy but not enough for larger hills and mountains.  It would be nice to have manual control of HVB charge/discharge at times.  Also, a 100 ft drop is worth about 1/2 mile of EV driving!  Other comments:

1) If you check a graph of OBDII data for varied driving conditions, you see that the ICE tries to run at about 2200 rpm and about 70% load. Just semantics perhaps, but I'd call it "moderate RPM".

2b) I like to stop at exits that are at the top of a hill or at least have an up-hill exit ramp.

3) It sure does!

3b) Unless its a big regen hill, then you want low charge!

Those rolling hills really do save gas.  You get hybrid functionality with 100% efficiency.  Better than using the battery! :)

Edited March 24, 2018 by SnowStorm

[ptjones]

Just to clarify a bit using Frank's diagram all the energy for our CMAX comes from burning gas in the engine(ICE), to do this efficiently the ICE WT needs to be above 202*F and judging by the way the ECM runs the ICE  load of 2 Bars seems to give the best MPG's. 

 

In a perfect example of  Max efficiency the ICE would have just enough power at max torque so you could go at a desired speed say 60 mph on level ground and you could probably get 60 mpg. This is totally impracticable, we would have a tough time going up hills. :sad:  So to make the car useful the Hybrid was developed so that any excess energy from the ICE could charge the HVB when it's operating at a more efficient load. Also regen could be used  to charge the HVB from slowing down or going down hill and used later to move the car by using electric motors. This recaptured energy and it's reuse is about 80-90% efficient as compared with coasting in Neutral is 100%. Strictly ICE car looses all that energy. :sad: 

 

Paul       

[fbov]

Just to clarify a bit ...

 

... the ICE would have just enough power at max torque so you could go at a desired speed say 60 mph on level ground and you could probably get 60 mpg. ...

+1

 

Sounds like Toyota's approach!

[ptjones]

+1

 

Sounds like Toyota's approach!

I think you are right!  :)

 

Paul