Battery dead

[zhackwyatt]

I've always found Bluetooth to not be entirely stable with different phones and headsets. (Not talking about sync, but Bluetooth in general.)  Although it seems better in recent years.

[andrewwx]

Hi All

 

Day 24 of the hostage crisis.

 

Much to my disappointment all of my wiring harnesses were in good shape. I really was betting on the tailgate wiring because that would easily explain why the car died for me and never for the service department since they never touched the lift gate.

 

My service guy who must really wish I had bought the Focus ST (uncomfortable seats) told me that Ford engineering is prepping a battery specific software update to cure the problems.

 

They said it would be about a week or so until they see Ford push the software out to the field.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

[pomtrey]

a battery software update?! can't wait to see what that does.

[plus 3 golfer]

I can't visualize how a software update can fix a  wiring harness issue.  Maybe it's simply a detection of drain on the 12 V system after the car should be "asleep" or maybe the wiring isn't really the problem.

[salman]

Hi All

 

Day 24 of the hostage crisis.

 

Much to my disappointment all of my wiring harnesses were in good shape. I really was betting on the tailgate wiring because that would easily explain why the car died for me and never for the service department since they never touched the lift gate.

 

My service guy who must really wish I had bought the Focus ST (uncomfortable seats) told me that Ford engineering is prepping a battery specific software update to cure the problems.

 

They said it would be about a week or so until they see Ford push the software out to the field.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

Thanks for the update . . . about the pending update. And sorry to hear that the wiring harness reports don't seem to be addressing the cause of the problem.

 

A software problem or a twitchy relay switch make more sense to me as a likely cause of our 12 volt problems than wiring harness problems or frayed wiring. A problem with wiring harnesses or a frayed wire would, I think, produce other effects besides a battery drain, like flickering lights or radios that flicker on and off, etc. While that sort of wiring problem could well happen in any given car, it does not seem to match the experience of most of us who have had dead 12 volt systems. Most of us have not reported other electrical problems coincident with or preceding the dead 12 volt episodes.

 

I wish we knew at least a little of the story behind how & why the Ford engineers came to decide it might be a software problem. While the service techs at dealerships often will explain to us what they have tested and tried, Ford central does not seem to let out much information.

Edited February 20, 2013 by salman

[Theresa]

Add me to the list. I bought my Cmax the end of October and twice I have gone out in the morning, to go to work, and found it dead. The 12 volt battery was replaced the first time, because it was "defective"-- that's what I was told anyway. The new battery lasted for about 5 weeks before it died.

 

I do not have the patience to wait for Ford to figure this out and am looking for a different car. I bought a new car because I thought it would be reliable. Now I want my old Taurus back. It looks like from what other people have said that there are several different reasons/guesses for why the battery is dying and Ford really doesn't know what is causing the issue. 

 

The last time I had my car towed it took all day and several phone calls for the tow truck to arrive; I couldn't wait for the tow truck and caught a ride to work and the Roadside Assistance person didn't tell the tow truck driver where my car was--that it was in my garage. 

[mbedit]

Its likely that there are multiple things going on. Frayed wires or a bad wiring harness is sure to fix some some people s issues, but a software glitch causing the system not to sleep makes allot of sense too. I'm in to my 3rd week and nearing the same mileage where my issue manifested on my 1st C-Max, so it will be interesting to see if it re-occurs on my 2nd. (I'm hoping it doesn't!) 

[littlebitfarm]

My turn today. Car totally dead. Got my boss to jump it. Drove 80 miles yesterday. No lights on, nothing plugged in. 4100 miles

[yark99]

Update (or not): Dealer has had our car since Monday. Thanks in part to info on this board, they took it seriously and are trying to find the problem. They have found a draw on the battery and are trying to trace it. It seemed like they found one, but it wasn't the only one. They are apparently communicating with Ford about things to try. I will let everyone know if something is found.

 

They are being quite nice. We have a loaner vehicle-- unfortunately, at first it was an Explorer, which felt like driving a hippopotamus after the agile CMax. Today I asked for something that wasn't a gas hog.

 

I know we are early adopters and will have some patience as long as Ford treats us right, which they have so far.

 

One thing I do not understand is why the hybrid batt can't provide enough juice to start the car if the 12V is low.

 

littlebitfarm, where are you in Central IL? Are we at the same dealer-- Ford City?

[salman]

Yark99

 

Thanks for the update. Please try to get as much information as you can from your dealer's service department about where they think they have found draws on the battery and how they found the trouble spots. that could be very useful for the rest of us.

 

The 12 volt battery supplies 12 volt current that runs accessories including the door locks and also supplies power to start the car by starting up its computer systems. The LiOn battery is high voltage. When the car is running there is a step down converter that converts high voltage current to 12 volts to run accessories and re-charge the 12 volt battery. But when the car is off the converter is not available. That's why the LiOn battery can have a charge but cannot be used to open the door locks and start the car. Those things can only be done from current taken off the 12 volt battery.

[zhackwyatt]

Yark99

 

Thanks for the update. Please try to get as much information as you can from your dealer's service department about where they think they have found draws on the battery and how they found the trouble spots. that could be very useful for the rest of us.

 

The 12 volt battery supplies 12 volt current that runs accessories including the door locks and also supplies power to start the car by starting up its computer systems. The LiOn battery is high voltage. When the car is running there is a step down converter that converts high voltage current to 12 volts to run accessories and re-charge the 12 volt battery. But when the car is off the converter is not available. That's why the LiOn battery can have a charge but cannot be used to open the door locks and start the car. Those things can only be done from current taken off the 12 volt battery.

To expand upon this, when the car is off, a relay opens, and electrically disconnects the High Voltage Battery from the rest of the system.  The 12v battery is needed to close this relay.

[bymaine]

My turn yesterday. Found dead in the driveway yesterday morning. 3500 miles. SE model. Nothing left on from the night before. Called Ford Roadside, and they jumped it. It's at Ford now. They set me up quickly with a loaner. Interesting observation after jumping, as I was driving it to Ford, the clock remained at a specific time 1:09, and never changed. I told this to the service dept. Not sure what it means but the clock was powered and lit, but not updating. Will keep everyone advised when they call back. 

[zhackwyatt]

i added a poll to try to get a consensus for those who have had the problem. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1294-for-those-who-have-had-12v-battery-problems/

[yark99]

bymaine: Your clock observation is exactly what happened to me. The clock began updating after the car was powered off and restarted.

 

salman: Yes, I will give all the information I can! I understand about the LIon being at a different voltage. Our Civic Hybrid worked differently-- seemed like it could access it.

[bymaine]

yark99 - Thanks for he info. I was reluctant to shut the engine off before handing it off to Ford. 

 

I talked with customer care, and they promised to escalate my battery issue on the regional level. Someone will call me back by Tues. Thanks to this forum, I had plenty of data to back up my phone call. They had specific questions about how the CMax behaved before and after the dead battery was jumped. They gave me a case number and promised to call the dealer to offer some additional resources. 

 

The Ford dealer called and said the CMax started right up for them - of course, but the clock was still stuck at 1:09.  The are ordering an 'ECM for the accessories', and  should be received on Monday. They feel that tis is the problem because of the odd behavior of the clock. No other faults were found. I don't know how much troubleshooting was conducted.

 

Thank you all for your input. I will do my part and update this topic as I get info.  

[salman]

Here is a quick recap of Ford's proposed fixes for 12 volt problems as they have been reported by us on these threads. This is based on my memory, so please add/correct as needed:

 

1 - change the 12 volt battery for a new one

 

2 - change a module (presumably an ECM = Electronic Control Module) in the instrument panel (see discussion in the "Dead 12v Battery in My Cmax" thread)

 

3 - change faulty wiring harnesses (perhaps associated with the radio/communications panel)

 

4 - change/repair frayed wiring at the rear hatch

 

5 - engineer a software to be made available next week (not clear what software is targeted, though it might be connected to battery charging and/or shutdown).

 

6 - replace an ECM for the "accessories" (not clear to me whether accessories  means radio/communications, lighting, 12 volt power outlets, etc)

 

Ford's fixes number 3, 4, 5, and 6 have all been reported in the past 7-10 days. I suspect this might reflect some confusion or failures of communication on Ford's part, and it probably also means that Ford has not yet definitively identified the cause of the problem.

Edited February 23, 2013 by salman

[bymaine]

My CMax is getting the replacement  ECM for 'accessories' on Monday. I was told that it was for the radio/comms etc. I will clarify on Monday when I speak to Ford. The info was coming from the service advisor (scheduler), I'm not too sure of her technical ability. 

Edited February 24, 2013 by bymaine

[Theresa]

Had my Cmax towed to the dealer the first time for a dead battery at 775 miles. At 1620 my car was dead again. This time, service advisor said: "We repaired a ground wire related to the charging system and battery sensor."

 

They scraped some paint off the grounding post to improve contact, the way I understand it. Will see how long this solution works.

[Theresa]

I will double check this in my C-Max Hybrid, behavior should be the same. The cargo area outlet would make an ideal jump point for my Stanley Simple Start.

 

 Have you tried the Simple start yet? Does it work when 12v is dead. I'm looking to buy a battery charger to keep in my car and I'm wondering if it will actually work.

[davesalvatore]

I've looked ten pages of the forum and I must be stupid ! If Ford engineers can't fix this problem why should we the owners do it. I didn't buy a new car to carry around a set of jumper cables or a battery box . I want a car that I don't have to worry about my wife getting stuck somewhere in the snow or rain! So my advice is to call Ford and let them know they have to fix this problem ASAP.

I've had to jump my CMax three times and I had the battery replaced and still had no power it's at the dealer now and they can't find anything wrong . When I pick it up if it happens again I will go the Lemmon law route and try again with another brand of car,

[salman]

I've looked ten pages of the forum and I must be stupid ! If Ford engineers can't fix this problem why should we the owners do it. I didn't buy a new car to carry around a set of jumper cables or a battery box . I want a car that I don't have to worry about my wife getting stuck somewhere in the snow or rain! So my advice is to call Ford and let them know they have to fix this problem ASAP. I've had to jump my CMax three times and I had the battery replaced and still had no power it's at the dealer now and they can't find anything wrong . When I pick it up if it happens again I will go the Lemmon law route and try again with another brand of car,

 

davesalvatore

 

If you look over the posts on these threads you will see that all of us who have had 12 volt problems have been calling Ford's central customer care line as well as pursuing matters with our dealer's service departments, and we have been sharing information among ourselves, too.

 

The battery booster comments are about backup plans so people don't get stuck in the middle of nowhere. It is not an alternative to Ford fixing the problem.

 

There is a lot of information on these threads that you can use to make sure your dealer's service department is learning from other cases and calling into Ford's "hotline" for service techs. And all of this information could also help you make a Lemon Law case, if/when you get to the point that you can invoke NY's statutes.

 

In return, please post as much information about your experience as possible: what model CMax, what accessories, when the incidents happened, any odd details around the failures, and anything the dealer did besides replacing the battery.

 

Information can help us all.

[oxnard]

Hi All

 

Day 24 of the hostage crisis.

 

Much to my disappointment all of my wiring harnesses were in good shape. I really was betting on the tailgate wiring because that would easily explain why the car died for me and never for the service department since they never touched the lift gate.

 

My service guy who must really wish I had bought the Focus ST (uncomfortable seats) told me that Ford engineering is prepping a battery specific software update to cure the problems.

 

They said it would be about a week or so until they see Ford push the software out to the field.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

My car is now at the same Ford dealer as yours.  Service guy just told me the same thing today.  He told me: "Another C-Max owner has the same problem"  Must be you!  Hope this guy has the answer!

[andrewwx]

Hi All:

 

Has anyone mentioned the defective instrument panel that was found to the problem for Redldr1 to their service tech? Has anyone had their instrument panel looked at?

 

Redldr1 what was the test your tech did to determine that the panel was defective?

 

I really wonder if we have a solution right under our nose.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

[Max Power]

12V was dead in the first week I got the car.  Roadside said this was the second one they jumped this week.  I noticed that the red terminal cover had already been moved like the car had to be jumped on the lot.  I imagine this happens to other cars and they thought nothing of it.

 

The salesman took me through the service bay while I was buying the car, maybe I should have been more worried about the C-max I saw with half the interior panels on the ground behind it.

 

Still playing phone tag to see what they want to do about it. Not sure I want them to dig through my car if there is no consensus what the problem is.

 

SE 200A

[jld]

i added a poll to try to get a consensus for those who have had the problem. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1294-for-those-who-have-had-12v-battery-problems/

ZHACKWYATT

THIS  POLL  IS  A  VERY  GOOD  IDEA  AND  EVERYONE  WHO  HAS  HAD  THE  DEAD   BATTERY  PROBLEM  SHOULD  ENTER  THEIR  INFORMATION  TO  SEE  IF  THERE  IS ANY  PATTERN  AS  TO  BUILD  DATE,  OPTIONS  PACKAGES,  AND  SOLUTIONS  TO  PROBLEM.