jmckinley Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I did post this on IRV2 forum. Only one other guy over there with a C-Max and he is wintering somewhere so isn't towing much. No doubt when he heads north he will experience this phenomenon. Once again, thanks to whoever posted about the Stanley Simple Start. About the size of a hardback book and works like a champ to wake up the electrical system. I have no idea if it would actually start a regular car, but it's just right for the C-Max. Also fits in the rear storage under the floor or in the storage compartments behind the front seats. Don't leave home without one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
air463 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Towing Update.......I finally started towing the Cmax and so far we have towed it four times at 150 miles each time. Yes my battery was dead each time and I had to junp start it each time. I called Ford customer service and complained. I was told the engineers would be looking at this problem. Yes and the check is in the mail.......Will be getting with my home town dealer when the trip is over and go from there. If it takes me calling everyday I hope they are prepared for that. Not a happy camper right now with the Cmax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roninsd Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Not happy with the C-Max, or the support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wab Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 RV'ers are very passionate :drool: about our hobby\life style. Of all the forums (rv, motorcycle, car) I belong to I see more over the top :rant2: :drool: :yahoo: :runaway: from RV owners. One gentleman wasn't going to be satisfied with a buyback... he was going to start a class-action lawsuit. Someone pointed out that a class-action probably required more than .1% of the owners have the same problem. One lady literally replies to EVERY post.She currently has over 13 THOUSAND (averaging over 2K per yr) posts AND she still had time to pull her 5th wheel from the east to the west coast by herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
air463 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Roninsd.......Not happy with the C-Max, or the support? My Cmax has had electrical gremlins since day one. It has unlocked doors, rolled down windows, turned lights on, these were while it set parked overnight. While driving it has turned the nav system off and back on. I had a back hatch latch go bad and needed to replaced. Every time I hear the old can not duplicate from the dealers. Costomer service phone calls I have been told three different answers has to the update for the nav system, and it took me a full week to find out the procedure for getting the car ready for towing since the owners manual does not address the push button start. So for now the car and customer support are in a dead heat race as to who is going to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
air463 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Update to my last post..............I forgot to mention the five check engine light I have had all with can not duplicate from the dealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wab Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Roninsd.......Not happy with the C-Max, or the support? My Cmax has had electrical gremlins since day one. It has unlocked doors, rolled down windows, turned lights on, these were while it set parked overnight. While driving it has turned the nav system off and back on. I had a back hatch latch go bad and needed to replaced. Every time I hear the old can not duplicate from the dealers. Costomer service phone calls I have been told three different answers has to the update for the nav system, and it took me a full week to find out the procedure for getting the car ready for towing since the owners manual does not address the push button start. So for now the car and customer support are in a dead heat race as to who is going to win. Roninsd.......Not happy with the C-Max, or the support? My Cmax has had electrical gremlins since day one. It has unlocked doors, rolled down windows, turned lights on, these were while it set parked overnight. While driving it has turned the nav system off and back on. I had a back hatch latch go bad and needed to replaced. Every time I hear the old can not duplicate from the dealers. Costomer service phone calls I have been told three different answers has to the update for the nav system, and it took me a full week to find out the procedure for getting the car ready for towing since the owners manual does not address the push button start. So for now the car and customer support are in a dead heat race as to who is going to win. I'm finally getting :drool: ready to modify ours for towing. "since the owners manual does not address the push button start." I'm going to guess that you don't step on the brake just push the buttonTHEN step on the brake and shift to neutralMake sure everything that can be turned off is off??? Any help and bumps in the road you could help us avoid would be appreciated. I'm pretty sure we'll use the Blue Ox baseplate. wab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
air463 Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 wab Ford customer service told me to run the engine for a few minutes (lub the transmission) shift into neutral and with your foot off the brake just hit the start button again. This is putting the car in accessory mode. Be prepared to jump start the car after each time you tow it. I stop every 150 miles for our dog to go pee and the battery is already dead. So buy your self a jump start battery and keep it in the car. It does not take alot to jump the car but I do run the engine for as long as it will let me as to recharge the battery some. I do make sure everything is off before hitting the start button. I am hoping they will eventually tell us which fuze to pull (like most cars) to fix this problem. Good luck our Cmax tows just fine, don't even feel it behind our coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmatthews102 Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 I have both a good tow bar and a dolly to accommodate the various cars I tow behind my MH. I had planned on setting the CMAX up to be flat towed, but it sounds like it will be better to put it on the dolly. I usually travel with a Miata backed onto the dolly, as there generally is only my wife and myself on the trip. However, once in a while I do need a vehicle with a rear seat for extra people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
air463 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I have both a good tow bar and a dolly to accommodate the various cars I tow behind my MH. I had planned on setting the CMAX up to be flat towed, but it sounds like it will be better to put it on the dolly. I usually travel with a Miata backed onto the dolly, as there generally is only my wife and myself on the trip. However, once in a while I do need a vehicle with a rear seat for extra people.I know that I have been ticked off about the battery going dead, but when I think how easy it is to hook it up behind the motorhome, and compare what I went through using a tow dolly. I will always pick the flat towing. I have a dolly still but I do not plan on using it for the Cmax. The dead battery to me is not as bad as using a dolly with the straps that are always coming loose. And my tow bar stows alot better on the back of the motorhome than a tow dolly does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanstri Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I just got my C-Max last week - Ordered it for flat towing behind my Gulfstream Tourmaster, and just got through installing Roadmaster base plates for my All-Terrain tow-bar. Everything fit OK, but the instructions had me cutting away the energy absorbing panel and removing the air duct to the A/C condenser. With a little trimming, I was able to retain the air duct and replace the majority of the panel when I re-installed the bumper cover. I think Roadmaster needs to re-think their instructions. I also installed independent rear lights so I didn't have to interfere with the existing wiring. I searched for more info regarding the keyless entry & towing, and found this forum. After reading this thread, I am not thrilled with the dead battery issue. Even if it is easy to jump start, the battery is not a deep cycle battery and totally discharging repeatedly it will shorten its' life. This afternoon after I finished the installation, I tried this for my test tow of about 5 miles. After hooking up, I touched the start button to turn everything off and then got out and shut the door. I then re-entered the car and manually over-rode the shift lock to put it in neutral without touching the button or the brake pedal. My owner's manual showed removing the right side of the console to reach the shift interlock latch, but it didn't provide access. I pulled up on the shifter boot / trim plate around the shifter and it popped loose. Looking down into the opening, on the left side towards the rear of the opening there is a white plastic lever. If you press the start button, touching the brake pedal will cause this lever to move. If you manually move this lever to the rear, the button on the shifter can be depressed and the transmission can be shifted into neutral. I haven’t made a long trip, but it dash was dark, and it was not nagging me to put it in park. I tried this with the car on jack-stands, and the wheels were free to turn and steer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmckinley Posted March 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Not a bad plan. Hadn't thought of manually getting it into neutral. I think the steering would be unlocked in your scenario so can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. If it does, then with a little ingenuity we should be able to find an easy way to move the little white lever without pulling the shift boot each time. Maybe just a small hole drilled in the right place in the console would allow actuating the lever without taking anything apart. Been towing mine for six weeks now, over 3,000 miles, and the 150 mile limit continues, probably shrinking as the battery gets more distressed from being run down over and over again. I think you did the right thing with the air duct and energy adsorbing panel. I followed Roadmaster's instructions completely and now wish I had of worked on the duct more so it could be left in place and be mostly functional. I hate to pull the big plastic front end off and redo it but I may get to it when I have a free afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wab Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I'm using the Blue Ox base plate, should be here today. The online pdf shows less cutting, :waiting: we will see. Now I have to buy an adapter for our Roadmaster tow bar. Next will be the fuse/s to pull.I was hoping the 110 outlet would be hot while in acc mode, :cry: it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanstri Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Not a bad plan. Hadn't thought of manually getting it into neutral. I think the steering would be unlocked in your scenario so can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. If it does, then with a little ingenuity we should be able to find an easy way to move the little white lever without pulling the shift boot each time. Maybe just a small hole drilled in the right place in the console would allow actuating the lever without taking anything apart. I had mine up on jack stands when I first tried this. The front wheels were free to steer and rotate. I don't think this car has a steering lock! I ran out of time last night, but I think a small hole at the front of the parking brake handle recess and a pull string or wire attached to the lever will do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanstri Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I think you did the right thing with the air duct and energy adsorbing panel. I followed Roadmaster's instructions completely and now wish I had of worked on the duct more so it could be left in place and be mostly functional. I hate to pull the big plastic front end off and redo it but I may get to it when I have a free afternoon. The second time it only takes 15 minutes... ;) I followed the instructions and cut it all away. I thought about that night and took it back apart the next day. Trim the top edge of the air duct back to the 2nd rib and notch for the socket mounts. I cut the ends and bottom lip off the energy absorbing panel to where it fits between the adapter brackets, and re-attached it with 4 heavy zip ties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhackwyatt Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Why does the battery die exactly? Because it's left in accessory mode when towing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) The C-MAX has terminals under the hood for jumper cable connection. See page 255 of the owner's manual. I would definitely connect these to the 12v system on the motor-home. This will keep the C-MAX 12 volt battery charged. When (not if) you replace your 12v battery, ask the dealer for a Motorcraft BXT-96R-590. This battery is listed on page 350 of the owner's manual. The 96R has 590 CCA and 95 RC, 50% more capacity than the OEM BXT-67R. If your battery has been completely discharged more than a few times, it will probably not pass a battery load test. Your OEM battery has a free replacement warranty for three years. The C-Max has parasitic loads which are not completely understood, such as the high voltage battery cooling fans. The fans (12v ?) draw air from the car interior to cool the lithium battery. If the interior air becomes too warm, the system may start the air conditioner to provide cool air for the lithium battery. See page 179 and 184 of the manual. The transmission has an electric coolant oil pump. There is an electric vacuum pump. Questions: Is vacuum used for power brakes, and is the vacuum maintained with the system off? For more info, see "Battery temperature controls": http://ev.sae.org/article/11705 Edited March 19, 2013 by Sparky JAZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhackwyatt Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 The C-MAX has terminals under the hood for jumper cable connection. See page 255 of the owner's manual. I would definitely connect these to the 12v system on the motor-home. This will keep the C-MAX 12 volt battery charged. When (not if) you replace your 12v battery, ask the dealer for a Motorcraft BXT-96R-590. This battery is listed on page 350 of the owner's manual. The 96R has 590 CCA and 95 RC, 50% more capacity than the OEM BXT-67R. If your battery has been completely discharged more than a few times, it will probably not pass a battery load test. Your OEM battery has a free replacement warranty for three years. The C-Max has parasitic loads which are not completely understood, such as the high voltage battery cooling fans. The fans (12v ?) draw air from the car interior to cool the lithium battery. If the interior air becomes too warm, the system may start the air conditioner to provide cool air for the lithium battery. See page 179 and 184 of the manual. The transmission has an electric coolant pump. There is an electric vacuum pump. Questions: Is vacuum used for power brakes, and is the vacuum maintained with the system off? For more info, see "Battery temperature controls": http://ev.sae.org/article/11705What I'm saying, is why is towing behind something any different than the car just sitting there not being used. I can not use my car for a weekend and it will start Monday morning. Sounds like if I towed it behind an RV for a weekend, it will not start. What's the difference in the car between towing behind something and just sitting there unused? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) What I'm saying, is why is towing behind something any different than the car just sitting there not being used. I can not use my car for a weekend and it will start Monday morning. Sounds like if I towed it behind an RV for a weekend, it will not start. What's the difference in the car between towing behind something and just sitting there unused?While being towed, the CVT transmission is turning, it requires lubrication and cooling. Could it be the 12v electric transmission coolant oil pump running while being towed? A recording amp-meter would show that. (I have one.) Edited March 19, 2013 by Sparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanstri Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 The owner's manual instructs that you leave the key in accessory position while towing. It does not speak to keyless system but one would assume that you would dothe "touch button without your foot on the brake" thing. I think that this imposes enough drain to kill the battery over a days' time. Could it be the 12v electric transmission coolant pump running while being towed? A recording amp-meter would show that. (I have one.) This raises an interesting question - I manually defeated the shift interlock (by pulling off the shifter boot & moving the interlock lever). The car is free to roll and the steering is not locked. (I don't think the the C-Max locks the steering column at all.) All this, without having the ignition on at all. But if there is a trans lube pump that needs to run while being towed, my idea would not be too bright :( Does anyone from Ford visit this forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmckinley Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Wow! Scary thought on the transmission cooling pump needing to run while towing. This needs an experiment. My ScanGuage monitors transmission temperature on my motorhome, so I suspect it will do the same when hooked to the C Max. It also records a max temperature for the day or since reset. So a tow with ignition in accessory position and then a repeat with the manual interlock tripped and ignition off should reveal a possible transmission temperature difference. Now who wants to volunteer to run the experiment? We need someone with a C Max, a motorhome and a ScanGuage and some free time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmckinley Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Whoops, I just had a really scary thought. If the cooling pump needs to run when being towed, then what happens after the battery pukes after 150 miles. No pump after that. If it's really needed, then my trans is probably already trash since it has been towed probably 1,000 miles with the battery dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z32k12 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I'll be towing my CMAX behind our motorhome for the first time this weekend and I've just discovered this forum about battery discharge. Has anyone installed toad-charge or any type of charge system from their motorhome to the 12 volt battery? By the way I went to my dealer and after reading the owners manual he just advised to tow the car on a dolly...not the advice I was looking for after having the tow bracket installed! I also spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Ford and got worthless advice. First she suggested I disconnect the high voltage batteries. After informing her it was the 12 volt that was discharging she said to disconnect that. I then asked about how the cooling fans and transmission pumps would work...that quickly ended the discussion because she didn't understand what I was talking about. I'm considering either running a solar charger (I live in California so sun is usually available) or a Toad-Charger to keep the battery charged. I don't see how this could hurt anything but I thought I would check with those who have had the car for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmckinley Posted March 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I didn't run a charge line to the C Max because I was afraid of weird electrical interactions between the motorhome system and the car. After dragging this thing around for 3,300 miles and having to hook up the battery booster who knows how many times, I'm going to go on and install a charge line. After being run down about 30 times, I'm sure my 12V battery is ruined so i'm going to try to get Ford to replace it, hopefully with the larger version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z32k12 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Are you buying a toad charge are coming up with your own? By the way I had a K1200LT for years...great bike. Picked it up in Germany and rode it all over Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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