Anyone cross shop the Lexus CT200h?

[WheNRG]

I've just been noticing a lot of them on the road lately - I probably see more in a day than Cmaxes per week.  So I looked at the specs - it's basically a reskinned Prius with Leather.  For $3600 more than a Cmax SEL you get 54 HP less, 2/3 the cargo space, poorer fuel economy, and much less leg and head room.  It looks like there are a lot of expensive options that can push the price to well north of $40k too.  So what gives?  Does anyone see the value proposition for the Lexus over the Max, other than having the L on the hood and likely better dealer service? 

[plus 3 golfer]

I've just been noticing a lot of them on the road lately - I probably see more in a day than Cmaxes per week.  So I looked at the specs - it's basically a reskinned Prius with Leather.  For $3600 more than a Cmax SEL you get 54 HP less, 2/3 the cargo space, poorer fuel economy, and much less leg and head room.  It looks like there are a lot of expensive options that can push the price to well north of $40k too.  So what gives?  Does anyone see the value proposition for the Lexus over the Max, other than having the L on the hood and likely better dealer service? 

You got it "SA".

[mlsstl]

About 2 months ago a coworker of mine was given a CT200h as a loaner while his Lexus SUV was in the shop. While I was only a passenger that day, I was completely underwhelmed. No zip, the ride was mushy for a small car, the engine sounded like a dinky 4-banger and the interior didn't do much for me. My coworker was equally unimpressed.

 

This was before I'd driven a C-Max or ridden in another friend's Lincoln MKZ and the CT200h experience went a long way toward reconfirming my bias that hybrids were of no interest to me.

 

I suspect the posters above have it right. It's a status car name for someone who doesn't care much about driving and wants a hybrid but doesn't want to lower themselves to a mere Toyota.

[TopherTheME]

I cross shopped it but crossed it off the list for the reasons you mentioned. Higher price (more than my Energi Premium after incentives), less cargo space, completely gutless, and not that good of a ride or comfort. Granted its probably going to turn out to be a more reliable car in the end but not enough to justify the benefits of buying it over a Cmax Energi.

[zalusky]

All the same here.  It is so tight in front  I can't imagine why anybody would seriously consider it EVEN over the various Prius models.

[kostby]

Cross-shopped only in the vaguest sense.

 

I saw a CT200h in January 2014 at an auto show when I was just starting to seriously consider hybrids. Never visited a Lexus dealership.

I looked seriously at the Prius v Three at the time, talked to Toyota salespeople on the floor at the show, and gave them my info for a follow-up. (They sent a brochure, but no-one ever called or emailed to follow-up.)

Prius v was originally my first choice, until I discovered the C-MAX...

 

NOT a fan of the CT200h styling. Photos don't do them justice. They're far uglier in person.

http://www.lexus.com/models/CTh/colors/

 

The car looks like an amateurishly-drawn body kit was hastily applied to a stretched Toyota Matrix hatchwagon, with a few pieces that didn't fit, but were stuck on anyway and then fairings added to make them stay put.

I just don't understand the 'pinched grille' treatment the Lexus stylists seem determined to force on all of the models in the entire lineup. There's distinctive, and then there's just plain ugly.

The rear side view and 3/4 view just has odd proportions in a 2004 Nissan Quest (after the Renault styling-influence) sort of way.

 

Unfortunate choice to make imitation pleather (like the Toyota Prius v Five) the standard seating material except for the CT F Sport model where leather seating is an option, but WHO the heck wants a black headliner???

Interior space is tight, but OK if that's the size vehicle you want, and you choose to willingly pay extra for Prius technology with a Lexus price tag.

 

The Prius v is far better proportioned and IMO a better value, though it's possible to hit $38,000 list with a fully optioned Prius v Five.

Edited May 8, 2014 by kostby

[ScubaDadMiami]

Cross-shopped only in the vaguest sense.

I would put myself in the same place. I was passing a dealership, and I stopped in to take a quick look. Once I looked inside, I never went another step. There is almost no storage in the rear when the seats are up, and not enough with them down.

 

I was thinking along the lines of a Prius V, however, once I test drove the C-MAX, I was pretty much sold. I did go to a Toyota showroom to take a look at the Prius V, but I didn't even get to a point of talking to a salesperson or test driving.

[Laurel]

We first test drove the Prius C and it was way too small and uncomfortable.  We banged our heads on the ceiling getting in.  Then we drove the Prius V.  It was very utilatarian and sort of plastic like inside--did not have much in the way of pep on the freeway.  My husband liked it because of the space inside.  Then we drove the C-Max and ordered one.  I have to say when we are driving around I always mistake the Prius V for a C-Max.  There are a few Prius V's in the neighbourhood with a colour very similar to Ice Storm and we still have no other C-Maxes around here.  Meant to say that my husband loves the Lexus brand and thinks it is the best car going.  He misses his Lexus SUV but it was a gas guzzler.  I think the C-Max has a luxury car feel--good suspension, nice leather, wonderful panoramic roof,  nice solid feel to it.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Laurel

[plus 3 golfer]

I've been test driving the Prius since the 2008 MY hoping each year that Toyota would make a Prius that I would like but for the FE (who can't like the FE).   I also test drove the Lexus HS250h when it came out and didn't like it (my Jetta TDI was significantly better).  Then, when the CT200h came out, I thought this might be the car so I stopped to look at it.  I sat in it, looked around, got out, and told the salesman I'm not interested.  He said don't you want to test drive it, I said no because this is a Prius in Lexus clothing and left.

 

Then, thanks to darrelld's postings on TDIClub about his newly acquired C-Max, I said I think I have to make a trip to the Ford dealer.  To which he responded: "You won't regret making that trip. "  So a few week later after doing research I set out to test drive the Prius V and C-Max.   I stopped to test drive the Prius V first and again was not impressed with the Prius.  About 3 hours later I was driving my C-Max home.  Like I've said several times: the Sal and Family commercial is right on - whether it be a Prius or a CT200h.

[OGRE81]

I have both a 2013 CMAX and a 2013 CT200H in the family stable. Where the CMAX has more power and room it has had to have multiple visits to the dealer for issues from day one. The CT200H has been in once for an oil change an that's it. The CT200H has a different suspension than the Prius and has more power as well. I personally prefer the CMAX because it fits my needs better but the CT200H wins no question in reliability and quality of service from the dealer. I want to keep my CMAX but the repeated battery issues have me less than pleased. 

[plus 3 golfer]

...The CT200H has a different suspension than the Prius and has more power as well. I personally prefer the CMAX because it fits my needs better but the CT200H wins no question in reliability and quality of service from the dealer....

 

Performance of the Prius is better than CT200H except in handling.  The reliability of the C-Max is not good.

 

ll

[zalusky]

In my CMAX case I agree with the trunk rating and would add a turning radius complaint but I have had zero reliability issues other than the initial MFT glitches which are gone now.

My mileage after 15000 is 44.9 which is half highway and half city so I don't know whats up with people there.

Edited May 11, 2014 by zalusky

[HotPotato]

Gave it a look, but paying a premium for a reskinned Prius seemed a dubious move when the car is no faster, roomier, or prettier than its mechanical twin.

 

Then again, the same is true of the Audi A3---a more expensive, less roomy reskin of the previous-generation VW Golf---and Audi sells a few of those.

 

And heck, I seriously considered a Volvo C30, which could be considered a more expensive, less roomy reskin of a Mazda3 (with Volvo turbo power).

 

For some buyers, a premium interior, a pleasant dealer experience, and a name badge that passes muster with their snootier friends is worth the difference in price, and that's fine.

[mlsstl]

Actually, the Volvo C30 was discontinued the end of 2013. 

[Brent Bevil]

I cross shopped the CT200.  Loved the interior and how it looked like a regular car versus the shotgun approach of the prius.  The exterior kept reminding me of a hyundai or toyota matrix.  Ultimately the interior, pickup and ride of the cmax won me over.

[Jus-A-CMax]

I cross shopped the CT200.  Loved the interior and how it looked like a regular car versus the shotgun approach of the prius.  The exterior kept reminding me of a hyundai or toyota matrix.  Ultimately the interior, pickup and ride of the cmax won me over.

 

...thats the selling point of the CMax - Ford Motor Company (DO YOU HEAR US) should really focus on these aspects :skateboard:

[HotPotato]

Actually, the Volvo C30 was discontinued the end of 2013.

2013 is the year I shopped for a car and bought my C-Max. Your point escapes me.

[bigalpha]

Ultimately the interior, pickup and ride of the cmax won me over.

 

This was also a big selling point for me.  I have realized, though, that the interior is pretty sub-par, IMO.  Visors are useless, there's no front cabin storage, I have a lot of dash squeaks and rattles, multiple interior pieces had to be re-installed because they came loose, rear carpet came off twice (just had a piece of carpet come loose yesterday), AC vents don't adjust far enough down to not blow on my face, dash reflects in the windshield in sunny conditions, cup holders are kind of small, no adjustable center AC vents, poor AC options (only e.g. have 50/50 split options), mushy cruise control buttons, poor navigation/MFT system, etc.  Oh, and my rear driver door isn't painted all the way!

 

It's really a shame, though, because the car itself is solid.  I LOVE the drive train.  The car handles beautifully, I feel that the handling is crisp and I love driving it.  There's plenty of pep to it (hell yeah). 

 

In essence, whoever designed the chassis, drive train and related components really hit it out of the park.  Whoever designed the interior really missed the mark.

Edited June 17, 2014 by bigalpha

[fbov]

We must be driving different cars, or more likely, different cars in our past.

- visors are fine, my problem is all the chrome on the dash...

- no lack of storage; the center console is caverous!

- no squeaks or rattles

- nothing's fallen off in the interior

- the upper and lower AC vents cover everything I need vented

- dash reflection in the windshield is like most cars

- its cup holders didn't come from K-mart

- the center AC vent is adjustable for flow, at least

- heat/AC is dual zone (makes wife happy)

- cruise works fine, but on/off is in a bad spot

- Nav has worked fine for me, once I understood the "GPS off" issue

- MFT does what I ask

 

I will agree that the paint's not so great on the drivers' rear door, but that's from my Father-in-law wacking the door frame putting his walker in, before he passed away last year - no complaints there, either.

 

Perception is a funny thing; you're spot-on regarding the chassis and drive train! 

 

Frank

[bigalpha]

I don't know, I just don't think the interior received the same amount of effort as everything else.  Considering all the high tech in this car, you would think they could put extending visors in at least....

Don't really have many chips in the paint, but the inside of the door wasn't fully painted from the factory.  Musta been a Monday car :D

[Jus-A-CMax]

I have to agree with Frank, I have 31,000+ miles and the interior is still holding,well and nothing wrong. Nothing K-Mart here at all. Don't forget, my car was rear-ended as well so if anything, I should be hearing the squeeks.

 

The only complaint I have is the unfinished area right under the steeing wheel and back, it looks bad but my life in the car does not involve looking in that area - unless I am screwed, heading off the cliff and its my last chance to kiss my ass goodbye :drop:

[bigalpha]

*shrug*  Guess I'm just unlucky.  Having the AC blow directly on my face while I try to get the paper I have wedged in the mirror in the flap positioned to block the sun while the dash rattles over every bump kind of sucks.  Twas a sad day when the factory warranty ran out.  I've put about 40k on ours.  Don't get me wrong, the materials don't feel cheap and it looks nice, I just don't think it was designed very well.

[C-MaxSea]

I've got to agree with Frank & Jus - no sign. issues with the interior, rather an appreciation for the appropriate selection of materials & styling for a midrange vehicle.  In fact, it was the interior that put us over the hump on a purchase - not exactly our style, but ............  Addicted to leather ............... it had a BMW lite feel to it for us, better than expected.  (didn't hurt that the bezeled styling cues matched all of our media room components either   ;) )

 

I have even come to appreciate the raked dash which allows me to put my feet up (for medicinal reasons of course :)), so I'm a dead give away being the only dude driving down the road with his left foot on the dash (well officer it's like this.............).

 

Still two Germans & a Ford in the driveway, or is that three Germans? (The 93 BMW days are numbered)

 

( Oh, and the CT200h - tripple zonk, slow as molasses, no headroom, no storage space, a very slow toy car at best;  not even in the ballpark for our purposes )

 

(((Seriously, how can anything be slower than a Priiius?)))

Edited June 20, 2014 by C-MaxSea