New Transmission needed

[C-Max Run]

Hi Everyone,

 

 

First off, I want to say thank you for all the great information I've read here in the last year. I'm averaging 46.7 miles lifetime with a brake score of 93%. I really love the feel and weight of this car.  It drives like a champ. I'm not a hyper miler by any means and I think I drive this guy pretty well. It was actually pretty fun learning to drive a new way.

 

I purchased my C-Max a year ago on 7-7-13 for my commute from Lake Elsinore to Irvine. It's a 50 to 60 mile one way trip depending on which office I’m driving to. I drive Ortega Highway pretty much every day and for those of you who are not familiar with it, it is one of the nicest mountain roads in southern California. Or the most dangerous depending on whom you ask. It has a Sharp climb of about 5 winding miles going up about 1400 ft. and 23 miles of winding downhill (a drop of about 2500 ft.) till I reach the 5 Freeway. Then it's about 12 to 24 miles of normal freeway driving. Driving into work I average anywhere from 58-61 MPG and on the way home it drops anywhere from 43-45 depending on road and traffic conditions. On the way home i drop into downhill mode for the 5 miles of sharp twisted downhill driving. 

 

I brought my car in for an oil change and tire rotation on July 5th and after picking it up i noticed the car didn't feel right. It felt as if I was in Low gear and there was a definite hum when pressing the gas. I brought the car back in on Monday morning to have them take a look at it. After about 5 hours the service advisor gave me the news. They agree there is something wrong but they're not sure what it is. After running tests and diagnostics and sending them to Ford Engineers the solution is to replace the Transmission. They said the time frame should be 7-10 days. Thankfully they set me up with a rental at no charge.

 

I was just wondering if anyone here has had or heard about transmission issues. From the details of my daily drive I don't think I tax the transmission too badly. I was just wondering if the transmission issue could just be a one off or will similar driving patterns cause this issue again. I hope it was a one off and no one else will have this issue.

 

This has been public service announcement from C-Max Run

[wab]

OUCH

Welcome and Greetings

 

Here's a link for the taxi transmission SSM, located in the "Maintenance TSB's & Recalls" sub forum.

 

"Some 2013 C-MAX Hybrid and 2013-2014 Fusion Hybrid vehicles operating in taxi service may exhibit a metal-on-metal scraping-type sound from the transmission."

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/3094-ssm-44252-hybrids-in-taxi-service-hf35-transmission-bearing-noise/

 

Someone mentioned that their wife drove @ 70+MPH for a couple of hours in LOW, didn't hurt anything.

[Adrian_L]

Crikey.  Well if there is a silver lining you'll have a brand new tranny and from what I gather the newer ones have slightly better gear ratios. 

[wab]

We have over 6000 towed miles, car shows 25K miles.

 

Our tires, shocks, bearings, neutral,  etc have over 31K on them.

No problems.

[C-Max Run]

Wow. that was quick. Thanks Wab. I read through the posts. Not sure if it's a metal on metal scraping I hear. Sounds more bassy like a deep sounding hum rather than a  scraping sound. Almost like it was stuck between gears. I'll check with the service advisor when he has more information.

Adrian - A new tranny sounds good to me. as long as it's new and not a rebuild,

[plus 3 golfer]

I see 3 factors that may not bode well for your transmission: 1) your daily 23 miles of downhill driving likely requires very little use of ICE; 2) when the car is in motion, the traction motor and generator (when ICE is not spinning) are always spinning along with the associated internal hardware and 3) the transmission fluid could be getting too hot from no circulation and there could be inadequate lubrication.

 

From the Ford Service Manual for the Hybrid:  "the transmission fluid pump is an internal pump bolted to the transmission case. The transmission fluid pump is turned by the input shaft and circulates transmission fluid through the transmission for lubrication and through an oil-to-air cooler mounted in the front of the radiator for transmission cooling. The transmission fluid pump only operates when the engine is running."  To get around this for the Energi which can operate 20+ miles without ICE, the Energi has an external transmission pump to circulate fluid.

 

So, it's possible that the transmission fluid gets hot (but not enough to trigger a DTC) when going 23 miles downhill with very little circulation of the fluid through the cooler.  This my have contributed to the cause of the failure.  I'd press Ford / dealer as to what failed and why?  

[C-Max Run]

Thanks Plus 3. I also should've mentioned that on the 5 mile quick downhill in downhill mode when i come to a complete stop at the light at the end of the hill more often than not i can feel the car lurch forward when i come to a stop. Basically the Transmission feels like it pops back into it's normal gear. I think i read something about that being semi normal.

 

I will be pressing Ford for an answer as to why this transmission failed. I don't want to see anyone else having this issue. Hopefully Ford can learn from this.

[chrisl]

That's interesting-- I don't have quite the downhill that C-max Run does, but it's not all that different, either. I live at 1500 ft and work at sea level.  To leave my house to go almost anywhere starts with a 4-5 mile downhill that doesn't require ICE (and leaves the batter maxed well before the bottom).  I can make it to downtown LA (about 15 miles) almost without the ICE coming on, depending on whether I make the few lights in the flat sections and how fast I go down the 110.  I'm at about 11K miles and haven't noticed any issues so far.

[jmckinley]

I've towed mine 6,000 miles in neutral, engine off.  No problems.  I doubt that your downhill coast daily is the problem.

 

A more interesting question is; How come it was fine before the dealer worked on it and not so fine after they worked on it?

[plus 3 golfer]

Yes I thought about towing in neutral. But the difference is that in the 23 miles the HV system is likely charging and discharging the battery (using traction motor) many, many times in this downhill portion. There would be significantly more heat produced and significantly more load on the moving parts than when coasting. Poor lubrication of the "loaded" bearings / gears and so forth could cause abnormal wear that one would not see when coasting in neutral.

 

A quick calculation shows about 3.5+ kWh of energy that would be available from the 2500 foot hill.  This might get one 60-65% of the way.  Assume on flat ground that ICE might run 50% of the remaining miles,  So, that's maybe 4 miles on ICE and 19 miles of coasting in gear and EV operation with no fluid circulation.  The question is how much does ICE need to run (frequency and time) to provide adequate cooling and lubrication. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[C-Max Run]

Jmckinley - That's the golden question. I never noticed anything before bringing it in. Had the oil changed and tires rotated 4 times prior with no issues. I can't think of anything that they could've done that would cause this. Coincidence? Maybe.

 

Will try to get an update today. Not holding my breath. It's most likely still in transit.

[FordService]

Jmckinley - That's the golden question. I never noticed anything before bringing it in. Had the oil changed and tires rotated 4 times prior with no issues. I can't think of anything that they could've done that would cause this. Coincidence? Maybe.

 

Will try to get an update today. Not holding my breath. It's most likely still in transit.

 

C-Max Run,

 

It sounds like your dealer is taking good care of you with the loaner and getting things squared away. If you need a hand at any point, send me a PM with your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info. I'll see what else I can do.

 

Ashley

[C-Max Run]

Hi Ashley,

 

So far so good with the dealer. I haven't heard from them since last Thursday but I expected that since the part had to be shipped. I'll call today and see if they have an update for me.

[ptjones]

Hi Ashley,

 

So far so good with the dealer. I haven't heard from them since last Thursday but I expected that since the part had to be shipped. I'll call today and see if they have an update for me.

You left out one important bit of info how many miles do you have? :)

 

Paul

[C-Max Run]

Damn. I thought i had that in the first post. Too many numbers going on in there.

If i can remember correctly i have approx. 29,945 miles. Long commutes are always so much fun.

[ptjones]

Damn. I thought i had that in the first post. Too many numbers going on in there.

If i can remember correctly i have approx. 29,945 miles. Long commutes are always so much fun.

Approx. 29.945mi? LOL :)  I long time ago I use to drive that route from Costa Mesa to look at the Stars.

 

Paul

[C-Max Run]

I guess that was a pretty good approximation.  :)   Wife and I moved out there from Irvine a year and a half ago. Got a great deal on a new home. Luckily i like to drive. Ortega is a really fun run. At least when you have other drivers who know how to drive it.  The C-Max handles that road really well. The loaner is a Chevy Sonic. Not bad on the MPG but it's like driving a tin can compared to the max.

Edited July 17, 2014 by C-Max Run

[ptjones]

Did they widen the road from 30+ years ago, It was pretty tricky driving at night. :)

 

Paul

Edited July 17, 2014 by ptjones

[C-Max Run]

Road is wider and paved. A few bigger turnouts. Still have to watch out for the crotch rockets though, As long as you respect the road you'll be fine.

[John Sparks]

Do you use hill descent control to maintain your speed? If so if will engage the ICE to maintain your speed. May not run constantly but it will come on.

[C-Max Run]

I do use hiil descent to maintain speed. ICE turns on after I'm fully charged.Display goes from blue to white.

 

Spoke to the service advisor yesterday and my Max should be ready today. The Tran arrived last Thursday and it's a huge job to replace. They did bust a vacum hose and had to order another one that should arrive this morning. Hopefully it will be ready today.

[ptjones]

Road is wider and paved. A few bigger turnouts. Still have to watch out for the crotch rockets though, As long as you respect the road you'll be fine.

The road was paved 40 years ago. LOL But wider would be a big improvement. :)

 

Paul

[C-Max Run]

But now it's really nicely paved  :happy feet:  . At least the Orange County side is. Very smooth downhill ride through the canyon. Riverside County side is a few years older but still much better than it was years ago.

[C-Max Run]

Just got the call from my service advisor. My Max won't be ready today. He said it should be ready tomorrow. At this point I don't care when it's ready as long as it repaired correctly. Stay tuned.

[fbov]

 ...I long time ago I use to drive that route from Costa Mesa to look at the Stars.

I knew there was a reason I liked you... RocheStar Fest starts tomorrow, and I do much of the cooking... my freezer is full of brisket, pulled pork and beef BBQ, with a quartet of turkey breasts in the refrigerator that will spend the night under brine for smoking tomorrow.

Frank