Energi but not use the plug / Pointless?

[Hybrid dude]

Would there be any point in getting an Energi if one doesn't have an easy way to plug it in, for example, living in an apartment building?

In other words, can an Energi recharge itself, simply by driving and braking, and thus be able to go 20+ miles on EV without being plugged in?

 

Or, would it require so many more driving miles to charge that the savings wouldn't be worth it?

 

Disregard cargo space and price for this hypothetical situation.

[Wnuk]

Those with an energi may know more but i believe the energi have two HV batteries. The larger batter is for the 20 miles on EV alone. Once that batter depletes then you are running on the second smaller batter in hybrid mode like a regular CMAX. The larger battery does not get recharged by coasting, braking, or ICE runs. It needs to be plugged in to recharge it.

[plus 3 golfer]

Would there be any point in getting an Energi if one doesn't have an easy way to plug it in, for example, living in an apartment building?

In other words, can an Energi recharge itself, simply by driving and braking, and thus be able to go 20+ miles on EV without being plugged in?

 

Or, would it require so many more driving miles to charge that the savings wouldn't be worth it?

 

Disregard cargo space and price for this hypothetical situation.

 

Probably not unless you have access to public charging stations and can spend the time necessary to allow a full charge.

 

There is only one HVB (not two like Wnuk believes).  It's my understanding that when the EV allocated portion of the HVB is depleted, the NRG operates in "hybrid mode".   So,in normal driving, the PCM algorithm would operate the system like a C-Max Hybrid. There would likely be little opportunity to increase energy storage much beyond the normal limits of hybrid operation.  One exception would be If you had significant elevation change for many miles, there would likely be excess energy that could be captured and stored in the NRG that would otherwise go to waste in the Hybrid once the HVB in the Hybrid was full.

 

I'm not aware of any way to run ICE in the NRG solely to charge the HVB.  Even if there was a way, it would be significantly less efficient to charge the NRG with ICE vs kWh from the local utility.

[jdbob]

I'm not aware of any way to run ICE in the NRG solely to charge the HVB.  Even if there was a way, it would be significantly less efficient to charge the NRG with ICE vs kWh from the local utility.

 

Unfortunately there isn't. Normally it would be very inefficient to charge the HVB from the ICE. However there are good reasons to have that mode and other manufacturers offer it (even the Volt I think). For instance, if you find yourself entering a city center where there a fees for emissions or where only emissions free vehicles are allowed and you've already gone into hybrid mode. These restrictions are coming soon to some European cities, and who knows, maybe even to the states in a couple of decades.

 

There is nothing in the hardware to prevent an Energi model from doing this, it's just a matter of Ford doing the software, yeah - right. I'd be surprised if they ever fixed the bug where it drops out of EV-Later when you turn the car on and off.

[drdiesel1]

With the NGR you can add EV miles to the battery after the hybrid portion has been filled up. I have been able to

add 7 miles of EV power by regen on hill descents out here in CA. I could have managed more, but wanted to use

the EV power. The other advantage of the NRG is if you live in an area that has carpool lanes, it qualifies for HOV

stickers (here in CA anyways) so you can run the lane with only 1 person in the car if you get the stickers.

 

IMO, the rebates on the NRG make it about the same price as a Hybrid. You could always change area's/living places

in the future and utilize the EV charging part of the car. If you didn't buy the NRG, you wouldn't be able to if things changed.

The price aside, I would only buy the NRG.........It's the only choice for me even if, I couldn't use the plug-in charging right away.

 

For me, battery overhead is the only shortcoming of the Hybrid C-Max.

You'll learn to add EV mileage to the battery over time and you'll be glad you purchased the NRG, IMO :happy feet:

Edited August 23, 2014 by drdiesel1

[SnowStorm]

Haven't I also heard that the NRG has a compressor driven heater (a heat pump) so you can have heat without running the ICE?

[drdiesel1]

Haven't I also heard that the NRG has a compressor driven heater (a heat pump) so you can have heat without running the ICE?

Nope. It has an electric heating element with a closed loop control valve to circulate coolant into the heater core without

warming the engine block. It works off the HVB power supply.

Edited August 23, 2014 by drdiesel1

[Adrian_L]

Sorry, what is NRG? Just an abbreviation of ENERGI? 

[drdiesel1]

Sorry, what is NRG? Just an abbreviation of ENERGI? 

YES.

[Adrian_L]

I can understand how ICE is handy to avoid writing "Internal Combustion Engine". 

 

But IMHO we can all muster up the energy to type ENERGI, no?

TTYL

[drdiesel1]

I can understand how ICE is handy to avoid writing "Internal Combustion Engine". 

 

But IMHO we can all muster up the energy to type ENERGI, no?

 

TTYL

It's become NRG, just like all the other acronyms since the early 80's and especially in the hybrid sites.

[hybridbear]

Would there be any point in getting an Energi if one doesn't have an easy way to plug it in, for example, living in an apartment building?

In other words, can an Energi recharge itself, simply by driving and braking, and thus be able to go 20+ miles on EV without being plugged in?

 

Or, would it require so many more driving miles to charge that the savings wouldn't be worth it?

 

Disregard cargo space and price for this hypothetical situation.

Have you talked to your apartment management about an EV? Do you have an assigned parking space? Do you park in a garage or outside?

 

I brought up the idea casually to our community manager at our apartment complex last winter. One day I was at the office to pick up a package and he came over to me excitedly to say that the family that owns our apartment complex is a big fan of EVs and that they want to encourage residents to "go green" by driving electric. That set things in motion where now we have a Focus Electric. Our community manager is planning to get an EV soon to replace his 8-cyl turbo Mercedes that gets less than 15 MPG and costs him over $100/week in gasoline.

 

You never know what can happen if you ask the question.

Edited August 23, 2014 by hybridbear

[Hybrid dude]

Thanks for the advice. It's a condo and yes, I have an assigned outside spot. I also do a lot of work with the association. I'm sure if I wanted a charging station, I could convince the trustees, but I would have to pay the entire bill, which, from various electrician's quotes, will be thousands, not including the actual charging unit.

[fotomoto]

Just for grins after seeing this thread I tried to see how much I could regen on a short highway trip on level roads while in hybrid mode with a depleted battery.  I have a scangauge II that gives me the battery SOC in numerical percentages.  I was able to charge 10% back (3 miles estimate) by simply switching back to "EV Now" mode before I came to a full stop from highway speeds (55-70mph) and returning to "EV Later" (hybrid mode) before taking off.  I will now add this strategy to my out of town trips!   :shift:

 

 

Yes, there are some owners who only get charges from public stations, work, or visiting family/friends.  Then there are others who never charge and only bought a PHEV for the HOV stickers.

Edited August 24, 2014 by fotomoto

[drdiesel1]

Just for grins after seeing this thread I tried to see how much I could regen on a short highway trip on level roads while in hybrid mode with a depleted battery.  I have a scangauge II that gives me the battery SOC in numerical percentages.  I was able to charge 10% back (3 miles estimate) by simply switching back to "EV Now" mode before I came to a full stop from highway speeds (55-70mph) and returning to "EV Later" (hybrid mode) before taking off.  I will now add this strategy to my out of town trips!   :shift:

 

 

Yes, there are some owners who only get charges from public stations, work, or visiting family/friends.  Then there are others who never charge and only bought a PHEV for the HOV stickers.

You don't need to switch back and forth to gain an EV charge buildup.  Just leave it in EV later and continue to build it.

[drdiesel1]

Thanks for the advice. It's a condo and yes, I have an assigned outside spot. I also do a lot of work with the association. I'm sure if I wanted a charging station, I could convince the trustees, but I would have to pay the entire bill, which, from various electrician's quotes, will be thousands, not including the actual charging unit.

You do know the NRG comes with a 120 voltage charging cord, right ? Most condo's have a 120 volt outlet in/near the parking stalls.

The supplied charger has a 25 foot cord. If an outlet is close, just plug it in.

Edited August 24, 2014 by drdiesel1

[Adrian_L]

Um........you could get in alot of trouble plugging in your Energi into parking lot 120v outlets.  Most strata councils and/or landlords would object to drivers helping themselves to electricty that is communal.  It's one thing to plug in your vacuum for 20 minutes...

[Hybrid dude]

Nice to know it comes with a 110 cord and aware of communal electricity consequences, the depiction of which would perhaps make a funny New Yorker cartoon.

[hybridbear]

Thanks for the advice. It's a condo and yes, I have an assigned outside spot. I also do a lot of work with the association. I'm sure if I wanted a charging station, I could convince the trustees, but I would have to pay the entire bill, which, from various electrician's quotes, will be thousands, not including the actual charging unit.

Is there an electrical supply near your space? As is mentioned above all you'd need is a 120V outlet, nothing more.

 

Our apartment complex paid for the 240V EVSE unit for us because they want to encourage residents to switch to EVs. They have an electrician on the maintenance staff who could do the installation. They did not bother to run this circuit to a separate meter because that would have been expensive. They just wired our 240V charging station into an existing panel that had open capacity. We then pay them a fixed rate of $35 per month for our electricity use. This was calculated based on a couple assumptions:

1. We'll drive about 1000 miles/month
2. We'll achieve the EPA rating for Wh/mi which accounts for charging losses

To validate these assumptions we're using one of the trip odometers to track our monthly mileage and electricity use. I then save these pictures and send them to our community manager.

 

You might be able to work out a similar arrangement.

 

Their goal was to promote EV adoption by residents by providing free access to 240V EVSEs for any residents who own a plug-in vehicle. They also do not want to make a profit on the electricity because they believe that would be unethical, thus the method for calculating electricity use and payment. However, payment must be simple, thus the fixed amount per month.

[drdiesel1]

35 bucks it what I see as additional on my PG&E bill, so that's a great deal you have with the management.

[MichaelM]

At one point in time our local power company had a rebate program (up to $2500) to help with the cost of installing a 240v EV charging station for homeowners. Don't know if it could extend to condo/apartment complexes, but may be worth investigating. I decided to go with hybrid C-Max so I don't know if it was only during the initial gov't rebate phase or if it was a green initiative that is ongoing. 

 

Plug-in Electric Vehicle Incentive Program

To help customers make the transition to using plug-in electric vehicles in Michigan, Consumers Energy is offering a limited incentive program for home charging stations.

Qualified Consumers Energy electric customers who enroll in the program will be able to receive a reimbursement of up to $2,500 from Consumers Energy to help cover the purchase, installation and required home wiring of a Level 2 charging station.
Any cost or expenses beyond $2,500 are the responsibility of the customer.

This program is limited only to the first 2,500 participants.

Get the PEV Reimbursement Application and download the Consumers Energy's Plug-in 

Edited September 2, 2014 by MichaelM

[Hybrid dude]

Since a lot of time has gone by since the date of my original post, and there are many more C-Max owners, I'd like to know if anyone has further thoughts on this topic of using an Energi but never plugging it in.

 

Thanks

[livesmith]

Since a lot of time has gone by since the date of my original post, and there are many more C-Max owners, I'd like to know if anyone has further thoughts on this topic of using an Energi but never plugging it in.

 

Thanks

I've got a 2013 Energi.  If you got one and never plugged it in you'd only be at a negative state.

-You'd spend more money to get the car

-You'd spend more money on gas since you'd get worse mileage.(more weight in the car and a lower final drive ratio)

 

If you don't plug it in, you've essentially got a slightly worse version of the C-Max Hybrid.

 

That said, if you happened to go down something like Pike's Peak routinely then yes you would be able to fill up the larger battery and use it later so in that particular scenario you *might* end up with better overall mileage depending on conditions...

[stevedebi]

Since a lot of time has gone by since the date of my original post, and there are many more C-Max owners, I'd like to know if anyone has further thoughts on this topic of using an Energi but never plugging it in.

 

Thanks

I keep track of the cost of electric, and calculate if it would be cheaper to run gas only in my Energi. So far I'm still saving around 4-5 bucks per fill up. It all depends on how expensive the gas is and how much electricity costs. I think the break even point is around 2 dollars at the moment here. But gas is at 2.75 in LA right now, and electric is around 14.5 cents per KWH.

 

You would be lugging around 300 extra lbs of weight, but it would achieve good MPG in town. I get 45 when I go all hybrid mode in town.

 

For a new purchase, it makes little sense, unless the price is the same for the Energi and Hybrid because of incentives. It was pretty close when I leased in 2014.

[markd]

I don't have an Energi but I spend $175 a month for electricity and $20 a month for gas. I didn't think it was worthwhile.