driving in winter?

[Cat Max]

So Ive seen my Max go from a healthy 40ish MPG to now (gasp!) nosediving to 35MPG... even with only heated seats no climate... its been in the teens and twenties here and it seems like when it goes bellow 25F its spectacularly hard to get it into EV mode.

 

What I was doing before was letting off the gas until EV mode kicked in then a gental accerlation and staying in EV but I am finding with it super cold it just won't even go into EV mode at all.

 

You guys got any winter tips?

[drdiesel1]

In colder climates there are a lot of people using grill blocks, but it will require you to have

a Scan Gauge II so you can monitor coolant temperatures to make sure you don't

cause any engine damage from an over heat situation. Cold engines us a lot more fuel.

 

The grill blocks will help maintain higher engine temperatures and allow the vehicle to

operate in a normal way. It's the same thing with diesel engines. You tune the grill block

off to the cars max maintianed/average temperature of around 200°F by using the scan gauge II

and monitoring that PID to make sure it never gets higher than 230°F.

 

IT will bring your MPG's back to a more normal level, but remember that short trips will always kill

fuel economy no matter what modifications you do to keep engine temps up.

It needs to run to make heat and until warmed up the fuel consumption will be higher. Look around

the site and you'll find a lot of info. on this subject.

[Cat Max]

Thanks drdiesel... that sounds interesting, I guess if I buy a Scan Gauge that means that I have crossed over into a serious saveur, yes? :)

[drdiesel1]

Uh, yes ;)

[Bugblndr]

The only winter tip I can offer is to move somewhere warmer.  You're going to take a hit on fuel economy whether you are driving a hybrid or a conventional vehicle.  Winter gas gives worse fuel economy, longer warm up times hurt as well.  

 

Since moving to a warmer locale isn't a reality to me, I just accepted my fate.  Then again, I have a remote car starter for my Highlander Hybrid and ordered my C-Max with one as well so being comfortable is more important to me than a couple of bucks worth of gasoline.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Bugblndr

[scottwood2]

This is a very different vehicle for cold weather driving.  I am not one to warm up vehicles.  Mileage on my xB maybe dropped from 30 to 29 or 28 in cold weather.  It mainly was not the cold, it was the snow.  It is hard to drive through snow so the mileage went down. 

 

Now I did expect the C-Max to drop but there are a few things I learned that I did not expect:

 

• Keeping in EV mode, as was posted here, keeping it in EV mode with the heater on seems to lower the threshold for tuning on ICE.  Temp in the cabin seems good, fan speed down with it on Auto so I don't understand why sometimes it goes in EV but barely touch the pedal and ICE is running again.  I turn off the heater and the lower threshold is gone.  It does seem to be part of the warm up cycle though because a longer drive time stops this from happening. 
• Engine on due to cold but only sometimes.  I can sometimes get the car going and the ICE will start (Heater off).  Other times I can do the same thing and the ICE will not start at all until I drain the battery. I don't think this is related to SOC as I think it happens with a full charge.  Now once the ICE does run it will go through the normal warm up cycle. 
• I have had short trips in the upper 20's MPG but have found on longer trips that the FE is not affected that much by lower temperatures.  I drove over 30 miles the other day in the city with pretty cold temperatures and still got 47 MPG. Sure i can probably get 60 in warm weather but 47 is more than I thought I would get. Outside temp was about 10 degrees or so. 

I am not complaining here, just a few things I am trying to understand. 

 

On the other hand I wondered if I could do the heated seats only thing with no cabin heat.  At first I did not think so but I found that the seat heaters work great and I have no problem going without heat for the first part of the trip. Sometime on short runs I do not use cabin heat at all.  I do wish there was a way to run the fan without heat.  WIndows do sometimes fog up. 

[Cat Max]

Agree with you on all points, I also was doing the heated seats until until Badger warms up, just yesterday I was able to do a 30 mile drive, about 20 of it on EV the trip being overall 45.6 MPG. 

 

Though I live only a short way from my office so the car doesnt have time to warm up and it kills the overal MPGs

[Smiling Jack]

....................

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................  I do wish there was a way to run the fan without heat.  WIndows do sometimes fog up. 

 

Try this:

 

Turn climate control on with a low temperature setting, A/C off and defrost off.  Set fan speed manually.

 

If the outside temperature is not too cold, this might get you some air circulation without forcing ICE on.  If this does not clear the windows, try turning the A/C on for a short time.   A/C-on will blow some cool dry air and clear some fog - sometimes more quickly than the heat would do the job.  The A/C will use some battery charge, but it will not automatically start the ICE.  This works for me at temperatures down to the high 30s (F).  I have not had the opportunity to try it at colder temperatures yet.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Smiling Jack

[fbov]

Entering my second C-Max winter, the only add from me is to set the heat at 60F.

 

I've found that setting climage control temperature to 60 allows heat to be on, with minimal impact on EV capability once you get into EV. One still needs to warm the engine to get heat, but once a little warm, this greatly improves my EV drivability. Bumping the temp up just a little, 62-63, negates the benefit; you must set it to 60.

 

We're in single digits recent mornings, and I've been able to achieve low-mid 30's MPGs down to 0F this year, on the same route that gave me 55-60 MPG in August.

 

Have fun,

Frank

[scottwood2]

Thx for the great climate control tips.  I will have to try those.  I did notice a big difference between 69 and 65 deg F.  Never tried 60. 

[nsteblay]

I'm in Minnesota (Twin Cities) and the weather has been warmer than last year - still cold compared to most states.  My commute has also increased to 32 miles one way.  I've been averaging 41.5 MPG over the past 1200 miles.  Last year at this time I was lower 30s.  

 

Reasons why ...

• No wicked polar vortex this winter.
• I do believe the longer the drive the less temperature impacts (but it does still have an impact).  I had a shorter commute last year.
• I've been getting better and better at driving for optimal mileage.  You've got to know when to punch it and know when to glide it (I always put that to a Kenny Rogers tune in my head)

My goal this winter was to maintain over 40 MPG.  I think I'll be there.  I don't skimp on the heat - keep the car seats on the temp set at 70.  I am very happy with the CMax this winter.  

[Ponypower]

Living in Chicago IL, My life time average is 44.2. Since beginning of winter it has dropped 3 mpg. In short trips to the store and such my mpg drops to the higher 30's.  I guess this is not too bad, Im happy. Today being below 0' degrees outside I don't know if the ice will even shut off.

[scottwood2]

Just started dong Fuelly and my second fill up came back with 34 MPG.   :cry: Mostly freeway driving and a high of like 6 degrees today.  I think it might be off somewhat because I only put in less then 5 gallons.  Car stated more like 43 avg on this tank

[homestead]

We have had a mild winter in Oregon so far, lately temps have been like spring.

Last 2 days over 60 degrees.  MPGs going back up.  Flowers popping up a month early.

Sorry for the nasty winter Northeasterners are getting.  Spring is coming!

[SnowStorm]

We have had a mild winter in Oregon so far, lately temps have been like spring.

Last 2 days over 60 degrees.  MPGs going back up.  Flowers popping up a month early.

Sorry for the nasty winter Northeasterners are getting.  Spring is coming!

"Global" warming?  "Regional" perhaps.  (All this warming stuff leaves SnowStorm worried!)  We're headed for -6F this week!  Maybe its just the poles shifting.

 

Back to the car - what causes it to start the ICE when its cold and the heat is OFF and SOC half way up or more?  The Enterprise is normally garaged but this weekend it was outside at about 30F and 20F and both times ICE started as soon as I turned the car on.  SOC was noted on the colder morning at about 80%.  Why is the ICE starting right off?  Is there something else that requires heating?

[homestead]

"Global" warming?  "Regional" perhaps.  (All this warming stuff leaves SnowStorm worried!)  We're headed for -6F this week!  Maybe its just the poles shifting.

 

Back to the car - what causes it to start the ICE when its cold and the heat is OFF and SOC half way up or more?  The Enterprise is normally garaged but this weekend it was outside at about 30F and 20F and both times ICE started as soon as I turned the car on.  SOC was noted on the colder morning at about 80%.  Why is the ICE starting right off?  Is there something else that requires heating?

ICE starting immediately , I hate it when that happens. 

I think it's trying to warm up the high voltage battery compartment.

[fbov]

I'm in Minnesota (Twin Cities) ...No wicked polar vortex this winter.

What, last year's never subsided? We're tying low temperature records these last few days.

[Digital Penguin]

Just got my 2014 Energi, so I have nothing but cold weather driving experience with the vehicle, still extremely happy with my mileage Have close to 700 miles (678) on my first 3/4 of tank! Haven't had to hit a gas station yet! but I have using EV only mode for most of the driving.
Really looking forward to some warmer weather so I can see how this car will really excel!

[scottwood2]

Back to the car - what causes it to start the ICE when its cold and the heat is OFF and SOC half way up or more?  The Enterprise is normally garaged but this weekend it was outside at about 30F and 20F and both times ICE started as soon as I turned the car on.  SOC was noted on the colder morning at about 80%.  Why is the ICE starting right off?  Is there something else that requires heating?

I see this all the time.  I have not seen a pattern yet.  Sometimes it starts and sometimes I can drive and drain the battery.  It is more than the SOC and the climate control.  Something triggers it. 

[ptjones]

So Ive seen my Max go from a healthy 40ish MPG to now (gasp!) nosediving to 35MPG... even with only heated seats no climate... its been in the teens and twenties here and it seems like when it goes bellow 25F its spectacularly hard to get it into EV mode.

 

What I was doing before was letting off the gas until EV mode kicked in then a gental accerlation and staying in EV but I am finding with it super cold it just won't even go into EV mode at all.

 

You guys got any winter tips?

Check out my Grill Covers Posts and Block and Oil Pan Heater Post.  Yesterday with outside temp of 20*F I made several trips for a total of 26mi and averaged about 52.5MPG. That's what Grill Covers will do for you. :)

 

Paul

[fbov]

Back to the car - what causes it to start the ICE when its cold and the heat is OFF and SOC half way up or more?  ...

Not likely in your case, but in severe cold, the car will not discharge the HVB directly. By severe, I mean an overnight low below 0F. It was -14F last night, and after 20 miles of ICE running at highway speeds, EV+ would only give me 1.5 bars with ~80% SOC. I never had enough EV available to do any gliding at highway speeds, even downhill, foot off the throttle. Bested the last couple days by using negative split mode extensively, for a 35MPG highway commute, up from 32.5 when EV was available (similar ambient temps while driving, same route).

 

It's all about the overnight cold soak this February, which is on track for the coldest month on record here. This winter's been postiviely Canadian, eh!

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[ptjones]

Why doesn't someone try putting an electric heater in the back area to keep the HVB warmer like 32 degreesF. It would be interesting to see if it would work. :)

 

Paul

[Zathrus]

Back to the car - what causes it to start the ICE when its cold and the heat is OFF and SOC half way up or more?  The Enterprise is normally garaged but this weekend it was outside at about 30F and 20F and both times ICE started as soon as I turned the car on.  SOC was noted on the colder morning at about 80%.  Why is the ICE starting right off?  Is there something else that requires heating?

 

 

ICE starting right off?  Is there something else that requires heating?  -- The transmission fluid pump in the HEV model C-Max is run only when when ICE is on. Perhaps when transmission fluid is REALLY cold, ICE turns on at startup so transmission pump runs to add some residual heat to transmission fluid?  This is just a SWAG on my part.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Zathrus

[ptjones]

ICE starting right off?  Is there something else that requires heating?  -- The transmission fluid pump in the HEV model C-Max is run only when when ICE is on. Perhaps when transmission fluid is REALLY cold, ICE turns on at startup so transmission pump runs to add some residual heat to transmission fluid?  This is just a SWAG on my part.

I don't think that would heat up Trans Fluid, more likely cool it. Now pumping Trans Fluid to lubricate the transmission makes sense, the ICE automatically comes on the first time you hit 35MPH if it hasn't been on already. Transmission will heat up quicker if the pump isn't on because of less fluid to transfer the heat generated from the Transmission. :)

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Not likely in your case, but in severe cold, the car will not discharge the HVB directly. By severe, I mean an overnight low below 0F. It was -14F last night, ....

Hey, we've been down to at least -6F!  Now its true that our car is usually garaged but that doesn't stop ICE starting.  I wanted to pull it up a foot so I could get the snowblower out so I thought, "it will all be EV mode - no need to open garage door", but ICE starts right up and proceeds to gas me out!  That's in the garage - maybe 40F.  I think it starts right up before you even try to move.

 

Why doesn't someone try putting an electric heater in the back area to keep the HVB warmer like 32 degreesF. It would be interesting to see if it would work. :)

Yeah, I was just thinking that before I got down to your post.  Blow the warm air down the inlet ducts beside the rear windows - something like this!