TSB 14-0214 HF35 TRANSMISSION - THUMPING/RUBBING OR GRINDING NOISE

[Bill-N]

Publication Date: November 13, 2014

 

FORD: 2013-2014 C-MAX, Fusion

LINCOLN: 2013-2014 MKZ

 

This article supersedes TSB 14-0176 to update the service procedure due to service tool compatability.

 

ISSUE:

Some 2013-2014 C-MAX, Fusion and MKZ vehicles equipped with an HF35 transmission may exhibit a thumping/rubbing or grinding noise coming from the transmission. The noise may be present in all gear ranges including neutral when the vehicle is moving, but will not be present when the vehicle is stationary or in Park.

 

ACTION:

Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition. 

 

SERVICE PROCEDURE

1. With the vehicle at operating temperature, road test the vehicle and lightly apply the brakes from 48-16 Km/h (30-10 MPH).
   1. The engine shuts-off on deceleration when the vehicle is at operating temperature.

2. Is a thumping/rubbing or grinding noise present?
   1. No - this article does not apply. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 307-01 for normal diagnosis.
   2. Yes - proceed to Step 3.

3. Install new transmission assembly. Refer to WSM, Section 307-01.
   1. Flush transmission fluid cooling system. Refer to WSM, Section 307-02. 

Edited February 4, 2015 by Bill-N

[Bill-N]

C-Max transmission is being replaced under warranty.  It's been at the dealer for almost a month (new transmissions are not easily obtained).  The dealer has provided a loaner and has been as responsive to my needs as can be expected.  I've asked for an eight year, 100k warranty on the new transmission; time will tell how far I get with that request.

 

As to symptoms, the most repeatable was a "ballsy" grinding noise when the car was barely moving, i.e. at a walking pace.  If you hear this get your car to the dealer.

 

All-in-all, a bummer, but being handled well IMHO.  I surely do miss the C-max; the Fusion loaner pales in comparison.

[Bill-N]

FYI, 2+ weeks using new transmission.  So far, so good.  Nice and quiet again.  :-)

[FordService]

FYI, 2+ weeks using new transmission.  So far, so good.  Nice and quiet again.  :-)

Thanks for the update, and for sharing the great news, Bill-N!

 

Let me know if you need anything, and enjoy the rest of your day.  :)

 

Tricia 

[cmax-nynj]

so this noise only happens when throttle is not applied?

[Bill-N]

so this noise only happens when throttle is not applied?

That's the easiest to repeat.  The initial symptom I noticed was a whining noise while driving.  This happened in all gears, including neutral, and whether or not accelerating or coasting.  It almost sounded like tires whining and was first noticed on the trip home from South Carolina after Thanksgiving.

[ptjones]

It would have been nice if you were able to get TFT while this was happening. It would be nice to know if this problem cause a rise in TFT. :)

 

Paul

[Kelleytoons]

But does the original 8 year, 100K warranty apply to the transmission?  I thought it was only for the electrics.

[ptjones]

Yes it does as I'm going thru the process now. :)

 

Paul

[Kelleytoons]

Well, in that case the poster who thought it was prudent to get an extended warranty is even more wrong (at least in terms of what "normal" folks might do).

 

Everyone needs to weigh these things based on their own driving and needs, but if you have to pay, say, $2K extra over the course of your car's lifetime for a warranty that isn't likely to have a payout of even half that, you are making a poor choice.  As I said in that other thread, insurance companies know VERY well the odds far better than we ever do, and they NEVER lose money on any situation.  There are times when it's prudent to get insurance regardless of the odds (a catastrophic circumstance, for example) but by and large most folks are insurance poor when they don't have to be.

 

In my case a tranny that's covered for 8 years, 100K is WAY more than I ever need to worry about.

[hybridbear]

As I said in that other thread, insurance companies know VERY well the odds far better than we ever do, and they NEVER lose money on any situation. 

This isn't true. Insurance companies make mistakes too. I'd bet that right now the ESP for the Ford hybrids is a good deal. It may increase significantly in price soon if Ford is paying out too many claims under the ESP on these cars.

 

A local insurance company badly miscalculated their costs when entering the Obamacare Exchange and

 

paid out $1.31 in claims for every dollar coming in (http://www.startribune.com/business/279332032.html)

They hopefully had reinsurance to protect them from their actuarial mistake.

[rjam]

Hi how do you know if your 2013 cmax has this transmission listed on service buliton. Reference HF35. I have a thumping sound like that of a flat tire at most any speed.

Thanks

[howcook]

Yes it does as I'm going thru the process now. :)

 

Paul

ptjones...  

 

Looks like I am in this boat. Uggg... So what do I tell (or ask) the service manager with regards to the 8y 100K coverage of the trans. Just want to be prepared! Any guidance here would be most helpful.

[howcook]

Never mind. Wheww ... I see it spelled out pretty clearly in the warranty book:

 

) Your vehicle’s unique hybrid / electric components are covered during the Hybrid / Electric Unique Component Coverage, which lasts for eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

 

• The following hybrid parts are covered during this extended coverage period: high-voltage battery, hybrid continuously variable transmission, Inverter System Controller (ISC), DC/DC converter, high-voltage battery connector, battery pack fan assembly, thermistor probe, Hybrid Battery Pack Sensor Module (HBPSM), Battery Energy Control Module (BECM), and the PHEV onboard charger.

 

• The following Focus Electric unique parts are covered during this extended coverage period: high-voltage battery packs, high voltage charger, DC/DC convertor, Electric Drive Module Assembly (includes electric motor and gearbox), trans range and charge cord.

[Bill-N]

Hi how do you know if your 2013 cmax has this transmission listed on service buliton. Reference HF35. I have a thumping sound like that of a flat tire at most any speed.

Thanks

 

I don't have an answer for you (wish drdiesel was still around; he would have known).  My car was "born" in August of 2012 so it certainly had an early version of the transmission.

 

I can say, the easiest way for me to demonstrate the problem was to have the car coast very slowly (i.e. walking pace), in neutral, with the engine, radio, climate control, etc., all off.  I, and the dealer repairman, could clearly hear a grinding noise coming from the front of the car.  Rolling a tin can with loose gravel in it will make a similar sound.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Bill-N

[HotPotato]

Uh-oh. Prior to reading this I noticed a drivetrain noise like a low grindy whistle has appeared in the last 5000 mi (starting @ 30 mph, quite audible by 70 mph), and a very faint rocks-in-coffee-can noise at very low speed. Dealer claimed the first was normal and didn't hear the second. Maybe by my next scheduled service it will be loud enough for them to hear. Or maybe I'm paranoid.

[ptjones]

They checked mine by putting it on the rack with someone in the car accelerating slightly  and then letting off the gas. You could hear the gear play in the transmission. It only took 400mi. from the start of hearing the noise and the mechanics easily hearing it.  It would seem that it will take quite awhile before something catastrophic happens. ;) 

 

Paul 

[rjam]

I don't have an answer for you (wish drdiesel was still around; he would have known).  My car was "born" in August of 2012 so it certainly had an early version of the transmission.

 

I can say, the easiest way for me to demonstrate the problem was to have the car coast very slowly (i.e. walking pace), in neutral, with the engine, radio, climate control, etc., all off.  I, and the dealer repairman, could clearly hear a grinding noise coming from the front of the car.  Rolling a tin can with loose gravel in it will make a similar sound.

 

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply! Hope mine is just the tires.

[FordService]

Hi how do you know if your 2013 cmax has this transmission listed on service buliton. Reference HF35. I have a thumping sound like that of a flat tire at most any speed.

Thanks

Hi rajames2, 

 

Do you have an appointment set up with your dealer to diagnose this? Please let me know, along with your mileage.

 

 

ptjones...  

 

Looks like I am in this boat. Uggg... So what do I tell (or ask) the service manager with regards to the 8y 100K coverage of the trans. Just want to be prepared! Any guidance here would be most helpful.

Uh-oh. Prior to reading this I noticed a drivetrain noise like a low grindy whistle has appeared in the last 5000 mi (starting @ 30 mph, quite audible by 70 mph), and a very faint rocks-in-coffee-can noise at very low speed. Dealer claimed the first was normal and didn't hear the second. Maybe by my next scheduled service it will be loud enough for them to hear. Or maybe I'm paranoid.

Hi guys,

 

I want to help roll these "rocks" away. Are your appointments already set up? Please let me know, along with your year and mileage. :)

 

Meagan

[rjam]

Hi rajames2, 

 

Do you have an appointment set up with your dealer to diagnose this? Please let me know, along with your mileage.

 

 Hi

I will call tomorrow. I have 49K miles on the car. I appreciate your help!!

Ralph

 

 

Hi guys,

 

I want to help roll these "rocks" away. Are your appointments already set up? Please let me know, along with your year and mileage. :)

Meagan

[FordService]

Hi

I will call tomorrow. I have 49K miles on the car. I appreciate your help!!

Ralph

Thanks, Ralph! Once your appointment is set up, please private message me with your VIN, best daytime phone number, full name, and dealer name/location. You're welcome! :D

 

Meagan

[rjam]

Hi

Sent you PM this morning with all the information

Have a great day!

Ralph

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Ralph! Once your appointment is set up, please private message me with your VIN, best daytime phone number, full name, and dealer name/location. You're welcome! :D

Meagan

[FordService]

Hi

Sent you PM this morning with all the information

Have a great day!

Ralph

Got 'em! :)

 

Meagan

[rjam]

Thank you for giving this your attention. Kendall Ford did a great job diagnosing and solving the problem. The issue turns out to be tires that had developed flat spots. Purchased four new tires and an alignment. The thump thump thump is now gone.

Transmission is fine!! Thank you Meagan. Could not have asked for any better service! I doubt any other car company would reach out as quickly as you have!!

[SnowStorm]

My tires have done the same thing (also did it on our Fit).  Tire dealer says they should be rotated every 5k miles.  The "undriven" tires tend to develope the flat spots.  In the "old days" it was the fronts, now its usually the rears.  Rotating back to front and driving several thousand miles can smooth things out somewhat but I'm still paying for not rotating often enough.  Had a couple of friends in the car the other day and one asked if I was running snow tires!  Not a good way to advertise the C-Max!  Also have some edge wear for not getting an alignment soon enough.  But at 64k+ miles on original tires I can't complain!