New C-Max from dealer w/damage

[kuklachica]

We bought our first C-Max this past Monday (Nov. 23rd). It was sold to us as NEW with 3 miles. We traded in our 10 year old Toyota Matrix (which we loved). When we arrived home, we realized there were some issues with the C-Max. Here is a list of the most problematic (also see pictures below list):

 

1. Rear driver side passenger door won't close without extra force. It stays ajar. It also creaks when it opens and closes, before it comes in contact with the framing.

 

2. Dent in the c pillar of the above mentioned door. Right next to the striker.

 

3. Oddly worn paint on the inside of the hatch door, about 4 inches below the glass/trim seam. This damage is identical on both sides of the hatch. The paint is stripped down to the primer, and the spot has been clearcoated.

 

4. Weather stripping/channel is almost completely coming off from one side of the hatch.

 

5. Scrapes and gouges on the interior plastic trim of the rear hatch

 

6. Hatch gate is misaligned. One side is higher than the other (see picture of tail light closeup)

 

7. Driver's door and rear passenger door are misaligned (rear door is lower than passenger door)

 

8. Gap sizes between panels are inconsistent on each side.

 

The dealer states that it wasn't in an accident (it only had 3 miles on it when we bought it). They put it on a lift to show us that the frame was in good shape (I don't know what I'm looking at, so I am going on their assessment). They said they didn't see any repair work. But they couldn't tell us why there were so many quality failures and damage. They said it is "minor." To me, it is unsettling that there are so many systemic issues. If it were a used car, I'd be concerned that it had been in an accident. The dealership is offering to rehang the panels, rehang the door, repaint the hatch, repair the weatherstripping, etc. Are these issues red flags? Should I be concerned, even after they re-align the panels, pop out the dent, etc.? I called and spoke with Ford regional rep, and she was not helpful in the least. She said it wasn't Ford's problem since we can't prove it happened at the factory, and was completely dismissive of my safety concerns.

 

How concerned should I be with these issues in a new C-Max?

 

 

[homestead]

Gee was this built on a friday afternoon, poor quality.  You can try running the vin to see if was in an accident or

take it to an independent body shop to get an unbiased opinion.

My rear door on drivers side is also harder to close but no noise.

[kuklachica]

Is there a way to run the VIN without spending $50 for one report? I haven't been able to figure out a way. Also, is there a way to figure out what day of the week it was built? I know it was built in Michigan in Sept. 2015, but that's it. I've brought it to a shop, but the local dealership contracts out to them. We live in a small town, with other surrounding small towns, so it is hard to find a GOOD shop that isn't already used by a local dealership. Right now our car is at the dealer and we have a loaner.

[ls973800]

I called and spoke with Ford regional rep, and she was not helpful in the least. She said it wasn't Ford's problem since we can't prove it happened at the factory, and was completely dismissive of my safety concerns.

 

 

What in addition to the cosmetic concerns you noted are the safety concerns?  If you told the rep the car was unsafe because of the quality issues you have noted, I can understand why she was dismissive of those concerns.

 

Hope you can get everything worked out to your satisfaction with the dealer and you can enjoy your new car.

[hybridbear]

Is there a way to run the VIN without spending $50 for one report? I haven't been able to figure out a way. Also, is there a way to figure out what day of the week it was built? I know it was built in Michigan in Sept. 2015, but that's it. I've brought it to a shop, but the local dealership contracts out to them. We live in a small town, with other surrounding small towns, so it is hard to find a GOOD shop that isn't already used by a local dealership. Right now our car is at the dealer and we have a loaner.

ETIS will show you the build date. It is displayed in dd/mm/yyyy format.

[kuklachica]

The car was assembled on a Wednesday.

 

Safety concerns i.e. did these defects indicate an accident? Twisted frame? If the exterior had this many defects, did the mechcanical parts also have similar poor quality workmanship? Did the dented c pillar affect the structure, or indicate a weld repair weak spot? Why were these things missed during QC inspection? Were other defects missed during QC inspection?

[homestead]

There are Ford rep's on site here you can PM to assist you with your car problem.

[obob]

There are Ford rep's on site here you can PM to assist you with your car problem.

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/user/1579-fordservice/

 

 

I hope you can get a resolution that works for you.

[rjam]

Since the car was built in September 2015 it couldnt have been on the lot long enough for the hatch, gasquet and door to show wear from opening and closing by perspective buyers. I wonder if it might have sustained damage in transport. Seems the hatch must really be out of alignment for the paint to be worn down. If you soke to the same regional Foed rep I spoke with about a rear main seal problem you are right she really does not give a rip. Hope you get it sqared away. Please keep us posted. I am sorry to hear taht getting a new car turned out to be a pain when it should be fun!

[CassidyB]

Welcome to Ford.. Buy some Vaseline...You are gonna get the green weiner.. Fit and finish on my 2013 sucks... I paid $ to have pieces aligned.. My dealer said it was within tolerance.. Three years of driving a car that sounds like a creaking pirate ship... Eventually you will get tired of visiting the dealer.. The people who built my car had to be drunk or on drugs... Ford you SUCK!

[kuklachica]

Thanks, everyone, for your input; I appreciate it.

 

So, the dealer acknowledges these things are problems. They are "fixing" them now, and have given me a loaner C-Max. They have opened a case with Ford. They've put their foot down when I've asked for a replacement. How hard should I push? I know it's my problem now. I felt pressured to buy this car. I wanted to look at the other one they had on the lot, but the salesman pretty much refused. Even told me it was a 2016 (which I later found out it wasn't). Told me it was too much and had no discount. I needed a car (we had already sold our other) and was over a barrel. I felt pushed into this one, even though I wanted to look at the other. It makes me more and more uneasy as I think of the whole transaction.

Would a twisted unibody be visible while it was up on the lift? They eye-balled it with a flashlight and declared it "fine". Should I be leery?

[kuklachica]

Picture of side that has closing issues.

 

Weird paint around "Ford" symbol?

[ls973800]

I felt pressured to buy this car. I wanted to look at the other one they had on the lot, but the salesman pretty much refused. Even told me it was a 2016 (which I later found out it wasn't). Told me it was too much and had no discount. I needed a car (we had already sold our other) and was over a barrel. I felt pushed into this one, even though I wanted to look at the other. It makes me more and more uneasy as I think of the whole transaction.

 

 

So you are now blaming the salesman for not showing you what you wanted, and you were pushed into this one? 

 

How big was the gun held to your head that forced you as the buyer to do what the salesman wanted you to do?

 

The uneasy part of the whole transaction is that you didn't use due diligence when making such a huge purchase.  Only yourself to blame in my opinion.

Edited November 29, 2015 by ls973800

[kuklachica]

Yes, I learned my lesson with not inspecting a car first. It didn't occurr to me to that I would have to inspect a new car. I guess I was naive. Not blaming the salesman. The observation was to illustrate that there might have been knowledge on the dealer's part and they wanted to get the car off their hands.

[obob]

I felt pressured to buy this car. I wanted to look at the other one they had on the lot, but the salesman pretty much refused. Even told me it was a 2016 (which I later found out it wasn't). Told me it was too much and had no discount. I needed a car (we had already sold our other) and was over a barrel. I felt pushed into this one, even though I wanted to look at the other. It makes me more and more uneasy as I think of the whole transaction.

 

 

So you are now blaming the salesman for not showing you what you wanted, and you were pushed into this one? 

 

How big was the gun held to your head that forced you as the buyer to do what the salesman wanted you to do?

 

The uneasy part of the whole transaction is that you didn't use due diligence when making such a huge purchase.  Only yourself to blame in my opinion.

 

Basically this reminds me that no matter how friendly the dealer seems, or how trustworthy they sound, or how high a reputation their ratings reflect, whether it be service or parts or sales, a dealer is a danger zone.  They are the hunters and I am the prey.

 

Though "Only yourself to blame" I don't agree with.

Edited November 29, 2015 by obob

[markd]

I bought my 2014 sel with hail damage and the dealer shaved ten grand off the price, even with a few dents it's the best made new car I've ever owned. Nobody can make you buy something you don't want.

Edited November 29, 2015 by markd

[plus 3 golfer]

Basically this reminds me that no matter how friendly the dealer seems, or how trustworthy they sound, or how high a reputation their ratings reflect, whether it be service or parts or sales, a dealer is a danger zone.  They are the hunters and I am the prey.

 

Though "Only yourself to blame" I don't agree with.

Exactly.  If I sense dishonesty, I will "bait" them and treat them as "prey."  Problem though there's a lot of consumers who "trust" manufacturers, dealers and so forth and believe they would never "deceive" the consumer.  Caveat Emptor    ;)

 

Hope Ford / dealer comes "clean" and "takes care of" your issues kuklachica

[C-MaxSea]

Our sympathy & support Kuklachica. Sure hope you get it resolved.

 

The buying process is certainly flawed and hazardous (as are all of our cars !).  It is indeed buyer beware !   We too discovered some 'hidden damage" in our C-Max after purchase.  When we 'inspected' ours prior to / at  delivery (yikes, certainly not enough time or expertise to inspect it thoroughly), we noted a couple minor 'beauty' marks.  Most of those were taken care by the dealer immediately. Then we discovered some 'minor' body damage thanks to a very good detail shop.  Our dealer stepped up and took care of it - but we controlled the situation by demanding our own body shop take care of it.  We never paid a penny (the bill went directly to the dealer) and had a terrific result.  The dealer even gave us a free maintenance plan as a goodwill gesture.

 

Push the dealer hard now and stay strong on the significant stuff, but remember none of our cars is perfect.  Stay kind and considerate too, determined smiles can work wonders on occasion.

 

Nick

Edited December 1, 2015 by C-MaxSea

[fbov]

In reading through all this, I'm seeing a lot of fit and finish issues, and that's about it. Door and panel alignment should be right from the factory, but receiving inspection is still part of normal car delivery process. Cosmetic issues are cosmetic, not functional. I generally find the first service for a new car, they'll fix just about anything.

 

Now, if there were functional issues - failure to start, strange loud noises, malfunction indicators flashing, or the like - we'd be having a very different conversation, and I'll bet Ford would too. At least, they did when my Restraints Control Module shorted out and the dash lit up because the air bag system was off.

 

My hope is you get past this little stuff, and get to enjoying what remains, for me, a wonderful car after 40K miles and 27 months.

 

Have fun,

Frank

[kuklachica]

I admit, I get hung up on the "little thing" of my rear passenger door not closing completely (it always sounds like the window is open several inches). The dent in the c-pillar seems to trip me up, too. I also can't seem to "get past" the "little thing" of the hatch sitting cockeyed and not closing completely, nor the patches of missing paint along with dirt in the paint. I've tried to make peace with the fact that the two auto body shops I've brought it to say that these "defects" looks like accident damage. It is a shortcoming of mine that I have reservations about being sold a car with three miles that has more damage than my 2005 trade-in did (and that I never considered a new car would be in worse condition).  I should just grin and bear it and hope-to-God that the robots who put the wheels on were having a better day than the rest of the assembly line that day.

[Marc Smith]

I could understand not seeing noticing the door issue on a post delivery inspection.  but a dent in the c pillar  should have been easy to spot and point out, just like the weatherstripping and scratches on the interior body panels.

 

Weather stripping coming off would be a warranty fix.  and if the doors and hatches are out of alignment  it should also be an easy warranty fix..   most hinges have the ability to be shimmed or adjusted. The holes are usually oblong/elongated  to allow for better fitment.

 

the pic you took of the ford emblem stamped into door frame.  mine looks just like as well.  maybe a double stamp from the factory press..

 

In regards to body panel fitment

 

You have to remember  that you did not buy a rolls royce that had body panels fitted by meticulous craftsmen.  you bought a ford built by "robots" and union labor..

 

I'd  spend 50 bucks on a car fax.  while its not the bible.  it may show something.  Heck you just bought the car from a dealer,  they would by all means have a carfax service  maybe ask them.

 

Ask you insurance company they might be able to run one.

 

the scratched in the interior body panels  would be hard to prove one way or the other as to if you did it or it came that way.

 

I see a lot of stuff that could easily be fixed under warranty...

[kuklachica]

The dealer has refused to provide a loaner for the remainder of the repairs. So my car has been on the shop since Friday, 11/27. As of yesterday they hadn't done any work on it. No communication or updates about the status of repairs. GM's voicemail box was full. I requested a letter stating that the work was not being done due to an accident and that it had not been in an accident at the factory, in transit, or at dealer. The documentation would be used for future trade-in or sale, in case it some how shows up on carfax or repairs are noticeable. The dealership's response was to take back the loaner because it was given out of "kindness and courtesy". So now I won't be able to get to my medical appointments during the next ??? days (whenever they decide to start work on it). Great service, Ford. Send a car to a dealership with lots of workmanship defects, avoid confirming that it wasn't in an accident, and punish the customer by taking back loaner. Dealership and Ford both know I have active medical complications. Great strategy to assure customer satisfaction, Ford.

[Kelleytoons]

Report the dealer to the Better Business Bureau -- will absolutely not help you, but may help the next poor soul.

 

Also on any social media (the dealership is likely to have a Facebook page, and there's Yelp, etc.)  Make sure your comments are pointed and specific as to why you are posted such negative reviews.  It's surprising how powerful such negative results are (again, most likely will have zero impact in your own case, but we MUST think as a global community.  I, for one, would want to know about such a bad dealership in my neighborhood).

[hybridbear]

A comment regarding dealers & damaged vehicles. In summer 2014 I helped a good friend buy a Fusion SE. I helped him research online to find one in stock that was what he wanted & then to work out pricing. The preferred dealer to buy from has signs all over their building, promising that they'll match the price of any other local dealer for a car with identical features. We found a Fusion SE base for about $500 below invoice at another local dealer that we desperately wanted to avoid buying from due to prior bad experiences. The dealer with the price matching policy refused to match the price. Thus we ended up going to the dealer that is known for terrible service to buy the car. After completing all the paperwork we went outside with the salesman for the final walk-around & inspection. The car was "new", but had about 250 miles on it already. It wasn't originally shipped to from the factory to the dealer he purchased the car from. During the inspection we discovered that it appeared that the car had been in a fender bender. The left front headlight was cracked, the bumper just below the headlight was cracked & the grille was cracked. We pointed these issues out to the salesman. He went back inside & got the form they use to document issues at the time of new car delivery. He made a list of the issues & we took photographs. He then gave us a copy of the form & kept one. My friend made an appointment to bring the car back to the dealer the following week for repairs. He brought the car back & they provided him with a loaner at no charge. It took the dealer about 3 days to complete the body work. The car was as good as new when they were done & he's now been driving it for 18 months without a single trip to the dealer except for oil changes.

 

My guess is that the car was being sold cheaply because of the damage & that the dealer hoped that the buyer would drive it off the lot without noticing. I'm sure that if we hadn't noticed before leaving the lot that they would not have repaired the damage on their dime. Dealerships are staffed by very slimy characters. This is one pro in favor of the Tesla sales model.

The dealer has refused to provide a loaner for the remainder of the repairs. So my car has been on the shop since Friday, 11/27. As of yesterday they hadn't done any work on it. No communication or updates about the status of repairs. GM's voicemail box was full. I requested a letter stating that the work was not being done due to an accident and that it had not been in an accident at the factory, in transit, or at dealer. The documentation would be used for future trade-in or sale, in case it some how shows up on carfax or repairs are noticeable. The dealership's response was to take back the loaner because it was given out of "kindness and courtesy". So now I won't be able to get to my medical appointments during the next ??? days (whenever they decide to start work on it). Great service, Ford. Send a car to a dealership with lots of workmanship defects, avoid confirming that it wasn't in an accident, and punish the customer by taking back loaner. Dealership and Ford both know I have active medical complications. Great strategy to assure customer satisfaction, Ford.

Why did you give the loaner back to them? How did you get home after returning the loaner? Sounds like you could have had more leverage in this situation. Have you contacted user FordService like was suggested a number of days ago?

 

I'd  spend 50 bucks on a car fax.  while its not the bible.  it may show something.  Heck you just bought the car from a dealer,  they would by all means have a carfax service  maybe ask them.

 

Ask you insurance company they might be able to run one.

What would a Carfax show on a car with 3 miles. The OP said the car had 3 miles on the odometer when purchased.

 

Report the dealer to the Better Business Bureau -- will absolutely not help you, but may help the next poor soul.

 

Also on any social media (the dealership is likely to have a Facebook page, and there's Yelp, etc.)  Make sure your comments are pointed and specific as to why you are posted such negative reviews.  It's surprising how powerful such negative results are (again, most likely will have zero impact in your own case, but we MUST think as a global community.  I, for one, would want to know about such a bad dealership in my neighborhood).

These are good suggestions, I bolded the lines that I think are the most important of your excellent recommendations. Sites like www.dealerrater.com may also be helpful.

[obob]

I admit, I get hung up on the "little thing" of my rear passenger door not closing completely (it always sounds like the window is open several inches). The dent in the c-pillar seems to trip me up, too. I also can't seem to "get past" the "little thing" of the hatch sitting cockeyed and not closing completely, nor the patches of missing paint along with dirt in the paint. I've tried to make peace with the fact that the two auto body shops I've brought it to say that these "defects" looks like accident damage. It is a shortcoming of mine that I have reservations about being sold a car with three miles that has more damage than my 2005 trade-in did (and that I never considered a new car would be in worse condition).  I should just grin and bear it and hope-to-God that the robots who put the wheels on were having a better day than the rest of the assembly line that day.

I think your expectations are not unreasonable.  My take is that sometimes people who get paid commissions have a skewed sense of what is OK, like trying to take a bone away from a dog.