EV problems

[Buggs1a]

I have a concern about my car and questions. I'm better with writing then I am talking because I can think more clearly.

 

I've read articles and seen videos about people getting up to about 40 mpg in my car. 2013 C Max Hybrid SEL. Video shows EV on when accelerating and going fast. My concern is that I am not sure my car is working as it should when it comes to EV. Here's why.

 

My car does not say EV very often. I'm not going fast. I'm not pushing hard on the gas. I'm not going up hill. Yet EV does not show most of the time.

 

In the touch screen it has that screen that shows you the car and tells you what is going on with the battery and engine. It will sometimes say I am using electric but the gauge behind the steering wheel does not show EV. Also in that touch screen screen it will say I'm running in gas because I'm accelerating. I don't understand this because even going 15 miles per hr and gently pushing on the gas pedal it should still use electric. What's the point then of having electric when it's only used when stopped fully and sometimes when coasting? Yes that's right. I said sometimes. A lot of the time I coast the gauge behind the steering wheel will not show EV.

 

My understanding is when below a certain speed it's on electric. Unless you're pushing the car hard with hard accelerating or up a big hill. But other then that it should be in electric. I drive 30 mph or less or so and not pushing hard at all on the gas pedal. It should be electric. But more then half the time it's not.

 

I think the gauge behind the steering wheel is not working correctly maybe. Why? Because it doesn't say EV when the touchscreen shows I'm running in electric sometimes. Or the touchscreen is not accurate. And I think something is going on with the car being it's not in EV mode when I think it should be.

 

I know I don't really know much about this technology. I'm ignorant or something. But I do know what I've seen in a video and what I've read about it and of course my own opinion and how I drive.

 

I'm confused big time. I'm trying to drive so I'm in electric ev mode but it seems I can't do anything to do that. It's all over the place. Also sometimes it will not say ev and then I'll take my foot off the gas for a second. Then ev shows. Then I'll push the gas a little and ev stays on for a tiny bit. That seems weird.

[raadsel]

I have a concern about my car and questions. I'm better with writing then I am talking because I can think more clearly.

 

I've read articles and seen videos about people getting up to about 40 mpg in my car. 2013 C Max Hybrid SEL. Video shows EV on when accelerating and going fast. My concern is that I am not sure my car is working as it should when it comes to EV. Here's why.

 

My car does not say EV very often. I'm not going fast. I'm not pushing hard on the gas. I'm not going up hill. Yet EV does not show most of the time.

 

In the touch screen it has that screen that shows you the car and tells you what is going on with the battery and engine. It will sometimes say I am using electric but the gauge behind the steering wheel does not show EV. Also in that touch screen screen it will say I'm running in gas because I'm accelerating. I don't understand this because even going 15 miles per hr and gently pushing on the gas pedal it should still use electric. What's the point then of having electric when it's only used when stopped fully and sometimes when coasting? Yes that's right. I said sometimes. A lot of the time I coast the gauge behind the steering wheel will not show EV.

 

My understanding is when below a certain speed it's on electric. Unless you're pushing the car hard with hard accelerating or up a big hill. But other then that it should be in electric. I drive 30 mph or less or so and not pushing hard at all on the gas pedal. It should be electric. But more then half the time it's not.

 

I think the gauge behind the steering wheel is not working correctly maybe. Why? Because it doesn't say EV when the touchscreen shows I'm running in electric sometimes. Or the touchscreen is not accurate. And I think something is going on with the car being it's not in EV mode when I think it should be.

 

I know I don't really know much about this technology. I'm ignorant or something. But I do know what I've seen in a video and what I've read about it and of course my own opinion and how I drive.

 

I'm confused big time. I'm trying to drive so I'm in electric ev mode but it seems I can't do anything to do that. It's all over the place. Also sometimes it will not say ev and then I'll take my foot off the gas for a second. Then ev shows. Then I'll push the gas a little and ev stays on for a tiny bit. That seems weird.

 

My first question is if you've had the various recalls done? You can check them out for your car at owner.ford.com, or some here would recommend etis.ford.com (etis doesn't require a log in but some information will display incorrectly, such as likely showing your Hybrid as an Energi, as it is a Ford Europe site).

 

Next, to try to give a small tutorial -- when you start the car, the first time the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) turns on it will want to stay on until it has warmed up to it's normal operating temperature. So, the first few minutes after your ICE starts the car will not go into EV mode -- even if you are driving using the Electric motor (such as in reverse). This is worse in the winter; the cabin heater uses heat from the ICE to heat the cabin, so the ICE will stay on longer, or keep turning on more frequently to get warm enough to heat the cabin and to stay at that temperature (since the cold air it is warming will cool the engine). On short trips, say less than 10 minutes, your car will not spend a lot of time in EV mode as the ICE will be on for several minutes -- and this is worse when temperatures are below 70, particularly if the heater is on.

 

Once the ICE is up to temperature, it will start turning off and on based on the state of charge in the battery. At this point, at speeds around 30-45 mph you should be able to get stay in EV mode 50% of the time (or even more). As your speeds get higher, you won't be able to stay in EV as long as the higher speeds will drain the battery faster. If you watch the videos and read the posts on this thread, and there are other threads in that area of the forum that also may be helpful.

[Tom]

A factor in having a  C-Max not go into EV mode quickly is the heater setting for the passenger compartment.  If your temperture setting is at the high end, you ICE will have to run more often and stay on longer to achieve and keep the temperature you may have chosen.  I run mine at 68 in cold weather and get in the high 30s mpg. Low to mid 40s in warmer weather even using AC a lot.

[fbov]

Welcome, and I hope you enjoy your 2013. I have the same car, and my lifetime average is 41.1 MPG, despite true winters (ice storm forecast tonight). However, when asked what mileage I get, I normally say "between 30 and 60 MPG."

- You'll get low 30's if you are driving in cold weather, doing a lot of high-speed highway driving, have high rolling resistance tires, or are a Consumers Union jackrabbit driver. 

- You/ll get to 60's in warm (no AC) weather, at city/rural speeds, over well-known terrain, using low RR tires at ~50 psi, grill blocks,  premium no-ethanol fuel and knowledge of the car's tendencies.  

 

That last part comes from looking at the most-advantageous dashboard display. The options in the left dash area cycle among 4 options and a custom setting. Only two really help you. 

- Inform

- Enlighten

- Engage

- Empower: Power (with engine on/off threshold) + Avg Fuel Economy + Battery Gauge + Fuel Gauge

- MyView (custom): set to show Tach RPM and Coolant Temp. 

 

The most important thing about Empower is the "engine on/off threshold," a blue outline around the throttle setting display. When your throttle setting falls inside the blue outline, the system will turn off the engine and run on EV. As soon as you exceed the threshold, the engine starts. 

 

You will quickly notice that the threshold depends on the car's speed, and the amount of charge available from the battery. My general approach is to accelerate slowly uphill while charging, then glide down hill under EV power as far as possible. Others do better and worse than me, so it's not rocket science!

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

Oh, and in the event you speak this language, here's a diagram for how you can use energy driving this car. Thinking like this helps me. Maybe it helps you, too. 

 

 

 

[homestead]

Its not easy to get higher mpg until you learn to brake so that you always get in high 90's percent.

And then accelerate to your crusing speed and then keep a VERY light foot on the accelerator until you run down the HVB.

If you are taking lots of short trips that will kill your mpg as the car isn't warmed up.

If it is cold outside use the seat heaters until the car warms up or the car will force the ICE to run to supply the cabin heat.

While you are learning to drive for higher mpg's you can initialize the mpg display on the steering wheel controls to give you 

immediate feedback on how you are doing on each trip.  I am getting about 45mpg lifetime and about 50 in the summer and 40 in the winter.

If you have a choice on how to get to a destination take the 45mph streets rather than the freeway and it will improve your mpg.

Good luck!

[Buggs1a]

Thanks all.

Sorry I not responded till now. Busy and not sleeping well.

I’ll post more later but will say now that my car fax is clean and says no recalls.

[Buggs1a]

Should I let the car warm up before driving? That’s what it sounds like. But Ford says not to. I don’t remember where I read that.

 

Here’s an example of how ev is so weird.

 

I’ll go to my parents two days in a row. One day the car says total trip 2.9 miles. That’s how far they are. 1.1 mike in ev. Is this good? The next day it says 2.9 miles with 0.3 miles in ev. Why such a huge difference? I drove the same way. I don’t push hard on bags. Break in the 90s usually. I don’t get it.

 

I live in Washington state. Burien. Part of the greater Seattle area. King county.

[Buggs1a]

Should I let the car warm up before driving? That’s what it sounds like. But Ford says not to. I don’t remember where I read that.

 

Here’s an example of how ev is so weird.

 

I’ll go to my parents two days in a row. One day the car says total trip 2.9 miles. That’s how far they are. 1.1 mike in ev. Is this good? The next day it says 2.9 miles with 0.3 miles in ev. Why such a huge difference? I drove the same way. I don’t push hard on bags. Break in the 90s usually. I don’t get it.

 

I live in Washington state. Burien. Part of the greater Seattle area. King county.

[ptjones]

Should I let the car warm up before driving? That’s what it sounds like. But Ford says not to. I don’t remember where I read that.

 

Here’s an example of how ev is so weird.

 

I’ll go to my parents two days in a row. One day the car says total trip 2.9 miles. That’s how far they are. 1.1 mike in ev. Is this good? The next day it says 2.9 miles with 0.3 miles in ev. Why such a huge difference? I drove the same way. I don’t push hard on bags. Break in the 90s usually. I don’t get it.

 

I live in Washington state. Burien. Part of the greater Seattle area. King county.

Don't waste gas warming up the car, It does help to use block /Oil pan heaters. The difference in MPG's for such a short distance is the SOC(State of Charge) of HVB, the higher it is the more EVing you can do.  Please look at my You Tube videos mentioned in Post #2 or thread "How to get great gas mileage in a CMAX" and it will answer all your questions. :)

 

Paul

[Buggs1a]

I saw your vids. _^^^^^^

I don’t get it. My car won’t be in ev when I start it and take off. It takes awhile. This seems like it needs to be warmed up. And it’s not using much gas when sitting and warming up after you turn it on.

 

Please will someone answer this directly?

 

Shouldn’t you be in ev mode from turning on the car till you go uphil, push hard on gas or go past a certain speed? If not why ? Is hybrid totally different then what I just asked? I have always assumed with hybrid you’re using electric mode unless the above question conditions were met. This seems wrong. I’m confused.

 

Does the battery not have enough power to go past 15 mph when going? I know it can be in electric faster but I don’t understand this it only runs in electric up to 15 mph then switches to gas.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Buggs1a

[raadsel]

I saw your vids. _^^^^^^

I don’t get it. My car won’t be in ev when I start it and take off. It takes awhile. This seems like it needs to be warmed up. And it’s not using much gas when sitting and warming up after you turn it on.

 

Please will someone answer this directly?

 

Shouldn’t you be in ev mode from turning on the car till you go uphil, push hard on gas or go past a certain speed? If not why ? Is hybrid totally different then what I just asked? I have always assumed with hybrid you’re using electric mode unless the above question conditions were met. This seems wrong. I’m confused.

 

Does the battery not have enough power to go past 15 mph when going? I know it can be in electric faster but I don’t understand this it only runs in electric up to 15 mph then switches to gas.

 

From what I can think of, there are two conditions that cause the ICE to start just after turning on the car. The first is if the battery is too low, then the ICE will immediately start to recharge the battery. And because of EV+, where the car keeps the car in EV mode as you approach commonly visited locations (such as your house), it intentionally tries to keep the battery charge somewhat low when you turn off the car (to improve the battery life).

 

The second reason is if you have the heater turned on -- the ICE will start since that is what provides the heat for the climate control system. Many here intentionally turn the climate control off before it starts the engine, and rely on the seat heaters to help keep them warm, so the ICE will not turn on when they first start the car.

[homestead]

When it is very cold my ICE will start immediately even with heat turned off.

[ptjones]

You do need to light foot it to keep it in EV, it would be interesting to video you starting out in the morning to see your SOC and Power demand to get a feel for what's going on.

In the morning I have no problem EV it to 35mph when the ICE turns on for the first time to lube the Trans and get the WT to 128*F.  Typically SOC needs to be 45% or higher.  After that with 60% SOC I can get up to 50mph, but not quickly. :) As long as you keep the blue Empower Bar below the max EV power available blue line the car will stay in EV. 

 

Paul 

[Buggs1a]

I drove last night to Safeway. 5am. No ev at all. It’s 0.7 miles away.

When I came home I put the touch screen on the screen that shows the car. It said gas on because of heater. So I turned off heater down below by pushing the on off button. Then ev was on the whole way home pretty much. It was maybe 40* outside. When I shut off my car it said 0.7 mile total. 0.5 in ev mode. Is that good?

 

Seems the heater being on is why my car won’t be in ev mode when I first turn it on. But why does it go to ev mode later when the heater is still on if it’s on when I first start the car then leave?It’s set 68* both zone.

 

Is the battery for driving too small to run the heater and be in ev mode? Ford should have put in a bigger stronger battery to let us drive in electric more. Or is that why there’s the energi car?

 

Is it possible to charge the battery by installing something? Like a mod that would keep it over say 75%? Then maybe it could be in ev more?

 

What does it take to accelerate at a decent clip and still be in ev mode?

 

When no ev mode and I got to Safeway it said mpg was 11.4. That’s horrible.

[kyledamron1]

So, when you first start your car, and your heat is on, it needs to use the heat produced from the engine as quickly as possible to warm up your car. It's similar to a car with stop/start where if you first start it up it needs to warm up first.

So, with the C-Max, once the engine kicks on, the oil temp, or radiator temp, I don't remember which one it is, but one of them has to reach 128 degrees F. This is the warm-up cycle for the engine, after this, the vehicle is allowed to return to EV operation. You should be able to cruise with the heater running and be in EV mode, this depends on the battery's stage of charge, the outside temperature, the temperature your heater is set to etc. If you have heated seats, those are going to be more efficient than using the traditional heater in the vehicle that uses your engine heat like a traditional vehicle.

The battery is a 1.4KwH battery, it should allow you to cruise, but it's actually more efficient to accelerate using the gasoline engine. You don't really want to accelerate in EV as it takes a lot of energy to accelerate, but not a lot to cruise. So the tried-and-true method of accelerating for best fuel economy is to go up to around 15 miles an hour in EV mode, and then use the 2-bar method on the Empower screen and go to your cruising speed. Accelerating purely in EV is very inefficient.

 

[raadsel]

I drove last night to Safeway. 5am. No ev at all. It’s 0.7 miles away.

When I came home I put the touch screen on the screen that shows the car. It said gas on because of heater. So I turned off heater down below by pushing the on off button. Then ev was on the whole way home pretty much. It was maybe 40* outside. When I shut off my car it said 0.7 mile total. 0.5 in ev mode. Is that good?

 

Seems the heater being on is why my car won’t be in ev mode when I first turn it on. But why does it go to ev mode later when the heater is still on if it’s on when I first start the car then leave?It’s set 68* both zone.

 

Is the battery for driving too small to run the heater and be in ev mode? Ford should have put in a bigger stronger battery to let us drive in electric more. Or is that why there’s the energi car?

 

Is it possible to charge the battery by installing something? Like a mod that would keep it over say 75%? Then maybe it could be in ev more?

 

What does it take to accelerate at a decent clip and still be in ev mode?

 

When no ev mode and I got to Safeway it said mpg was 11.4. That’s horrible.

 

First, when you start your car, once the ICE is started, it will stay on until it hits it has warmed up. So, on a short trip (less than a mile) when the engine is cold, the engine will likely be on the entire trip.

 

Second, the climate control uses the heat from the engine to heat the car, so if you start the car when "cold", if the climate control is on it will start the ICE almost immediately. Once the ICE is hot enough, the car can go into EV mode -- though in the winter that length is shortened, as the cold air going into the engine will cool it, and require it to turn on again. 

 

So, on the way to the store the ICE was on because the heater turned it on. Once you turned the heater off, the engine remained on because it hadn't warmed up yet. On the way home, the engine became warm enough for you to drive in EV mode -- so you drove in EV mode all the way home. And this is the way any hybrid (non-plug in) will act on this short a trip, if many of your trips are this short you likely would do better with a plug-in hybrid (such as the C-Max Energi). The Energi has an electric heater, as well as the battery that can be charged for plugging in.

[Buggs1a]

I don’t have anyway to plug in a car.

[stolenmoment]

That's too bad; all you need is a 20A 120v socket within about 30' of a parking space.

[Buggs1a]

I can’t afford it either. My parents got me the Acura 2004 mdx Touring back on feb 10. I don’t like a couple issues it has. My dad took it for a test drive. Came back and said he looooves it and wants to make me a deal. So after thinking on it he offered me $10k and would buy me a replacement car but anything over $10k I have to pay back. So I got the cmax. I need the hybrid for gas mileage. I am on disability so I don’t get much money. Less gas the better. In the Acura MDX I had I’d fill up about 150-170 miles or so. That’s highway driving. So with the cmax I can get double that basically. Hopefully I’ll learn to drive better and get 400 miles on one tank.

[jestevens]

My two cents are that maybe the gauge you are looking needs changed - if you set it to MyView as described in other comments then set the first half to Empower and the second half to the "Coach" you should be able to see from the hybrid Coach how well you are doing on the different categories of things you can control to get the most MPG out of your hybrid.  The Empower gauge I know for sure shows "EV" at the bottom most of the time the car is idle or under light acceleration or coasting, unless of course the engine is cold or the heater is running as others have said.

 

My contribution is whether or not the vehicle is using low rolling resistance tires?  LRRs make a big difference in allowing the hybrid to coast vs. -always- having to be "light on the gas" just to get it to move down the road.  If you accelerate to say 30 MPH and take your foot off gas, does your vehicle coast okay if you just put a light pressure on the accelerator?  You should be able to maintain just a very light pressure on the accelerator and it will maintain the 30MPH on "EV", or do does it exhibit a LOT of drag while coasting, as in it immediately slows down and the gas engine is coming on all the time?  If someone put the wrong kind of tires on it makes a big difference.

Other than that, like someone else said a high voltage battery with a low state of charge will kick in the engine just to charge the battery.  If the battery is nearing end of life the useful charge in the battery will reduce.  I haven't heard of many C-MAX with this issue yet though.  It was starting to happen with my 2007 Prius before I traded that in.

 

Also bear in mind that the battery capacity in the Hybrid isn't the same as a full electric car, you are only going to be able to go a couple of miles on full electric before the engine kicks in, on the gas hybrid version it also kicks in the lubricate the transmission somehow too.

 

The battery on the hybrid is used more to level out engine RPMs and to provide power assist to the engine - it will make a 4 cylinder car seem like it has 6 cylinder power. 

 

You should still be able to get around 40MPG as long as the outside temps are say, 45F and above without trying too hard once you get the hang of it.  Driving a hybrid is all about coasting, everything is set up to make it easy to coast at city speeds.  You should give it enough gas to accelerate smoothly/briskly to whatever the average speed of the road is and then back off the gas a little bit, at which point the car will start to coast on EV as long as there isn't a major incline in the road.  Paul's videos seem to show two white bars in the empower gauge as the optimum amount of RPMs/throttle to use under engine power but of course you have to always pay attention to safe road conditions foremost, don't hypermile to the point that it causes a traffic hazard for other drivers on a two lane road, etc.

 

Before too long you may learn to judge the timing of red lights vs when they turn green, because to a degree when you step on the brake the battery is getting a charge from regenerative braking, so unfortunately you may ride the brake a little or coast a bit instead of coming to an abrupt stop when approaching a red light to help augment the battery charging.

 

When you are at highway speeds the engine will almost always be running since it is a requirement of the way the transaxle is built, in a few circumstances I've been able to go short distances all electric at highway speeds - like on level highway - as soon as it hits an incline the RPM slows down, the car anticipates that you'll need power to climb the hill based on throttle input and switches on the ICE.

Edited April 19, 2018 by jestevens

[ptjones]

I just made a trip to Orlando, FL and back using I-75/I-4 FWY and averaged 54 mpg, temps 60-90*F, some A/C and EV 57.5% of the time.  Watch my "How to get great gas mileage in a CMAX YouTube videos: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/6568-how-to-drive-a-cmax-hybridffh-to-get-great-gas-mileage/

 

Paul

[Buggs1a]

I have already seen your vids. ^^^

 

I’m getting better. I just drove 22 miles on I-405 north and south in Washington state. Horrific traffic. Worse then city driving. Stop and go for more then half the trip on freeway. I got 49.9 mpg for my trip home. But most of that was way easy since I could only go 5-20 mph and stop a lot. How annoying. On the trip to where I was going it was in the 40 - 45 mpg range. Same stop and go but a bit more driving a bit faster.

 

So I’m slowly starting to get it. I just wish the battery was a lot bigger to be in electric more.

 

And acceleration is so incredibly slow if I want to stay in ev mode.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Buggs1a

[jestevens]

That's great, hybrids love traffic, but yes, a hybrid isn't an actual electric car.  Some of them, like the Energi version of the C-MAX have a bigger battery pack but ultimately you are still using gas, just not all the time and the battery helps even out the load on the engine to make the engine more efficient.  I still love them, relatively smooth, quiet, lots of torque, manufacturer usually loads them up with options to sell at a higher price point (at least when you buy new)..and 40MPG on a routine basis is still double what a typical gasoline powered car would do.

Edited April 20, 2018 by jestevens

[stolenmoment]

Yeah, that's why I went with the Energi; my commute is well within electric range.

[cr08]

That's great, hybrids love traffic, but yes, a hybrid isn't an actual electric car.  Some of them, like the Energi version of the C-MAX have a bigger battery pack but ultimately you are still using gas, just not all the time and the battery helps even out the load on the engine to make the engine more efficient.  I still love them, relatively smooth, quiet, lots of torque, manufacturer usually loads them up with options to sell at a higher price point (at least when you buy new)..and 40MPG on a routine basis is still double what a typical gasoline powered car would do.

I don't quite like the comment 'isn't an actual electric car' on PHEV's. Get too many EV Purists out there who bash PHEV's with this exact reasoning. It really should be seen as a short/mid-range EV with hybrid backup for range. In my case during normal commutes in my Energi I never use any gas during a normal day. In fact Ford has programmed the Energi to run the engine to use stale gas if the engine hasn't been used for I believe a full year. A -YEAR- with no ICE usage!